Diet <b>does</b> does contribute towards HLP in that when the glider is on a diet that is not nutritional, their immune system leaves them susceptible to developing infections and other diseases.

I think what Val is saying is in this particular thread, for my personal worries she doesn't foresee me having issues with HLP due to diet.

According to TSS when it's "diet related" it's not actually diet, there's a problem the glider has that keeps them from absorbing the Calcium being given. At least that's how I'm reading it.

Thanks grace- much appreciated!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br />I think what Val is saying is in this particular thread, for my personal worries she doesn't foresee me having issues with HLP due to diet.

According to TSS when it's "diet related" it's not actually diet, there's a problem the glider has that keeps them from absorbing the Calcium being given. At least that's how I'm reading it.
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I do believe thats what val was saying too :)

What I am saying is that we have not one single documented case of MBD (HLP) being CAUSED BY "bad" diet. Not one. In every case where this is claimed, the reality is that no tests were run to rule anything else out or only one test was run (i.e. incomplete testing). In every case that we have documented TESTING to determine the cause of the MBD, there is found a bacterial or parasite infection.
Since x-rays and/or blood work are necessary to accurately diagnose MBD, it makes sense that those that are seeking accurate diagnosis would also do additional testing to find the cause.
There are many cases of people self-diagnosing HLP or of vets applying the diagnosis without testing. These are not considered clinically relevant, as they are not verifyable. MBD cannot be diagnosed by observing symptoms only, as the symptoms can also be seen with other medical issues. Testing is necessary to diagnose and is also necessary to treat effectively. With accurate diagnosis, HLP is easily and quickly treatable and 100% reversible.

While diet certainly plays a part in overall health, and overall health will determine how quickly and completely one heals/recovers (or how significant illness is), diet does not CAUSE MBD. If it did, then many more gliders would get it. There is no need to stress and worry so much over diet. Somewhere along the way this information got misinterpreted or misrepresented and now there is a huge hype over ratios and numbers and such that is not necessary for maintaining healthy gliders. This I say from experience and from a research standpoint.

Thank you Val for making that crystal clear!

I have spent so much time stressing over Ca:P ratios and oxalates that I have about driven myself crazy!

I feed my gliders healthy foods and a wide variety. They do not get cheap pellets, or junk foods. The most unhealthy thing that enters their system is the one White Hersheys Morsel they each get in the morning as a treat from the hubby.

Other than that their snacks are healthy, sunflower seeds, pieces of walnuts or almonds which are their favorites...mealies, moths, & mosquito eaters which are abundant right now.

I feel so much better! Thanks again Val...I appreciate it.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by viciousencounters</i>
<br />Please remember anyone looking at Darcy's Diet that it was created for a terminally ill glider so that it could keep weight on, it is not intended for normal healthy gliders.

J&Z'sMum, there are other protein chooses besides meats, you really should look at those in combination since most meats are also high in fat it is good to look at other sources which would also contribute to the idea of variety, check out this list I made: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35474&whichpage=2
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's why it has been modified and it is now called the ensure diet. I know several people who have used it long term. Not sure if they are all on here...

If I remember right cora uses this diet. Jillmarie has, and a breeder in Washington....T Bullinger of lovegliders (I believe T has switched her gliders to the one the HPWs)

This is very reassuring. Like J&Z's mommy, I have been very concerned about their ratio's. That said, I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that most living creatures will eat what they're body requires if given adecquate choices. So that's kind of where I am. Each night they have plenty of fresh options...fruits, veggies, and protien (mealies are a must to coax them back into the cage after play time).

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Something_To_Believe_In</i>
<br />What I am saying is that we have not one single documented case of MBD (HLP) being CAUSED BY "bad" diet. Not one. In every case where this is claimed, the reality is that no tests were run to rule anything else out or only one test was run (i.e. incomplete testing). In every case that we have documented TESTING to determine the cause of the MBD, there is found a bacterial or parasite infection.
Since x-rays and/or blood work are necessary to accurately diagnose MBD, it makes sense that those that are seeking accurate diagnosis would also do additional testing to find the cause.
There are many cases of people self-diagnosing HLP or of vets applying the diagnosis without testing. These are not considered clinically relevant, as they are not verifyable. MBD cannot be diagnosed by observing symptoms only, as the symptoms can also be seen with other medical issues. Testing is necessary to diagnose and is also necessary to treat effectively. With accurate diagnosis, HLP is easily and quickly treatable and 100% reversible.

While diet certainly plays a part in overall health, and overall health will determine how quickly and completely one heals/recovers (or how significant illness is), diet does not CAUSE MBD. If it did, then many more gliders would get it. There is no need to stress and worry so much over diet. Somewhere along the way this information got misinterpreted or misrepresented and now there is a huge hype over ratios and numbers and such that is not necessary for maintaining healthy gliders. This I say from experience and from a research standpoint.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
While diet certainly plays a part in overall health, and overall health will determine how quickly and completely one heals/recovers (or how significant illness is), diet does not CAUSE MBD. If it did, then many more gliders would get it. There is no need to stress and worry so much over diet. Somewhere along the way this information got misinterpreted or misrepresented and now there is a huge hype over ratios and numbers and such that is not necessary for maintaining healthy gliders. This I say from experience and from a research standpoint.
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I'm so happy to see this. While I have been gathering information and trying to decide what diet I am going to feed, Ive found it overwhelming and hard to keep up with. We as humans try to eat healthy, but we don't sit around deciphering ratios to do so. I do believe diet is important and knowledge is required, but its nothing to pull your hair out over.

The only time I give Sweet Potato is cooked. Every once in a while I'll cut up one and cook it with a butternut squash and some green beans and they seem to love it. They wouldn't eat it raw but gobble up the cooked ones. Maybe it has added flavor mixed with the other veggies.

I have just read this thread for the first time and saw the photo of the Sweet Potato snacks. My observation with these is I would avoid feeding them as they are made in China and they could be subject to quality issues.

I didn't know that they could eat cheese. I will have to give it a try. There have been times that my boys will NOT eat anything and then there are times when they they will NOT touch their fruits and veggies. When that happens I will leave out the protein(Candy's blended)and only give them veggies. I worried a LOT about them not eating at first. Now I figure they will eat when they get good and hungry. I will often heat up the blended diet and hold it for them while they eat it. My boys are SOOO picky so I understand the trouble you are having!! I still stuggle to find veggies that they will eat. Good Luck!

Some say gliders are lactose intolerant. I've never had an issue with my 5 but I do only give it sparingly because it can cause constipation. And I give REAL cheese, not processed cheese food.

If you're gonna try it I would only give a little bit if they've never had it before.

Wow I learn something new everyday! Thanks for the info val..

I've never worried too much about ratios unless im giving something high in phosphorus then i try to balance it out w/ papaya etc. I also give cheese on a regular basis, i give cream cheese every now and then and goat cheese once a week. They love the goat cheese its the first thing they go for when i give it. Same as Lyndia, the only unhealthy thing my gliders eat is yogies and i guess mealies cus they are fattening.