Ok since I know you want to know...
The group is doing very good. They are steadily puting on weight, and tons of it (10g to 14g in a week and 2 days) Now that is heavy stuff! LOL. They are all being fed HPW (GOD I love that stuff) They are reffered to as the Peter Pan Gang, since I named the tiniest girl Tinkerbelle. The rest were all given Perter Pan names. Nana had 2 joeys OOP 9/1 both boys and they are doing remarkable well. So we went from 12 to 14, and are expected to become 15 since Wendy has a joey IP.

Please explain how bad they really were if they were pregnant and two have delivered healthy joeys and another IP? It seems to me that I read somewhere that if they weren't healthy they would not mate. I also believe that I read on sugargliderpedia that the cage requirements for gliders wsere only 2x2x2, which of course is minimum, but it would suffice.

Many female gliders become unhealthy because of breeding too much. I'd really be curious to see where it says that gliders won't breed if unhealthy. That's a new one to me. I also thought the Gliderpedia said the minimum is 3x2x2 and although that may suffice for maybe a pair, certainly not more. Sleeping in food dishes is also a bad sign and they were obviously malnourished considering their weight. I don't see how this wouldn't be a bad situation.

...and for the record, FLORIDA requirements are 4x4x4 so I'd say, NO, not sufficient or legal.

http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?Laws

There seem to be alot of people on craigslist who easily give up on their gliders. I come across at least one post a day of someone who has to "rehome" a glider, and they usually charge the same price of someone who is selling them, which isn't supposed to be allowed. I found this one today:

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Captin you obviously don't have a clue as what glider care is all about do you? First of all gliders are nocturnal! These guys were in the sun, do you have any idea what that does to their eyes??? They are marsupials with very high calcium and protein requirements, that is not even discussing the need for vitamins and minerals they get from the fruits and vegetables in a suitable diet. These guys were fed cat food and FRUIT LOOPS! For christ sake, they were kept in filthy 1x1 galvanized cages. Do you know the average weight of a female glider should be between 105 to 140g the smallest female weighed in at 48g she was with a male for breeding!!!!! How was she to support her nutirtional requirements and that of a joey without dying? I'm sorry but I truly hope you don't own a glider beacuse it sure is better off in someone elses hands. They female with the 2 joeys you are talking about weighed in at 88g with joeys still in pouch. A joey day 1 out of pouch should weigh a minimum of 7g so subtract 14g from her 88g we are left with 74g I guess this is optimum weight??? Now lets talk about their coats, they are stained, dull and blotchy all are signs of malnutrition. Other than finding them dead how much worse off would you like them to be before you see a proplem???? I'd like to know????

Adri,
Get your facts straight.I read the book Keeping and Breeding Sugar Gliders as Pets by Caroline MacPherson before making my purchase. I purchased 3 pair of gliders from the lady in question two weeks previously to your buying the 6 pairs.Did you ask about their ages? 3 of the pair you bought were over 12 years old, 2 pair were about 6 yrs old and one had a 4 month old baby in with a young adult, believe that must be Tinkerbell. I saw the cages that the gliders you are talking about were in. They were 2x2x3,not lxl,you just trying to make yourself sound so good. I called the lady yesterday wanting to know about the cages she had them in wanting to buy them and she said you took them.If they were so small, why did you take them for your gliders? Yes, They had food bowls in their cages that always had Purina hi protein cat food with some sort of sugar cereal. These glidiers were under about 30 feet of roofing that was protected from the sun and elements on 3 sides with structures and the open side was 30 feet away from the elements.
The only thing that I agree with that you are saying is that they were sleeping in hook on feeders that were NOT for food, just for sleeping. They had thrown all the bedding from the butter containers that she had them sleeping in out of the cage and then chewed them to smitherines. I saw the one of the chewed up containers and suggested that she remove it from the cage. Even with the butter container they seemed to prefer the hook ons for sleeping. (to each his own).
Did she give you some of the the phosphorus free calcium vitamin D powder that she sprinkled on their food every night that she gave me? I saw the individual bowls of fresh food that were put out when they woke at night. The night I was there they had corn, peas&carrots, Grapes, apple and chicken. The gliders that are in her larger walk in (12x12) were getting a big pan of corn, grapes, apple, cantelope, sweet potatoes, chicken and eggs. They also had pinky mice, nuts, grasshioppers, moths and dried mealworms on alternate nights.
Give me a break. What you call a rescue seems to be a purchase you made that now sounds like you have sour grapes. I don't know how long they breed for but I suggest if you love them so much and feel as tho they have been rescued and notg purchased I do suggest that you have them neutered if they are still of breeding age.
In reading all that you have said about these guys it doesn't sound like you are stating anything like I saw. Do you feel better now?

Adri did mention already that she's getting the males neutered but their weight issues alone should be a huge red flag...especially considering how much weight they put on in a week. My 4 month old was 75 grams according to the vet. She's breeding gliders and isn't even keeping them in cages the minimum size that Florida law requires. That's another red flag. Were they really galvanized wire? Red flag #3. I admit, I'm assuming here, but I would have probably also taken the cages just to have a way to bring them home until I got more adequate ones ready. That may not be the case, but that's what I would have done. I understand that you didn't see the same things, but that doesn't mean she is housing them properly or being as watchful as she should about their health. Have yours been to the vet yet for a well check? Just wondering what the vet said about their weight or what they weighed. I also don't understand why you're so angry that Adri got these guys. Regardless, they are going to have a healthier life.

I have my facts straight! These animals were seen by a vet a neuter is scheduled in two weeks, due to the condition they were in the vet could not guarantee they would survive the anesthesia! I DO NOT BREED! The cages were taken so she would not put anything else in them, as I don't think she would care for anything properly. I was on the property there is no 12x12 walk in cage for gliders!!! The elaborate buffet you speak of never existed for these animals. I don't know who you are or why you defend those people so avidly. These animals are not twelve years old and if they were it still would not justify the conditions they were in. I have the pictures we took on site I guess the rest of you decide. And by the way it is abusive to put in a 4 month old female with an adult male, she would not be ready to mate and his unwanted attempts could siriously injur her. By the way if she were 4 months old 48g is still way below the average weight for her which should be 65 to 70g. Oh! By the way since when does reading a book qualify as a glider expert? I have owned gliders since 1991...

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

Adri,
Get your facts straight.I read the book Keeping and Breeding Sugar Gliders as Pets by Caroline MacPherson before making my purchase.

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"Sugar Gliders: Complete Pet Owners Manual" was written in 1997 and at the time was up to date. However, so much has been learned in the last decade. As our knowledge increases we must change. What was the standard when Caroline wrote her book is not any longer.

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

I purchased 3 pair of gliders from the lady in question two weeks previously to your buying the 6 pairs.Did you ask about their ages? 3 of the pair you bought were over 12 years old, 2 pair were about 6 yrs old and one had a 4 month old baby in with a young adult, believe that must be Tinkerbell.

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How is it that if you just bought gliders from her, you know all these details? Why do you think they're true?

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

I saw the cages that the gliders you are talking about were in. They were 2x2x3,not lxl, [/quote}

I saw the cages too and they weren't 2 x 2 x 3. They may have been 2 1/2 - 3 tall, but only about 1' deep and 1 1/2 wide.

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

you just trying to make yourself sound so good.

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From what I've read, she's not "trying" to do anything other than help these gliders.

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

I called the lady yesterday wanting to know about the cages she had them in wanting to buy them and she said you took them.If they were so small, why did you take them for your gliders?

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Why did you want to buy the cages? Are you planning on becoming a breeder? She took the cages w/the gliders to have somewhere to keep them until she could order more cages. 3 of the pairs went into my extra cages I loaned her. She was going to try to join the smaller cages they came w/together to form 3 larger cages for the other 3 pairs.

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

Yes, They had food bowls in their cages that always had Purina hi protein cat food with some sort of sugar cereal.

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Fruit Loops aren't healthy for gliders.

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

These glidiers were under about 30 feet of roofing that was protected from the sun and elements on 3 sides with structures and the open side was 30 feet away from the elements.
The only thing that I agree with that you are saying is that they were sleeping in hook on feeders that were NOT for food, just for sleeping. They had thrown all the bedding from the butter containers that she had them sleeping in out of the cage and then chewed them to smitherines. I saw the one of the chewed up containers and suggested that she remove it from the cage. Even with the butter container they seemed to prefer the hook ons for sleeping. (to each his own).

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Fleece pouches are preferred my most gliders. Adri brought pouches w/her and all but 2 of the gliders were curled up in them on the way home.

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

Did she give you some of the the phosphorus free calcium vitamin D powder that she sprinkled on their food every night that she gave me? I saw the individual bowls of fresh food that were put out when they woke at night. The night I was there they had corn, peas&carrots, Grapes, apple and chicken. The gliders that are in her larger walk in (12x12) were getting a big pan of corn, grapes, apple, cantelope, sweet potatoes, chicken and eggs. They also had pinky mice, nuts, grasshioppers, moths and dried mealworms on alternate nights.

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I think the pics posted speak volumes.

[quote]Originally posted by CaptainGrunt

Give me a break. What you call a rescue seems to be a purchase you made that now sounds like you have sour grapes. I don't know how long they breed for but I suggest if you love them so much and feel as tho they have been rescued and notg purchased I do suggest that you have them neutered if they are still of breeding age.
In reading all that you have said about these guys it doesn't sound like you are stating anything like I saw. Do you feel better now?

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Where did you get that they aren't going to be neutered? I don't post here too much, but I've seen this same situation w/the mill breeders. When a thread is started about gliders that came from mills and were sick or in bad conditions, a brand new user will register just to defend the mill. As for feeling better, I will when no more gliders are ill, overbred, injured or kept in bad conditions. I saw these gliders too. I saw these cages. What I saw doesn't match up to what you're describing. So, who's to say what's the truth.