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kyro298 Glider Sprinkles      CO, USA 15262 Posts quote:
Originally posted by sldy63
Even if someone sends a picture to the manufacturer it is doubtful that will cause them to stop producing the wheels. Especially a person that was not directly affected. They make money on them. Probably the most they would do would be to offer to pay Vet bills, but most likely not even that since they wouldn't want to assume responsibility. They could just claim that the wheel was not cleaned or maintained properly, or that it was just a freak accident.
That's your opinion and quite frankly, a lazy mindset. You have no idea what they would do. If they had enough actual reports and documented proof, they'd have no choice but to stop. It's appalling everyone thinks it's enough to warn people on a forum. You do realize that there are probably hundreds and hundreds of people purchasing these that are NOT on forums, right? Using your analogy, if your child were riding their bike, got hit by a car and the doctor told you they fractured their skull because the helmet was made incorrectly, I guess you'd keep that to yourself? With "ALL" of these incidents, not one person has reported it to the vendor or manufacturer? No one has gone after the manufacturer for vet bills? It's easier to just wait here on the forum for people to post AFTER the injury occurred so you can say "Hey, ME TOO!". Makes no sense. Maybe some of you that have had injuries and have something documented from the vet should take 2 minutes to submit the information to the company that makes them. If you really want to help people and keep more gliders from getting injured, at least try to do something about it. Removing the wheels from your cages is fine and dandy, but doesn't help the next person AND they still have your money. nolaglider Super Glider USA 243 Posts Now that this has turned into a very heated discussion (and i use that word loosely lol) I will just state my quick .02 cents about this topic and back out. Like many of the others have said the wodent wheels have been known to cause injury etc. Gliders 'leap' or 'jump' while on their wheels more so than run. The bar on the wodent wheel doesnt allow this which is why everyone tends to go with wheels like the CC, raptor or stealth wheel. Also bc they are safer. Here is a video showing how gliders 'run' on their wheels, you decide for yourself.
nolaglider Super Glider USA 243 Posts Here is another video proving that gliders dont just jump like this bc theres another glider in the wheel with them. WARNING: There is music on both videos I posted so if your at the office or something you may want to turn your sound down.
TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes 3524 Posts OP, you asked if Wodent wheels are bad & you received an earful of opinions. I wanted to add my thoughts and to attempt to summarize points addressed in this thread to avoid farther confusion, if possible, by my own conclusions. By my own conclusion, I mean that what I understand people are trying to say along with how I personally handled the information on the WW & why. I've read most of the posts on this thread and I feel I understand what kyro is trying to get across. If I'm wrong kyro, please correct me. That documentation of any proof taken to the manufacturer, may, if enough of it is proven, could stop the production of this wheel or find ways to eliminate the dangers associated. Kyro is merely suggesting, from how I understand it, that this would be a process that should be considered to make a difference, because just warning people on forums such as this is not enough. Now, I bought a Wodent wheel, the first wheel I bought my girls because the wheel they came with was really chewed up. I thought the green WW would look better in their habitat anyway. After posting photos of said wheel in my girls habitat, I was given mixed opinions along with some suggestions to remove it and get a safer wheel, some safer wheels were suggested. I did eventually remove the WW and put their original one in until I could afford another wheel, which I eventually got a Fast Track & it is loved. The WW was then disabled and used as a play bin on the floor of cage & it is loved. The reason I chose to follow advice was for the 1st and most important=SAFETY, didn't think it was worth the risk after reading a post on a detachment of tail from glider. Prior to that post, I had mixed reviews on it and was giving it a benefit of doubt. & 2nd = PITB to clean properly, which needed to be done for safety reasons as well as odor related. The reason I first got the WW was because for one, it was advertised as "glider safe", it looked good, and the hide-a-holes looked like it would be fun for the girls (turns out they are when used as a play bin), I saw photos of them in cage set-ups when I was researching how to set up my girls habitat. Personally, I would love to see this wheel at the least to have a warning relating to the possible dangers to the gliders if not properly maintained or for whatever reasons that can facilitate these injuries, or at least not recommended for gliders. I have seen this wheel on a website, and I believe some member actually shared this with me when I was discussing my WW on a pass thread. It's called a Rapid Runner, but I haven't found anyone's post on who actually uses one, and it's never been mentioned in recommendations, although it looks as safe as the others that are. http://sugargliderwheels.webs.com/
It is to my understanding that this Wheel debate has been going on for a while, and that the WW & similar types have been in use for a long time & still advertised as "glider safe". The number of cases of injury during that period of time, I couldn't tell you, but just reading the one thread about that poor glider loosing it's tail that lead me to change mine out was enough for me. Even though some use them & have for years with no problem, I couldn't get the poor little glider off my mind or even try to imagine it was one of my girls. That's why I wouldn't use one. OP, I recommend if you haven't gotten a WW as of yet, to please just save up the extra money for one of the other kinds that have been suggested or mentioned in this thread. It's worth the peace of mind it gives you and also is easier to keep clean, which is healthier for your babies and easier on your nose. sldy63 Super Glider 282 Posts quote:
Originally posted by kyro298
quote:
That's your opinion and quite frankly, a lazy mindset. You have no idea what they would do. If they had enough actual reports and documented proof, they'd have no choice but to stop. It's appalling everyone thinks it's enough to warn people on a forum. You do realize that there are probably hundreds and hundreds of people purchasing these that are NOT on forums, right?
Using your analogy, if your child were riding their bike, got hit by a car and the doctor told you they fractured their skull because the helmet was made incorrectly, I guess you'd keep that to yourself?
With "ALL" of these incidents, not one person has reported it to the vendor or manufacturer? No one has gone after the manufacturer for vet bills? It's easier to just wait here on the forum for people to post AFTER the injury occurred so you can say "Hey, ME TOO!". Makes no sense.
No, you read my post wrong. According to my analogy, if I refused to wear a helmet just because I never saw a picture of a child with a head injury that would be a dangerous decision. Just as I think it's dangerous to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. I did not mention a defective helmet. If you reread my post I believe you will see this. You say that I don't know what they would do, but you yourself are making a huge assumption by stating that not one person has made a complaint to the manufacturer or a vendor. Do you have documented proof that not one person has ever made a complaint to a vendor or the manufacture? Can you prove to us without a doubt that no one's vet bills have been covered, or that there has been no out of court settlement? Have you spoken with every single person that has had a glider with this injury? And I'm lazy because I don't hire a lawyer and sue a company for something that didn't happen to me?????? Just how far would that law suit go? I am just being realistic. I think it's safe to assume that the company that manufactures the wheels have a lot more money to spend on lawyers than most glider owners do. Just because you have documented proof that something is dangerous does not mean that they would be forced to stop making that item. Have you heard of a product called cigarettes? There is a ton of documented proof that it kills people, and even harms people that don't smoke, yet they still sell this product. And yes, I'm very well aware that most people that buy the wheels do not go on forums. I bought 3 of them myself before I heard of the suspected dangers. I got rid of them. Yes, I wish they would stop making them, or modify them. And I'll admit I don't know the answer to this, but does the manufacturer even claim it's for sugar gliders, or was it made for a hamster, and the vendors are the ones that claim they are for sugar gliders. Granted, there is no way they don't know what they are used for, but if they are not making the claims, it would be the vendors you'd be able to sue. I never said that people should not complain. If it had happened to me I would have. Just what do you think the people on this forum are supposed to do? Most of the people that have responded to this have not personally had this happen to them. You're blasting them for not getting the word out about the dangers of this product to the world in general. How do you propose that they do that? sierranevadaK Face Hugger USA 804 Posts Hey! Just thought that I'd contribute to this conversation a little bit. I, personally use the Raptor wheel. I had heard some stories about the Wodent Wheel being unsafe, and I decided that I rather get a wheel with a good record. I also noticed with the "Wodent" wheel is that it is called "Wodent", I'm guessing as in rodent. That kind of hinted to me that they are geared more towards rodents, like mice, hamsters, gerbils, and rats. Since gliders aren't rodents, I just thought that it would be better, for me, to purchase a wheel that was actually made for sugar gliders. That doesn't mean that the Wodent Wheel is a terrible wheel and I'm not going to freak at anyone for purchasing them! I think when it comes to wheels, you just have to look around and decide which wheel that you think is best. Every one has their different opinions. I really like the Raptor Wheel, some people really like the Stealth, Fast Track, or Custom Cruiser. Some people just like the Wodent Wheel. Personally, I'd just rather buy a wheel that is actually made for our unique little critters. I think the pissing matches need to come to a stop. Tj's post summarized what matters the most that should be taken from this thread/subject. We do not need, nor want to see our members bickering amongst each other continued. A lot of these fights occur because of miscommunication. You do not know what type of inflections people mean to put behind their words, and we can easily read into what someone meant incorrectly. This is the downfall of being behind a computer screen and not face to face. I suggest from here on, we agree to disagree and leave it at that, or else it's going to be an ongoing instigation, and it is severely depressing. :{ Please, do continue to post your opinions and experiences. But the cheap jabs in regards to things you do not agree with, need to stop. :{ If you can't be polite, and not condencending, then at the very least please take it to Private Messages.
Some photos from our members fazioli Face Hugger 906 Posts quote:
Originally posted by kyro298
Since my post ALSO needs to be re-read and I didn't call anyone lazy, have repeatedly asked people if they've reported this to the manufacturer (even before others attacking me were ever even members)and have not blasted anyone, you all can have your thread back. My points have fallen on mostly deaf ears. It will continue to blow my mind that people are so defensive at the fact that I personally think there should be more documented proof so something can actually be done about it. My fault.
People read what they want to anyway and miss the important stuff as always. If simply taking the wheels out and waiting for others to report their misfortune is all that can be done, so be it. I've stated my opinion on many threads about this. There's no need for me to repeat myself any longer.
For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. I think these people are totally missing your point, and I think most are overlooking the fact that some of us have been around on these forums a lot longer and have read many posts regarding the debate on the Wodent wheel. If there are supposed accidents involving gliders and the Wodent wheel, there should be no problem for these people to document the incident. Just because some say they are unsafe, doesn't necessarily make it so unless there is documented proof. With that being said, everyone has the ability to do their own reading to decide if they think the Wodent wheel is safe or not. And then they can decide if they want to use the wheel or not. I have had Wodent wheels for over 2 years, but just a few months back decided to get the Raptor wheels. No, I didn't replace them because I thought they were unsafe, I just decided to change things up a bit for my gliders. I never once had a single issue with them. mistresslynn Super Glider 233 Posts Ive never had a wodent wheel. I do agree with the thoughts that if enough people documented injuries with the ww and sent them to the company then maby they could make them safer or pull them. Alot of companys will not do anything unless theres proof. In the end, theres enough info out there for everyone to decide what they think is best for there pet. I like my raptor! sldy63 Super Glider 282 Posts quote:
Originally posted by kyro298
Since my post ALSO needs to be re-read and I didn't call anyone lazy, have repeatedly asked people if they've reported this to the manufacturer (even before others attacking me were ever even members)and have not blasted anyone, you all can have your thread back. My points have fallen on mostly deaf ears. It will continue to blow my mind that people are so defensive at the fact that I personally think there should be more documented proof so something can actually be done about it. My fault.
People read what they want to anyway and miss the important stuff as always. If simply taking the wheels out and waiting for others to report their misfortune is all that can be done, so be it. I've stated my opinion on many threads about this. There's no need for me to repeat myself any longer.
You said I had a lazy mindset so I think that is calling me lazy, but really that is okay. I will accept that wasn't your intention. I would rather you call me whatever you want, than have you feel that you need to censor your opinion. I haven't seen anyone disagree with the fact that documentation would be great. Sadly, it's just not there. Most people are not going to have the presence of mine to think about documenting the injury. They are just thinking about taking care of their baby. This is true for many injuries even to humans. And I think people were defensive of the fact that you seemed to be discounting the reports of injuries as untrue since there was not documented proof. It appeared that you were supporting the product, and condemning anyone that spoke against it. I'm not saying that is what you meant, but that is how it appeared to be interpreted. You seem to be more optimistic about being able to make a change, and I'm more pessimistic, and see the obstacles. I hope that you can bring about change since you are so passionate about gliders. For what it's worth, I think that the percentage that a glider will be injured on the wheel is pretty low, but any chance is too high for me. quote:
Originally posted by Catman
Sinnipai , there is a lot more going on then just a pissing match.This could easily be used to sell a product(wheels) and talk bad about their competitor. With out any kind of proof, it is just someones opinion.
Anything you put in the cage can injure your pet, especially something with moving parts,this includes ANY wheel.
"Wodent Wheel is the only exercise wheel ever recommended and approved by the ASPCA during their Seal of Approval program (1999-2006). "
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/wodent-wheel.htm
nolaglider, we have seen those videos before. Kazko,the owner of this web site, took the videos and posted them here. He also has 14 wodent wheels.
I feel I need to further comment on this. I do agree with Kyro on wanting documentation/proof. However, I don't agree with the unnecessary attacks on each other's characters/intelligence that have been posted. I didn't want to state specifics or quotes. Okusandman: "or you have a seriously bad case of denial" - Attacking intelligence, not necessary. Kyro: "Either you don't read or you don't comprehend." - Attacking intelligence, not necessary. Kyro: "What is wrong with you??" - Can be seen as attacking one' character, not necessary. Kyro: "a lazy mindset" - Attacking one's character, not necessary. You can debate something without resulting to demeaning your opponents character. I'm not saying they need to stop debating, I'm saying they need to stop throwing low blows and keep things civil.
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