| T O P I C R E V I E W |
AT A TOTAL LOSS Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 12:02:11 PM
I have copied and pasted my two most dreaded e-mails to PPP here. I an "at a total loss" because I have no clue what went wrong here. This was one of the single most horrifying experiences for me. I am a big animal lover. I am a beagle breeder also. I have always been able to take the best care of all of my animals. Both of my hamsters lived for like 3 years, with a life expectancy of 1-2 years, I'd say I did extremely well. Can anyone help me figure this out. Is there something I did wrong? Is there something in my house? I have a parakeet who is perfectly healthy! Please does anyone have any answers for me? Thanks!
Our 1st baby Dixie:
We just bought her on Monday August 24th in Woodbridge, NJ at the mall. She has been fine all week. She was drinking and eating her apple and her pellets and eating her vitamins off the apple slice. She was not showing any signs of illness. She was not vomiting and had no diarreah. Then suddenly on Saturday August 29th she died. My three children and my husband and I are heart broken. We had already grown to love her so much. What could have gone wrong? Is this a common problem that this might happen? Could she have been sick and show no signs? We are very hurt and distressed. Please write me back as soon as possible.
Our 2nd baby Bugzy:
I am in need of guidance. I feel discouraged. The friendly sugar glider associates made this sound so easy. What am I doing wrong?
This is my second sugar glider in this past month. Our first one "Dixie" died after just four days. She was doing so well. Eating (devouring) her apple and drinking and eating her glider chow. She was very alert. She always seemed to be awake. Very "chattery" and even rambunctious. Then very suddenly she died. They could only guess that it may have somehow been toxic poisoning.
I e-mailed and got a return call from Adam. He told me this was a very rare occurance. He said it should be ok to get a new glider.
We went to the next available location. We picked a boy this time hoping things would go differently. We brought "Bugzy" home this past Saturday afternoon. He was good for the most part. Much calmer than Dixie was. However, he didn't seem to be eating his apple. He also seems to be sleeping alot. Not very alert. Yesterday I mixed up the yogurt/pepto mix thinking that he needed something extra since he was not eating alot of apple. Then last night he started to develop diarrhea. We mixed up the ERM. We were hand feeding him these two concoctions.
This morning I noticed that he seemed lethargic and he was "grungy looking". I contacted the local vet right away and they referred me to a vet who deals with exotics. I couldn't get an appointment until 3:30pm. While waiting for the vet appt. he started vomiting. He was very stinky from the diarrhea. The vet said he was "slightly dehydrated". He gave him "some fluids". I guess this would be what you refer to as a "hydro shot". He prescribed Flagyl susp. One drop, once daily, for 10 days. They did a fecal exam, which came back negative for parasites.
I am racking my brain trying to figure out what is wrong. I have alot of questions now.
1) Are the dogs (I have three beagles) and the bird (parakeet) and the cats (I have two) stressing him out?
-they say you should keep them in the center of attention where everyone is, this is what I did.
2) Should I have the cage in a WARMER room (maybe with a space heater) alone where he can de-stress?
-I have the cage set up in the dining room (open area, center of the house)
3) Should I keep the cage covered with a blanket or sheet to keep him warm and under less stress?
-I have a sheet just over the top and draping down one side right now
4) What type of apple is best?
-I am giving him Macintosh
5) How much should he be eating and drinking?
-I am supplying the outlined chow, apple, bread, 50/50 gatorade & water, which he does not eat/drink much of
6) How much should he be sleeping?
-he is sleeping ALOT
7) How much, how soon should we be carrying him around in his pouch?
-we started this for a few hours at a time (1-3 hours), 3-4 times per day, on day three
I know these are alot of questions. I just want to know if I am doing anything wrong here. Also, if there is anything I could try differently to get him better faster. I feel terrible that he is sick. I am hoping the medicine and the concoctions will kick in and I will see a turn around really soon. Please let me know what else I can do to help him. Thank you in advance for your consideration and patience.
After all of this, He died one week after we got him on Saturday night. 
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
Sugar Mama Posted - Aug 30 2010 : 08:48:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JeremyLexie
I didnt realize that. I think some of the information pocket pets tell is accurate but some if plain stupid. Mine like the pelleted diet and PPP is not the only that sells the pellets. Several companies do. I realized after I got them how bad a company they are. I have discontinued the heat rock but the do have a ceramic heat lamp that gives a bit of heat. I have the AC very high in the summer and they are still very small. I guess I am just a horrible parent .... every time I ask a question or say anything i get bashed. Do I force feed them? I am trying to change their diet but i have had them a few weeks and I can barely get them to eat veggies.
Just as I have said before: I have 2 toddlers. Would they love to eat crap all day? Um- YES. Will they starve if I take the CRAP away and leave healthy choices? Not for long.
So, NO, they won't starve. You just take the crap away and when they get hungry they will eat the good food. I do that with my kids and I have had our pediatrician approve that with my children & have been told to continue to do that by him.
I also did this same thing with my gliders and I had to even go as far as pureeing the whole meal together. Now they WILL eat whatever I put in there- but before they did NOT.
And you are not getting bashed- you're getting upset because people aren't telling you what you want to hear. And that is unfortunate. Look at it from a different view- people are trying to help you give your gliders a better and safer quality of life. |
Megs06 Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 08:33:52 PM
No, what you should do is take the heat lamp away. They can regulate their own body temperatures and when they have each other, they're even better off. You don't want to over heat them. Not healthy.
Pellets and any hard/dry food is bad because it causes abrasions in their mouths and throat and can also cause intestinal blockage.
You may want to go here for more info:
http://glidergeek.weebly.com/the-truth-behind-dry-food.html
You may actually want to start your own thread with all your questions/uncertainties so that we can leave this topic be. It's really getting off topic.  |
JeremyLexie Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 06:15:39 PM
I didnt realize that. I think some of the information pocket pets tell is accurate but some if plain stupid. Mine like the pelleted diet and PPP is not the only that sells the pellets. Several companies do. I realized after I got them how bad a company they are. I have discontinued the heat rock but the do have a ceramic heat lamp that gives a bit of heat. I have the AC very high in the summer and they are still very small. I guess I am just a horrible parent .... every time I ask a question or say anything i get bashed. Do I force feed them? I am trying to change their diet but i have had them a few weeks and I can barely get them to eat veggies. |
JeremyLexie Posted - Aug 22 2010 : 11:45:57 PM
Please contact the BBB and file a complaint. Do not get another one there. I was lucky the two I got from them were healthy per the vet. |
Megs06 Posted - Aug 21 2010 : 01:20:24 PM
^that |
WintersSong Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:53:25 PM
JeremyLexie, heatrocks pose dangers, such as: risk of electrocution, and risk of burns. There is no reason to use one.
I find myself wondering though..
why would you pick THIS thread as your first post? This thread has been silent for almost a year now (until your post). |
kyro298 Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 10:36:42 PM
As mentioned repeatedly, heat rocks are dangerous, unnecessary and they should be tossed! |
JeremyLexie Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 09:57:34 PM
I bought a heat rock so i can have my AC cranked up really high and they cat get some warmth. |
Rita Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 02:54:47 PM
Heat rocks are sold for a couple of reasons. One - they sell gliders way to young and the poor little things probably cant regulate they body temperatures yet. Two - and the most important reason for a mill breeder - MONEY in their pockets. |
guitargeek01 Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 10:54:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
omg! PPP told you to use a heat rock?!?! I missed that reading it before....jeeze! Are they trying to kill the animals, with the info they give out? Or are they just really that stupid? Anyone know the answer to that?? It really and truelly breaks my heart to hear stories about animal abuse! Why in gos name would ANYONE ever want to hurt an innocent animal? I can understand wanting to hurt a human (lmao) but a sweet little animal!! I mean COME ON!!!! And with the petstore I went to..let me clarify this some...The cage is always clean, it was just once when it had urine dripping from the pouch,...tho it shhould jhave never happened at all...and it believe they were getting ready to clean it b/c of where it was placed at the time. However it should have so so much more room, and something to stimulate there little baby minds :) So does that qualify as abuse? Also the fish their are like all dying....or dead....its so weird...and sad.....I dont think pet stores should be allowed to sell gliders b/c they need to much attention, and they cant get it from the pet store.....it seems wrong to me!
as long as there is a demand for gliders, they will keep selling them. heat rocks cost a good amount of money so they are tacking more money onto the sale bill. thats the only explanation i have as to why they sell heat rocks. and uh, gliders are messy, there cages dont have to be ravishingly beautiful. they are gonna mess them up every night anyways. The reason why some OK pet stores sell them in smaller cages is because i dont think they have room for a 5 ft cage in the store, they are not meant to be permanent cages. (i also got my first glider at a petstore that was in very good condition) |
filly47 Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 04:57:03 PM
You MUST change your glider's diet right now annonymous! There are a few diets out there which are widely used (check out the gliderpedia), but those pellets are going to shorten your glider's life and health. They are exotic animals, and I dont' care what PPP says, they can not live on a pelleted diet! I don't mean to be rude, but you need to change his diet now! |
Anonymous Posted - Oct 08 2009 : 02:48:33 PM
I am so sorry about your loss! I recently experienced a similar loss.
I bought a sugar glider from Perfect Pocket Pets in June. He was the meanest little thing I had ever seen. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I bought him. I followed PPP’s guidelines completely including not going on internet sites. (I found this site recently when trying to figure out which cage to buy.) I was determined to get this little guy to bond. It took 9 weeks of almost all of my waking time, but he bonded and is now the sweetest little guy.
I felt guilty leaving Buddy alone every night when I went to bed. On Sept 4th I bought another sugar glider from PPP’s. She was the sweetest little thing ever. We all fell madly in love with her. She seemed to be doing great, but on the 10th day she was lethargic so I rushed her to my exotic vet, but it was too late to save her. My vet had seen a few other gliders from PPP that were sick or that died around the same time. I have no idea what happened to her. I did everything the same as I did with the first one. She weighed only 26 grams and my vet said she doubted that she was even 8 weeks oop when I got her. We were absolutely devastated so I totally know how you feel.
I took my first sugar glider to the vet a few days later just to make sure that he didn’t have anything wrong. He got a clean bill of health. She said that he looked really good, but was concern about his diet. I must admit I that I have not changed his diet yet. He loves the pellets! I also feed him a variety of fruits and vegetables daily. He has absolutely no odor. I keep him with me most of the day and I really like the fact that he doesn’t stink. I’m concerned that he will stink if I switch diets. I’m not sure if this is just another lie told to me by PPP. There are too many lies to count at this point!
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skittlesandpeanut Posted - Oct 05 2009 : 02:16:51 AM
that was me sorry.... |
Anonymous Posted - Oct 04 2009 : 05:09:36 PM
omg! PPP told you to use a heat rock?!?! I missed that reading it before....jeeze! Are they trying to kill the animals, with the info they give out? Or are they just really that stupid? Anyone know the answer to that?? It really and truelly breaks my heart to hear stories about animal abuse! Why in gos name would ANYONE ever want to hurt an innocent animal? I can understand wanting to hurt a human (lmao) but a sweet little animal!! I mean COME ON!!!! And with the petstore I went to..let me clarify this some...The cage is always clean, it was just once when it had urine dripping from the pouch,...tho it shhould jhave never happened at all...and it believe they were getting ready to clean it b/c of where it was placed at the time. However it should have so so much more room, and something to stimulate there little baby minds :) So does that qualify as abuse? Also the fish their are like all dying....or dead....its so weird...and sad.....I dont think pet stores should be allowed to sell gliders b/c they need to much attention, and they cant get it from the pet store.....it seems wrong to me! |
guitargeek01 Posted - Oct 04 2009 : 10:07:04 AM
Im so sorry you had to go through this. Gliders are a lot more complex with care than PPP lets on.
diets should be: fresh fruits, vegetables, and some sort of protein (chicken, insects)
gliders shouldnt be in the center of attention at your home, they should be in a quiet room away from windows or drafty areas.
dont use the "heat rock" they probably sold you, it could kill them.
If you need anymore information, feel free to PM me.
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filly47 Posted - Oct 04 2009 : 08:57:55 AM
skittlesandpeanut-contact your local humane society if you think neglect or cruelty. That is what that pet store sounds like! Places like that burn mme up! Those who sell any animal and make them live in conditions like that! Oh and PPP refers to perfect pocket pets, or Pocket Pets who are based out of Florida and if you have heard the stories there is a reason why there is the annonymous button-because they have threatened lawsuits on a few of us already for slander against them. |
skittlesandpeanut Posted - Oct 04 2009 : 01:45:05 AM
wow wtf! I went to push submit and a pop up thing said "you are submitting a sensitive topic issue and may be chastized for it..or whatever..and then it told me to post ann. so no one could mess with me..what the hell is that about..everything i said is just my opinion from the observations i have made... |
skittlesandpeanut Posted - Oct 04 2009 : 01:40:32 AM
omg! I'm so sorry. That is so so horrible and sad. What is a breeder mill? I have read about ppp on this site but never heard of them elsewhere. Sounds like a horrible place tho. Theres this petstore where i live called seabreeze, and it sickens me! They sell gliders there, but they a babys and they have like at least 10 gliders at all times, and the cage is so freakin small with no toys in it. And they have 1 giant sleeping pouch thingy, which was covered in urine the one time i went there. I asked to see the suggies one day, b/c they are so high up you cant see any of them, plus they were all in the sleeping sack. Anyway they asked if i was going to buy one, b/c if not they werent allowed to show me the suggies! WTF! It really bothered me. I go in there often just to check out how they are doing, even tho i cant see a thing. It really is horrible how small this cage it. My cage isnt huge and this cage is like not even a 1/4 of the size of mine. I always make comments when i visit this store. lol. it is so upsetting to see. |
kyro298 Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 10:12:56 AM
If you do a search for them up top, you will see exactly how *not* alone you are. They are slick salespeople. Period. |
H Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 09:57:49 AM
I felt horrible too but try not to beat yourself up about it. They probably made you feel like you couldn't get gliders anywhere else because they don't breed often enough. That's the story they told us. The falsification and half-truths are endless. They are great salespeople and I know you probably felt like after talking with these people you had enough information to make an educated decision. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I posted lots of questions on the message boards after we bought our glider and always received quick and understanding responses from the members here. So don't hesitate to ask questions. You'll find people who've owned colonies of gliders for many, many years and can tell you exactly what is normal and what to expect. Good luck!!! |
AT A TOTAL LOSS Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 09:29:38 AM
...so the moral to the story is I went to a mill breeder  As a beagle breeder, (I know the horror stories) how could I be so stupid? I am so dissappointed and angry.  I will absolutely do extensive research before I do anything like this again. Thanks to everyone for your replies. I still feel really bad and I'm sure I will for a long time. I sure learned a lesson here. I'm so sad that two little babies had to be on the brunt of it though . Maybe in the future I will be able to post something a bit happier about a couple of healthy gliders I got from a reputable breeder and share fun stories and pictures. Until then, I will be researching and reading and educating myself (and others when possible). I know now why the PPP tell people not to go to these "message boards". They don't want people to learn about their corrupt and inconceivable policies and procedures and ill information until after they get paid. It's a damn shame!! |
H Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 12:37:29 AM
Didn't mean to post anon. Lets try that again. |
Anonymous Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 12:36:00 AM
I also got my glider from ppp. If you want to pm me and ask any questions feel free. I know exactly what you must be feeling, I felt the same. Research is key. This website and the members here got me on the right track so I'm so glad you joined. Hopefully your experience from here on out will be more pleasant! |
Mollysmom Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 08:49:10 PM
Oh, and I want to add, I am so sorry that you, your family, and these innocent little gliders had to go through this. I am really sorry for your loss. |
Mollysmom Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 08:48:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
I wanted to add to my story that I just found this site. I'm hoping some of you with experience will have some answers. If I only knew all of this was going to happen I would have never done this. Now my husband has spoken with the PPP people and wants to go back and get 2 more? I am so scared that they will die like the first two. I don't know how to fix what I don't know was broken.
I do not know how old your little gliders were. However, it sounds like they were probably removed from their parents way too early. Little gliders generally do not wean until about 10-14 weeks after coming out of pouch. They need to nurse to get protein and complete nutrition. Also, all gliders are "sap-suckers", meaning that they get their nutrition from wet foods. Gliders CAN and do chew up foods, but really cannot get adequate nutrition from those dried pelleted foods. Your suggies probably starved to death, though I can't say for certain.
Please don't beat yourself up. Many people have fallen prey to the tactics of mill breeders who profoundly over-simplify the needs and requirements of sugar gliders to make lots of money quickly. |
filly47 Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 07:34:30 PM
I am so sorry about your loss. It is horrible that they continue to sell sick and inbred joeys that are most likely underage to unsuspecting people like yourself, and then lie about their care, which only worsens their fate. The only real mistake you did was to trust their salespitch. They are out for profit, not in the best interest of those animals. Please look into either a breeder, or check craigslist for ones in need of rehoming! Best of luck to you!
-these are my expressed beliefs and as such should be up to the reader to decide on their own what they want to believe. (PPP is trying to sue me for slander (which btw is spoken word not written word) - |
cengland911 Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 04:15:47 PM
The reason why the other suggies died was either they where too young, bad diet, depression, parasites, or all of it. It is really hard to tell. These are wonderful pets once you do your research. Keep researching your doing the right thing!! : ) |
kyro298 Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 04:12:50 PM
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our2girlz Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 12:39:55 PM
There are also lots of gliders that are being rehomed everyday due to impulse buying you could look in to getting at least a couple of those. As for diet there are several different so I would read, read, read about that. Also if the only cage you have is the one that vame with the gliders, they are more comfortable in a larger cage. |
AT A TOTAL LOSS Posted - Sep 24 2009 : 12:39:16 PM
So where do I find a "good breeder"? I live in NJ. Any suggestions there? Any clues to why I couldn't get these poor babies to live more than a week? I will buy in pairs now. I am doing alot of internet research now. Trying to educate myself. This was the first time I had even heard of these "critters". And my family and I fell in love. I could really use some guidance if anyone can help. I told myself after our second baby died that I was done. My husband is convincing me that we should try again. I'm really scared. But I really would love to try again. These are such beautiful little animals. |
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