Okay, over night Gypsy and the boys were doing long hissing with short barks at each other. The only thing I know about hissing is UTI. Anyway. I grabbed Omi this morning and before I got him near her cage, she was crabbing like a demon. So, I put him just out of reach of her and he was so tense and shaking. She barked right in his face! He immediately calmed down but still wanted nothing to do with her. Neither did Kai. She smelled him but he jumped out of my hand and ran across the top of her cage to get to his and she ran right along with him. I grabbed him because I wanted to be sure he didn't lose any toes. Does this sound like a step in the right direction even though the boys keep running away? Why are they running?

I don't know the backround...are you trying to introduce them? It sounds like she does not know the boys if she is crabbing like crazy at them, or that she is afraid of them. I would be running away from her too if she was crabbing like a demon at me! :)

No, she was crabbing at me but once she saw it was Omi, she came right out and wanted to meet him.

Awe :) Then it's probably good that she wants to meet him. If they are barking, they are talking to each other. What would happen if you put them together in neutral territory? Maybe she just doesn't want you, YET. Is this the one that was in the pouch in the post you had about she can see you but she can't bite you? If so, fiesty little bugger ;)

I think you need to introduce them in neutral territory rather than by their cages...that just adds in another risk factor and probably doesn't help the introduction process as gliders are generally territorial and their cage is their safe place.

Okay, Omi and Gypsy got into the same pouch together. First she was in a different pouch, then he went in I guess thinking it was Kai and she literally tossed him out. Then she got into a big cube pouch and they fell asleep together for a bit. Now they are awake and crabbing every so often. Decided not to throw Kai into the mix until they are completely quiet. I am so nervous but it is quiet in the pouch. They are both wide awake and together. She keeps getting on top of him. I need to know what behavior during intros is normal so I don't flip out.

Lisa, I would recommend picking someone to contact through the process and follow their advice because if you keep asking for advice from many different people and trying to follow it all at once, chances are its not going to work. Pick someone you trust who has done intros but then go with their recommendations(ask their reasonings for things if that will make you feel more comfortable). But if you try to follow bits and pieces of several different people, its just going to be confusing for you and the gliders.

The one thing that is agreed upon is that intros should NEVER EVER be in the cage or around the cage which it sounds like you are doing. So please take their pouch out of the cage and keep it on you for the rest of the day and watch them(or separate them if you are more comfortable until you pick a trusted person to help you through the intro process). If they're in the cage and a fight does break out, you are going to have a VERY hard time breaking it up in the cage...

Sarah, I didn't intro in or around the cage. Their cages were close by so they could hear each other. When I got Omi out of his cage, he was interested in her cage as we were walking by so I let him peek in through the bars and she thought it was me so she crabbed. Once she saw it was him, she stopped and came up and barked in his face. I do have someone I trust to help me with intros but I can't expect her to sit on the computer all day to guide me. Thus being why I am posting. If I am asking stupid questions, just come out and say it. I'm concerned as pretty much everyone else that intros their gliders is. They ask and you don't jump on them but me...I'm different.If you don't want to help, don't.

Omis, I don't think that Sara is trying to be rude. Intros ARE nerve wrecking!! Most people get nervous when they are doing them. The thing is (and I have seen this MANY times) - it's tough to get advice from a lot of different people. You can go out and ask 5 people for advice on intros and you will likely get 5 different answers. The same thing will happen in a post like this. That's not necessarily bad - but it's not going to give you a lot of clarity.

I am a fan of picking ONE person to help you through intros. Preferably someone you can call and ideally someone that has a good deal of experience with intros. Since people are so unsure of what to do in intros - it helps to have one person that knows what you are going through and knows the back story. Most people get overwhelmed and unshaky when they have too many different options presented to them and then they lose confidence in their actions and decisions...wondering if they did the "right" thing out of many presented to them. You know your gliders better than anyone here so you are going to know best how they are responding to the intro. My advice would be to try not to get stressed, find a solid experienced person to talk to, and go with one plan for intro.

I do NOT think you are asking stupid questions, but I think you are going into the intro process without enough knowledge of how to handle different situations, what is normal/not normal and feeling unsure(introductions can be scary so that is why I recommend having someone you trust that you can contact quickly if the need arises.- maybe wait then until you can have some time to be on the phone with them as you do it would be better so you can have reassurance)

You said
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Okay, Omi and Gypsy got into the same pouch together. First she was in a different pouch, then he went in I guess thinking it was Kai and she literally tossed him out. Then she got into a big cube pouch and they fell asleep together for a bit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To me, that sounds like introduced in the cage as she had different pouch options or put back into the same cage right after they were put together, etc. I'm not sure, but introductions should be away from the cages and they shouldn't go back into their cages until later that night after you are comfortable with their behavior during the day.

Her kicking him out of the pouch doesn't sound good to me - some crabbing is normal as they do have to figure out each other and its how they community. Its good they are together now and quiet, but if they don't settle down and go back to sleep...well I personally wouldn't feel comfortable keeping them together at night but I will refrain from offering any more advice since you do not seem to want it...

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DoubleBogey</i>
<br />Omis, I don't think that Sara is trying to be rude. Intros ARE nerve wrecking!! Most people get nervous when they are doing them. The thing is (and I have seen this MANY times) - it's tough to get advice from a lot of different people. You can go out and ask 5 people for advice on intros and you will likely get 5 different answers. The same thing will happen in a post like this. That's not necessarily bad - but it's not going to give you a lot of clarity.

I am a fan of picking ONE person to help you through intros. Preferably someone you can call and ideally someone that has a good deal of experience with intros. Since people are so unsure of what to do in intros - it helps to have one person that knows what you are going through and knows the back story. Most people get overwhelmed and unshaky when they have too many different options presented to them and then they lose confidence in their actions and decisions...wondering if they did the "right" thing out of many presented to them. You know your gliders better than anyone here so you are going to know best how they are responding to the intro. My advice would be to try not to get stressed, find a solid experienced person to talk to, and go with one plan for intro.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Kim, that is exactly what I was trying to express...intros can be scary and having a person who can be there with you at least over the phone can provide a lot of reassurance.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by petluv15</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DoubleBogey</i>
<br />Omis, I don't think that Sara is trying to be rude. Intros ARE nerve wrecking!! Most people get nervous when they are doing them. The thing is (and I have seen this MANY times) - it's tough to get advice from a lot of different people. You can go out and ask 5 people for advice on intros and you will likely get 5 different answers. The same thing will happen in a post like this. That's not necessarily bad - but it's not going to give you a lot of clarity.

I am a fan of picking ONE person to help you through intros. Preferably someone you can call and ideally someone that has a good deal of experience with intros. Since people are so unsure of what to do in intros - it helps to have one person that knows what you are going through and knows the back story. Most people get overwhelmed and unshaky when they have too many different options presented to them and then they lose confidence in their actions and decisions...wondering if they did the "right" thing out of many presented to them. You know your gliders better than anyone here so you are going to know best how they are responding to the intro. My advice would be to try not to get stressed, find a solid experienced person to talk to, and go with one plan for intro.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Kim, that is exactly what I was trying to express...intros can be scary and having a person who can be there with you at least over the phone can provide a lot of reassurance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, I just say it better. LOLOLOLOLOL I am kidding, it's a good plan IMHO.

Your right and my plan was to get collective advice and see what I could pick out of it all to use. Apparently I have picked the right advice thus far. Omi and Gypsy are asleep together in the same pouch. Kai, is another hurdle I am worried about. He is very submissive and small so I do worry about adding him. How long should I wait to try him with them ? Either one of you.

I wouldn't worry as much about Kai's size for the intro. I have intro'd small and young gliders with adults with no problems. I have also intro'd a remotely dominant female alpha-like glider to a submissive female glider - and admittedly that was a bit trickier but ultimately successful - they are great today other than the dominant one snatching food here and there. I think that one took a toll on my nerves a little bit more. LOL

If it were me, I would do the intro now. It's day time and Gypsy has done well with Omi and hopefully the fact that Kai smells like Omi will help you here. I figure you are in the thick of it and halfway there - just go ahead and finish up. If they have issues - pull them back and you will need to give it another try later on.

There is nothing magic to intros. It's more about us staying calm and giving it the best neutral shot we can. Worst case, they ball up. You are going to be right there with a fleece blankie in your hand ready to pull them apart. It's not a bad idea to drag someone else with you for the intro just for support and help if they do fight. It's not terribly hard to break them up. Be prepared to be bit if they do this. They don't mean to - you just kind of get in the way. So cover your hands if you can. My poor husband has been dragged into more than a few intros and I think he might be good luck now as they have never fought with him in the room. Actually, come to think of it...only two have for me. Those first few seconds where they meet one another is interesting. You have to almost hold your breath and wait. Sometimes they can go towards each other like dogs - SUPER interested and fast and they just want to sniff and so forth. You have to let them get it out of the way. You will know if it starts going south.

Some things that have worked for me - are to intro in a bathroom. Not for the bathtub but for the cold floor and the echo. The only intro I ever did in a bathtub, they balled up. That doesn't mean it's bad...just not my preference. SO, I put a fleece blankie (about a foot by a foot & neutral scent) on the floor. I put each glider out on the other side of the blankie and remove their pouches that are not neutral (I just throw them in the sink to get them away quick). They are going to want to get off that cold floor and get onto that fleece and there - they meet. Another thing that I do...is I have a friend on speakerphone. Somehow that extra echo seems to help and honestly for someone that is new to intro'ing, I bet it would help with nerves too. I usually have a cup or bottle of water nearby JUST in case they get really bad as a back up but I have NEVER had to use it. I think it just felt nice to have a fall back if it got really sticky. I also bring a neutral pouch in with me as well...once they seem like they are over the meeting - I let them run in there and continue getting to know one another. Usually at that point, they are all good.

My way might not be the way for others...but it's worked for me numerous times. I hope the intro goes well for you!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DoubleBogey</i>
<br />I wouldn't worry as much about Kai's size for the intro. I have intro'd small and young gliders with adults with no problems. I have also intro'd a remotely dominant female alpha-like glider to a submissive female glider - and admittedly that was a bit trickier but ultimately successful - they are great today other than the dominant one snatching food here and there. I think that one took a toll on my nerves a little bit more. LOL

If it were me, I would do the intro now. It's day time and Gypsy has done well with Omi and hopefully the fact that Kai smells like Omi will help you here. I figure you are in the thick of it and halfway there - just go ahead and finish up. If they have issues - pull them back and you will need to give it another try later on.

There is nothing magic to intros. It's more about us staying calm and giving it the best neutral shot we can. Worst case, they ball up. You are going to be right there with a fleece blankie in your hand ready to pull them apart. It's not a bad idea to drag someone else with you for the intro just for support and help if they do fight. It's not terribly hard to break them up. Be prepared to be bit if they do this. They don't mean to - you just kind of get in the way. So cover your hands if you can. My poor husband has been dragged into more than a few intros and I think he might be good luck now as they have never fought with him in the room. Actually, come to think of it...only two have for me. Those first few seconds where they meet one another is interesting. You have to almost hold your breath and wait. Sometimes they can go towards each other like dogs - SUPER interested and fast and they just want to sniff and so forth. You have to let them get it out of the way. You will know if it starts going south.

Some things that have worked for me - are to intro in a bathroom. Not for the bathtub but for the cold floor and the echo. The only intro I ever did in a bathtub, they balled up. That doesn't mean it's bad...just not my preference. SO, I put a fleece blankie (about a foot by a foot & neutral scent) on the floor. I put each glider out on the other side of the blankie and remove their pouches that are not neutral (I just throw them in the sink to get them away quick). They are going to want to get off that cold floor and get onto that fleece and there - they meet. Another thing that I do...is I have a friend on speakerphone. Somehow that extra echo seems to help and honestly for someone that is new to intro'ing, I bet it would help with nerves too. I usually have a cup or bottle of water nearby JUST in case they get really bad as a back up but I have NEVER had to use it. I think it just felt nice to have a fall back if it got really sticky. I also bring a neutral pouch in with me as well...once they seem like they are over the meeting - I let them run in there and continue getting to know one another. Usually at that point, they are all good.

My way might not be the way for others...but it's worked for me numerous times. I hope the intro goes well for you!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This sounds like great advice.

Kim, the thing with Kai is this, we've tried intros the other day and she was more than willing and immediately tried to get on his back to groom and he crabbed and got upset and took off. Now pretty much he won't be still.

What I've done with my gliders is intro them in a neutral place, and once they snuggle up in the pouch together and are good, I put them into a CLEAN cage.

They are going to rub on each other -- rub their stink on one another, etc. They'll also be establishing who is the dominate one in the colony. Some things you just have to let them sort out under a watchful eye to make sure they don't fight.

She's already decided she's the dominant one. Omi was not so willing to give it up but Kai is far more submissive and now they are all together in the pouch. Sorry for the huge pic.





My colony of three is completed. Thanks for walking me through it guys. I know, I'll still watch them. How long do you have to watch though?

Oh good! I was just about to say that Jen is right - you just have to let them build a hierarchy. I am so glad it worked out!

Now my only problem is going to be getting the boys mealies. She seems to think she should get them all. I had to use tweezers to reach to the back to give them and hold her head down until they finished. No more sticking my hand in the pouch to pull Kai out for kisses. She'll tear me up. Now it's time to celebrate...I hope all goes good tonight. I knew she was ready by the way she barked to them and clung to the side of the cage. It was just a matter of overcoming my fears.