Someone posted that Suncoast is not a mill, but in my definition they are. They sell about 10 joeys a week and to me that's a bit too many to give each glider the love and attention they need. Granted these people may have 100 workers I still think that's a lot of gliders.

Now... I'm going to take into consideration how suncoast is, they are not ilke the other mills( cageworks, sugar gliders r us) they actually educate a new owner. Education is great, but if sugar gliders r us and custom cage works did the same exact thing people would still call them a mill. In my opinion Suncoast is a mill, just a good one. I still don't advocate buying from mills, just because they have some nice spokesperson doesn't mean they might not have dirty things in the background. Now before you come up to me with flaming pitchforks I'm not ACCUSING anyone of doing so I just want to know what constitutes as a glider mill , this is based on OPINION so this should be civil.

Thats a tough one. There are so many different ways to look at it. If they are taking the best care possible of their gliders. Then they are doing what needs to be done. Who are we to decide how many they should have? Yet when you have so many how can you get to know them and love them and REALLY bond with them? Also if you are selling that many, it really is about money to some degree. The only person that knows to what degree is the people responsible. Then throw in WHY mass breed like this when there are so many that don't have homes? How is that fair to all the unwanted gliders? Yet is it (we will just say Suncoast as an example) Suncoasts responsibility to make sure all these other gliders have a home? Why because someone else wasn't responsible should they have to change what they are doing? Then throw in my personal beliefs that everything happens for a reason. I personnely would not buy from a mill or a large scale breeder. PERIOD! I am not out to support people choosing to make money off animals. If they are REALLY taking care of them, I will not judge them. To each their own. I have 4 dogs. Two of whom I plan to breed. Its not about making money. As their care alone will be more then I will ever make. I faught with myself for a long time before I made the decision to breed. So many different angles of looking at things. I am a responsible animal owner, my dogs get fed one of the best foods on the market, regular vet care and are loved dearly! I have rescued. I have fostered. I will do both again. I am also a hobby breeder. I chose a middle ground for myself when it comes to animals. Breeding has been a passion I have had for nearly a decade. I also want to save animals. So I will do both.

If breeding is your primary income, than you are a mill. I prefer home breeding, where the animals are not a main source of income, moreso a hobby. There is nothing wrong with profit from animals, but in order to live off that, you have to be a mill, plain and simple.

I would like to see any company that has any kind of animal just for breeding to make money closed. There have been many shows on lately about "mills"...where animals are kept in cages just to breed...I am at this point thinking of dogs. When working for a vet a couple had "saved" a mastiff from a mill. This poor female had been kept in a cage where she could stand and turn around...the cage was on a concrete slab and she was allowed out to do her business then back in the cage...workers just hosed down the concrete. She had NEVER been on grass until she was rescued. Patty and Sue gave her a loving home...she freaked the first time they took her for a walk on grass and was really in awe of trees. after alot of time and alot of love they were able to take her to a doggie park...she was sweet and a gentle giant. They also had rescued a ridgeback and a mutt.
She lived for only a few more years but she had a wonderful few years filled with lots of love, good food, toys and doggie companions.

I do believe in hobby breeders...backyard breeders...if you add up the cost of caring for new born puppies (puppy shots, sometimes tail docking or ear cropping) the hobby breeder does not make a huge profit. Without the "breeds" would disappear...because no one would be breeding them.
West Palm Beach Fl is trying to pass a law now that all dogs and cats MUST be "fixed"..only lisenced breeders will be exempt...this is to elimate all the strays and animals being given to shelters.

Some people that want Sugar Gliders can not find them for sale in there area...we have had people come into chat often that want suggies and can not find any. I believe they have no choice but to order from a breeder...I would hope that there are some out there that keep great records and do not allow inbreeding....I would hope there are people that love animals and want others to enjoy them too.

I have only heard good things about Suncoast. A company that taks the time to check out people that want to purchase a suggie (hopefuly two) and explain the good the bad and the ugly about them is not just trying to make a profit... We have had several people ask about Suncoast..maybe Suncoast should do a video of there facility..with suggies area, product area and the employees......

my vet actually sent me to suncoast for more information,food, and toys when i first got my gliders, they sound ok but selling that many gliders in week is suspiscious.

I also think if animals are bred and sold for primary income then it is a mill. Places like Custom Cageworks sells them too young, without proper information, diet, cages, etc...They prey on uneducated people to profit. To me, that's the difference.

If it were not for glider mills, no one would have any gliders. Even the small "hobby" breeders got their breeding stock from mills. It is simply not financially feasible to import only one or two gliders, and some importers impose a minimum count of animals you must purchase.

I don't think breeding animals for money is wrong. I drink milk. I eat steak and chicken. I like scrambled eggs. Having a large number of animals in order to make a living is not wrong in my opinion. What is wrong though is horrible treatment of animals, and a large scale operation isn't necessarily more prone to abuse than small scale.

I also don't necessarily disagree with mills, it's the ones that prey on people for profit, that are selling animals as pets without proper information, that are "bad".

So are all breeders MIlls? Or just the bad ones? I have never heard a bad word about suncoast or about anyone even buying a glider from them. It wouldn't be fair to call them a Mill without knowing more about them.

If they are pumping them out for profit, they're probably a mill. I don't know the exact definition of a mill, but good or bad, seems like they could still be called a mill. It's like a paper mill, windmill, etc... Just because it produces in mass quantities is what makes me, personally, call it a mill. When we say "glider mill", it is normally in a negative way because of the experiences a lot of us have had with them. I can see how it's definition can be taken so differently.

Not all breeders are mills. However, I don't think all mills are necessarily bad, and not all hobby breeders are good. I like Kazko's definition of what a mill is, "If breeding is your primary income, than you are a mill."

Of course, the word "mill" does have the connotation of being an animal factory. Does anyone eat eggs? I think one could easily call the source of eggs to be from an egg mill. I don't want to turn this into a debate about vegetarianism. I'm trying to point out that there is a lot of large scale animal production in this country, and in every other country in the world, and it isn't necessarily wrong. In order to feed over 6 billion people, large scale animal production is necessary, otherwise there would be very severe starvation. The point I'm trying to make is that a "mill" isn't necessarily wrong. There is plenty of gray area here and whether something is right or wrong largely depends on circumstance.

Mmmm,yes i love eggs,chicken,beef,pork... But i think they should be treated with respect and be well taking care of before we eat them. Any time i hear Mill, i think BAD.

I just got an image of a butler escorting a pig into the slaughter house saying "Watch your step, sir...right this way" in an English accent while waving his white gloved hand towards the "butcher block". hehe Not funny, sorry-couldn't help it.

Breeders like Suncoast & The Pet Glider do not keep their gliders in mill conditions so it's really hard to classify them as a mill. To many people, mill's mean keeping animals in horrible conditions.

Me personally I refer to them as glider factories- because actually that's what they are. They are providing and producing gliders in higher numbers and faster than a hobby breeder. The gliders are their baby making machines.

eric i loved both of your explanations & Kaz's to....without mills alot of ppl would be without pets. keeping them in good condition, housed well, fed well no inbreeding..health care..then those ppl are doing pet lovers a service...when we hear mill...we think of all the horror stories not the good things...

I've seen Pet glider's cages and I'm glad they are large, I *Wish* they had more toys, but I'll be realistic, at least they have wheels.

I do not agree with this diet page at all. If I went here not knowing anything about gliders I would have to look up calcium phosphorous, they could add more to that and 20 mealworms? WHAT? And would I give them fruits too, that is just slightly confusing.

Also, some of their photos of "Squirrel gliders" are actually just sugar gliders that are more like the australian ones. If you go to Rach's photos you will see real squirrel gliders and if you go to Ko's photos you'll see how their "squirrel gliders" are just sugar gliders. I'm not an expert like these two people but they looked at the photos and told me how to tell if it was a squirrel glider or a sugar glider.

Not meaning to start a debate but even though they have large cages I don't like that they don't ONLY sell in pairs, they recommend getting them in pairs by putting some on sale but most places do that.

If I had to choose over all the big breeders I'd probably go with suncoast but of course I favor rescuing or rehomes when you can.

Either way to be a good "mill" or glider factory or breeder I hope they know when to retire their breeding pairs and neuter the male. I also hope they don't pull a "Custom cage works" and just let them go in the wild.

http://www.thepetglider.com/index/the-pet-glider-nutrition-system/the-pet-glider-nutrition-system.html