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  |  ANBO94
Joey
58 Posts
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Oct 01 2006 : 06:52:26 PM   |
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HELP! my 2 girls squeal and make sharp wierd noises at night! They pouch they are sleeping in shakes and moves so i know something is happening. (Yes they r both girls...) The littler one looks kind of beat up. She has bald spots above her eyes and her fur looks all ruffled up. They bigger one looks fine but seemd to look sweaty i guess but when i tought her she isn't wet? Some friends told me they might be fighting but they are sisters and have been together since birth! would they fight? or is it just play?
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 | Rita
Cuddle Bear
    MO, USA
10920 Posts
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Oct 01 2006 : 06:58:47 PM  |
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Sounds like you need to put them in separate cages for awhile and then re-introduce them when the little one is well and not stressed. You could lose her if you arent careful...
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| Marie 101
Super Glider
USA
502 Posts
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Oct 01 2006 : 07:43:49 PM  |
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ya i agree you should seperate them for a month or so
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| FaceHugs
Face Hugger
1247 Posts
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Oct 01 2006 : 09:30:38 PM |
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They are fighting and fro your other posts, I believe it is over food. If there isnt enough and they arent getting the proper nutrition every night, they will fight for what is there and it can be to the death .Please choose one of the diets I listed for you and get them one it ASAP! (Please dont let people pressure you into one diet plan. Pick the one that will best work for you)
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| ANBO94
Joey
58 Posts
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Oct 02 2006 : 09:57:31 AM |
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Yeah I got this food from our vet and they have been doing better. they are coming out at night now and not sleeping to much. But i odnt have another cage and i dont have enough for one.
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| FaceHugs
Face Hugger
1247 Posts
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Oct 02 2006 : 10:08:15 AM |
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What food did your vet give you? There are NO foods that you can buy premade that are good for gliders. Also, anything dry, hard, or pelleted is a HUGE NO NO!
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| ANBO94
Joey
58 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 08:57:53 PM |
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I got this stuff called Glider Grub , Vita-Glider and Love Bug powder. They love it and are happy aad healthy gain.
I found out that they arent fighting! The bigger on does this thing called Barbering. it is where she grooms the maller one so much in starts to hurt and she loses hair. It is okay though. the vet said put them in seperate pouches on diffrent sides of the cage and it will be fine.
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| FaceHugs
Face Hugger
1247 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 09:00:46 PM |
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Those are not a good diet for your glider. Gliders are not designed to eat dried foods.We have found that vets have no clue generally when it comes to what a glider should eat. I HIGHLY suggest checking out the links I psoted for you and foolowing one of them instead and not using the crap the vet sold you!
Edited by - FaceHugs on Oct 03 2006 09:01:42 PM
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| FaceHugs
Face Hugger
1247 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 09:02:45 PM |
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Also, the Vita-Glider has been shown to be mostly ground up corn with little to no viatamins. Your glider also needs calcium suppliments.
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| Kissed82
Face Hugger
USA
1097 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 09:33:55 PM |
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"you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink"
you come here, ask questions, get answers then don't listen to what you are told. I doubt your vet is trained in glider care if your vet is selling you premade junk and calling it a diet.
You will not get anything from this site unless you are willing to try the things we suggest. Everyone that is giving you answers for all your questions knows a little something about gliders and if you take what we all say and put it together I am sure your gliders will be just fine.
That is my .02
Please don't ask for help if you really don't want it. We all take time out of our days to come here ask and answer questions.
We want to help, but do you want help or just someone to chat with?
~I am very sorry if I seem upset, but taking all these abused, abandoned, neglected, hurt, sick gliders in, because people get them then refuse to care for them...... I feel bad for the gliders and I am starting to feel very angry to those that let these glider get this way. I don't want anyone offended by what I am saying. But there really is not enough rescue homes out there for these guys. If you own a glider, please, please, treat them like you would want to be treated. Don't let your glider end up a rescue. Please. Last I checked we KNOW of about 800 rescue gliders, how many are out there that we don't know about and we cant save...... just something to think about~
~tears~
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| FaceHugs
Face Hugger
1247 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 09:40:42 PM |
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AMEN!
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| Rita
Cuddle Bear
MO, USA
10920 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 09:58:31 PM |
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The Glider Grub, Love Bugs & Vita- Glider is EXACTLY what the person who sold me Tilly suckered me into buying a years worth of - he said that I wouldnt be able to find Suggie food in Missouri and I believed him. Well - I spent over $150 on this stuff and it is pretty much garbage to me now. 
ANB094 - please dont feel badly. As you can see, I did the same thing because I didnt know any better then. But I do now - And I have a years supply of this stuff in my freezer that I really dont have a clue what to do with. I am trying to find out if there is some little animal out there that CAN thrive on it. I hate to see it all go to waste if there is an animal who can eat it and be healthy. Also, I guess that if we had a horrible storm or some other major catastrophe - the Suggies could eat it in a pinch. But that would be the only time I would feed my suggies the Glider Grub.
Tilly had been fed all the above for serveral weeks before I got her. I can see such a difference in her coat now that she has been eating BML, veggies, fruits and mealies - and her eyes are so sparkly. And they got a perfect score on their wellness exam.
So, please dont think that any of us are trying to beat you up. Just learn from our mistakes. Your Suggies will be so much better off if you do. There are people here who have had Suggies for many years. I dont know about you, but I really appreciate their advice. And if Im doing something that could potentially harm Tilly & Tosca - I want to be told so that I can do something different. It is constructive criticism and we have all been in the hot seat. I thank all the people here who take the time to answer questions that they have already answered a million times before. They do it out of the goodness of their hearts and their love for Suggies. It is their desire that all Suggies live a happy, healthy life in a forever home. Please listen - and learn all you can from them. There is a wealth of information right here at the click of your mouse.
Keep coming back and asking those questions! We all have so much more to learn about our very unusual little furbabies. 
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| Eric Coleman
Fuzzy Wuzzy
TX, USA
2191 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 10:27:28 PM |
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ANBO94, what are the ingredients to "Glider Grub, Vita-Glider and Love Bug powder." Besides ingredients, what is there any nutriional information listed on the items?
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| mel
Fuzzy Wuzzy
TX, USA
2464 Posts
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Oct 03 2006 : 11:49:12 PM |
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I also got rid of the dry stuff and use a proven diet. The dry stuff benefits businesses on shelving and manufacturing. Searching out info I have learned there are NOT many knowledgeable suggie vets. They are an exotic pet that enough research has not been gathered to properly include in studies. You need to ask questions that might indicate thier experience just as I now realize the same of breeders. Don't trust what the breeder or vet told you. Do an extensive research to better inform yourself and create a list of questions based off of your research for the vet. I prefer to listen to those who have dealt with gliders for many years and particularly those who are able to nurse ill gliders back to health.
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| ANBO94
Joey
58 Posts
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Oct 04 2006 : 10:23:14 PM |
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Luv ugs stuff has wax worm , cricket, blue berries, cherries and apple , bananas, grapes and meal worms. They love it. i haven't read the ingredients to the other 2 but i will let you know.
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| Cy
Face Hugger
SC, USA
1409 Posts
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Oct 05 2006 : 10:42:40 AM |
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Ummm Kissed, .... the count is up to 951 rescues ....... of the reported homes, not all homes are reporting in... I'll have to update that count for you....
ANBO94, okay this is going to be a 'really long post'!
Even girls in one cage together, sisters or not.... one WILL be a more dominant. Sounds like you have dominance issues, and Hugs is right, it "could" be over food, or something else. I think you may be starving them, myself. And when I say "starving" them, I mean starving them of the foods and the nutrition that these type of pets need. How do you measure the ratios?? Do you measure the ratios? Have you looked at the ingredients and each drop they eat to discover the ratios? When I say 'ratios', do you know what I mean?
PLEASE, do your glider a favor and READ this post.
I would like to tell you just a couple of things;
Foremost, your diet for this type of exotic pet is not a proven diet, nor is it in any way healthy for a sugar glider nutritionally. Which many others have already told you. The ratios are what you want to consider to feed a healthy diet; when I say 'ratios', I mean the Ca:Ph balance of the Overall diet, which is everything your gliders ingest throughout every day of their lives, and this is what will dictate their long term health.
Okay a quick explanation for you (and I have typed this 'til my fingers are about to fall off, but I'll type it all out again, just for you):
When we talk about “proven diets” on Glider knowledgeable websites, we are talking about a diet comprised of many things; protein, fruits, veggies, calcium, other vitamins and an acceptable amount of phosphorus, also one that has been fed to gliders and has shown over the years to be healthy for your "captive" sugar glider. Phosphorus can be found in lots of different foods, but the "balance" of the Calcium and Phosphorus is what is SO VERY IMPORTANT.
For every gram of phosphorus ingested in a diet, the body must match that with another gram of calcium before the phosphorus can be absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the storage depots in the bones. In other words, you don’t want calcium being removed from and decreasing bone integrity, which causes a bone degrading disease called HLP or Hind Leg Paralysis.
This is where the whole idea of calcium-phosphorus ratios comes in. The purpose of calculating such a ratio is to make sure that for every gram of phosphorus you're feeding, you're feeding AT LEAST an equal amount of calcium (a 1:1 ratio or better), so that calcium isn't being continually mobilized from bones. The ideal levels are between 1.2 to 2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus. BML is 2:1.
Gliders in the U.S. are not in their native environment, and we (in the U.S.) cannot give the nutrients they receive in the wild. Another glider lover named Bourbon, and a Zoologist Nutritionalist researched to get a diet as close as possible to what is fed to the captive gliders in zoos in Australia, and did so with much success, using products found here in the U.S. This diet is called the BML (Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters)Diet. The original Leadbeaters diet contains High Protein Baby food that is available ONLY in some countries including Australia, but is no longer available here in the U.S., so Bourbon and the zoologist nutritionalist put together a comparable diet for us to feed our U.S. gliders.... Bourbon's gliders have been on BML for 10 plus years (Baybe is 14 years old now) and all of her gliders have strived and are very happy and healthy.
There are other proven diets but when I say proven, you must consider the nutritional value of EVERYTHING that you feed.... the proteins, fruits, veggies and even the insects.
Also, when you just start adding calcium to their diet, please know that too much is just as bad as not enough. Too much calcium can harden their liver and is very hard on their little kidneys, you won’t see the damage, due to the damage being internal. So I would definitely re-think the diet you are feeding. How do you measure the calcium and the vitamins? This is another one of my concerns with your diet.
Also, I wanted to tell you that hard pellets or hard crunchy cat food type foods or reptile iguana foods, or bird foods can cause lots of problems for your suggies, they could scratch the gums or mouth and cause an abscess (infection) which is that similar to the symptoms of Lumpy Jaw, and lead to more serious problems including death, after a huge cost to you by Veterinary care, and ultimate slow death. Gliders are sap suckers and extract the liquids from the foods that they eat, spitting out the pulp and solid.
The dietary items that you listed are not the balance that you need for your suggies.
I understand and I know your intentions are very noble and worthy, but you need to understand that we have been caring for and posting information about gliders here for a long time, with the intention to educate the glider lovers out there as to the best care for them for their long term health.
I am seriously afraid for your glider and also that your glider may become very ill, and then, you know what? You won't be able to say, "I did my best", because I'm telling you RIGHT NOW, You aren't. My name is Cy Horne (Cycy on many boards). Ask about me on any of the big boards, they all know me.
I don't care much for what your vet has to say. Being an exotic vet, he/she may not include the exotic care of a glider. I have two vets, both specialize in exotics, one is glider friendly and knowledgeable, and the other just knows birds and reptiles, but I'm working on her. You start working on yours, and maybe he/she WILL learn a thing or two to help all the gliders. Your gliders.
I hope that you don't take this post as an insult, I commend you for your wonderful welcome of these sugar gliders into your home, but I am trying to point you in the right direction for you to care for your beloved little gliders, just as everyone else has been attempting to do.
Another little thing I wanted to vent to you; (And I say this for myself, too!!):
Unless you, your vet (or even myself) are educated nutritionalists, or Sugar Glider anatomists, (which there are very few out there), it's best to stick to one of the proven diets, just like I do. Not the one your vet implies to be proven, and that's not just my opinion, but it's a fact.
Edited by - Cy on Oct 05 2006 10:53:01 AM
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