We need to include the various diets in our Gliderpedia. It has been very weak in diet and health information. This tells me that nobody here can manage to do the work on this stuff so I guess it's up to me to do it.

I am curious what others think about listing diets? I think it would be wise to include information about when and where and who created the diet, when it was first seen and used and other history. Knowing the history of a diet helps people to understand much more about it.

For instance, I only now just realize that HPW is just a modified BML on honey steroids with some additional expensive and useless powder crap from Australia. And wasnt it Peggy Brewer who had to tweak the bml to her fancy for her book and call it HPW and then now we come to realize that she has been breeding birds for ages to let her gliders kill them and eat them raw. Doesnt do much good for her diet or book does it.

I have been very successful with the way that I feed and just havent spent time caring about all of these other 'official' 'tested' 'diets' that people are pulling out of their butts and sharing as officially tested by some government entity. Since 99% of people coming into chat have heard about BML or HPW or some other early death mechanism for their animals, I guess it's time that I know what all of this junk is and have it listed in the Gliderpedia so that people can be made aware of things.

Someone help me here with some suggestion or direction?

Maybe a few people would each be willing to take one diet and do some "homework". I can do one. Anyone else?

First, perhaps a list of diets can be compiled in this discussion. There are more than just BML and HPW.
Second, start with Kazko's diet in the gliderpedia to make it apparent that it's not proven, official, or tested in any way. Probably best to lead by example.

Wow - way to start off an unbiased diet discussion and open it up to a bashing free-for-all!

I don't think this was actually meant for a diet discussion but more of a push to get different diets listed in the Gliderpedia for people's reference. I'm assuming each diet would list it's origin, contents, nutritional info and references...without opinion?

From Suz's site:

Back to Basics BML (Bourbon's Modified Leadbeater's Mix)
Darcy's Diet
HPW (High Protein Wambaroo) Diet
PML (Pocket's Modified Leadbeater's)
Suncoast Diet
The Sugar Glider Exotic Diet
Overseas BML Recipe (for use in Eurasian & African countries)

That I can think of:

Taronga Zoo Diet
Priscilla Price
Healesville Diet(although can't remember if this is an actual diet or just a "diet" that Healesville uses)

Personally - I'd like to know what the actual, original Leadbeaters mix is?

The Healseville Sanctuary diet and the Taronga Zoo diet are full diets used by these Zooilogical institutions.

I am concerned an old Australian diet is cropping up developed by R Booth over ten years ago and is not cuurently used in any Australian Zoos. Basicaly it is bandied around in many exotic vet sites outside of Australia, bascially it is full of brown sugar and is professed to be similar to there wild diet, which I would dispute. I think it may be pushed by over seas vets as the ingriedience is easier to get than many other diets, my biggest concern with this diet again is teh high sugr content and the period of time this diet may have been tested. seeing the Zoo do not follow this diet I am not sure what gliders would have been on this diet long term. Not all states in Australia allow captive bred gliders as pets so they are still a relative new pet however the Zoos have had them in captivity with great success with diets and health since the early 1960's.

Maybe Des Hacketts leadbeater mix although again just a kitchen diet should be mentioned seeing he was the first guy that we know of in Australia to sucessfully keep and breed both Sugar Gliders and the endangered leadbeater possum. I believe the developed ectar mix used by teh Zoos these days was developed with teh knowledge that Des imparted. Des had no nutritional knowlegde nor background to develop this nectar.

Maybe we could add my vets diet suggestions. They told us ont he phone thats what the zoo (I can assume akron/canton or maybe cleveland) fed their insectivores.

I think a list of diets would be GREAT! Along with some pros and cons of use, who uses it now, how long they've been using it, etc. I think the main problem with HPW or BML or Darcy's, Pricilla's, etc. is there is no one "standardized" version of the diet. WAY confusing for newbies!

Peggy Brewer didn't tweak the BML diet, she tweaked the PML diet (aka Pocket's Modified Leadbeater's) with the help of a very well-known glider vet. I've heard stories of many gliders that have been switched over to HPW from something else & have had improved weight, improved health, improved smell, and overall better looking fur as well. The HPW powder isn't useless. It contains vitamins & nutrients & protein. It would be similar to the vitamin supplement used in BML but with other nutrients. I'm not saying either diet (BML or HPW) is better than the other. They're both widely approved by glider owners & have been used for many years successfully.

I have some really good diet info on my website.
Diet basics: www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/sugar-glider-diet-basics.html
Diet recipes: www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/sugar-glider-diet-recipes.html
This is how we feed HPW to our gliders (HPW made simple): www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/ssg-complete-hpw-diet.html

I definitely have more to keep adding. I see that you are using my site for your BML link. You are more than welcome to link to my other diet recipes or any info that you find helpful.

Misty

I know Ed from Luckyglider has a modified recipe that he did a lot of research on. I would be more than happy to research two diets and post the findings. Just let me know which two after the list is compiled.

quote:

---

Originally posted by suggieluvr

I know Ed from Luckyglider has a modified recipe that he did a lot of research on. I would be more than happy to research two diets and post the findings. Just let me know which two after the list is compiled.

---

It is here in the nutrition section. After doing our research and comparing it to other diets, we decided to actually type-in all of the ingredients to the recipe calculator to show it to everyone:

http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=36

After some experimenting with BML and HPW, we decided on our own mix. HPW showed good results in fattening-up malnourished rescue gliders, but it is upside-down Ca:P wise. After doing our own analysis of HPW because Peggy either did not want to do it for anyone or did not know how, we found out about the upside-down problem with it and went off to make our own recipe.

There are three tragic flaws we have found with some of the "popular" diets:

1. The makers for some reason do not publish the nutritional breakdown and therefore force other people to do that. The makers are often arrogant, hostile, or sometimes ignorant of simple nutritional basics.

2. The makers often advocate the use of "fruits and veggies" on the side of the main diet and those mixes are also hilariously upside-down.

3. Paying outrageous prices for imported vitamin-spiked soy isolates is stupid. There are plenty of vitamin-spiked soy isolates and whey products here in the U.S. The LGRS suggie soup uses one, but only one lousy tablespoon per big batch, so it's a small, small ingredient.

Ed, this is more of a general question but, where are the instructions on how to make it? Every diet/recipe I see never has the instructions..:)

http://files.meetup.com/768852/LGRS_SuggieSoup.pdf

That link doesn't work lol

Weird! That's the one I always use. Ed???

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mrpianowizard

Ed, this is more of a general question but, where are the instructions on how to make it? Every diet/recipe I see never has the instructions..:)

---

If you follow the nutritional analysis URL I posted above
( www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=36 )....... you will see at the very top of that page a notes section where it says: "Mixing, Preparation, and other useful instructions are available on: files.meetup.com/768852/LGRS_SuggieSoup.pdf "....

That's the same link, isn't it,

quote:

---

Originally posted by kyro298

Weird! That's the one I always use. Ed???

---

yes, that's the right URL. I tried it just now and it works....

If anyone has trouble, they can email me at ed@luckyglider.org for the document.

Also, here are the most important excerpts from the document:

LGRS Suggie Soup Recipe (2.12:1 Ca:Ph Ratio)

Introduction

The LGRS Suggie Soup is an economical, lower-fat, lower cholesterol, higher calcium, higher protein recipe than similar recipes that use expensive, imported ingredients. This is the standard recipe for all rescues and animals being rehabilitated at Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary. You can dilute the finished product with water and syringe feed it to gliders who are suffering from metabolic bone disease or hind leg paralysis. It is important to first take malnourished gliders to the vet as they are often candidates for a subcutaneous calcium injection and other treatments.

Batches and Freezing

One "batch" of this recipe will produce about 7 cups. With a two tablespoon serving per glider per day, a batch would last a pair gliders two months, depending on waste. You need to keep the bulk of your batch frozen and only transfer amounts needed for a few days at a time into the refrigerator. Please note that as a rescue we err on the side of over-feeding especially when nursing malnourished rescues back to health You may be able to cut back the portions to a tablespoon and a half if the glider is generally healthy. You can water the formula down if they are getting fat. A full grown adult male should be about 150 grams. Gliders that get out of their cage every night and exercise for a few hours usually don't get fat.

DISCLAIMER:

— Show this recipe to your veterinarian.
— Let your veterinarian decide if its contents are good for your pet.
— LGRS Suggie Soup is only one part of an overall diet plan.
— See the compote section to learn more on foods to feed with the soup.
Veterinarians: a comprehensive nutritional analysis of LGRS Suggie Soup is
published on www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=36

Ingredients

1 cup of canned Mango juice or liquefied fresh Mango
1 cup of canned Papaya juice or liquefied fresh Papaya
2 cups of Calcium & Vitamin D fortified Orange Juice
2 cups of Filtered Honey ((see footnote 1)
1/4 cup of Plain, Low-Fat Yogurt (kind with 12g protein per half pint)
1 small scrambled egg
1 Tablespoon of Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy (see footnote 2)
1 Tablespoon of powdered, Dehydrated Fly Pupae (see footnote 3)
2 Tablespoons of powdered Bee Pollen (see footnote 4)

Preparation

1. Cook and scramble egg, set aside to cool

2. With a blender, powder the bee pollen and dehydrated fly pupae together so it is one fine powder and set aside

3. Warm honey using a hot water bath method or microwave.

4. Mix warmed honey and juices in blender

5. Add protein powder and yogurt to the juice and honey mixture. Blend till smooth [depending on the size of your blender. You may need to blend the rest in stages]

6. Add egg and pollen/pupae mix into the liquid ingredients. Blend until smooth.

7. Pour into small freezer-safe containers for freezing use containers that you can put in the fridge with enough to last two or three days. If you have two gliders who will only eat two tablespoons per serving, those containers can be pretty small. You can freeze the soup in ice cube trays and pop the frozen cubes into freezer bags.

FOOTNOTES:

1) Do not use raw, comb, or unfiltered honey. Look for the world “filtered” or “pasteurized” on the label.
2) A nutritional analysis of Trader Darwin’s Vanilla Flavored Soy is on this web page:
www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/food.asp?ndbid=999989
If you cannot get this item in your area, other vitamin fortified soy isolate products will work, but compare them and try to come close to this nutritional profile.
3) Available from Oregon Feeder Insects Inc. 866.641.8938 www.OregonFeederInsects.com/
4) Available on line at www.BulkFoods.com

Yes, I'm sorry, I checked again right now and it works :). Sorry, it was probably my computer. It said that the website was unavailable or soemthing like that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mrpianowizard

Yes, I'm sorry, I checked again right now and it works :). Sorry, it was probably my computer. It said that the website was unavailable or soemthing like that.

---

no problem, let us know if you have any questions on the preparation. The recipe calculator here is a very useful tool in case you need to make changes.

Please note you want the dehydrated, not live fly PUPAE. Do NOT order the LARVAE. Whatever you do make sure you get the pre-dehydrated stuff because killing, cooking and drying it yourself is gory. Just ask Kylah

quote:

---

Originally posted by kyro298

---

still rolling on the floor over the "snap crackle pop" story you told. OMG!!!

Oh hahahaha, thank you Ed, but no thank you. I feed mine HPW. I just wanted to know where instructions were for ANY of the recipes in the diet section. That's why I said it was a general question :)

yeah i still laugh about that too...i just had a laughing moment and my husband looked at me stupid lol

At least someone's husband was laughing...mine was NOT. LOL

do you feed anything else with the SUGGIE SOUP or is that all you give them for the night, my little buggers are very picky eaters, so how well do they take to it

Yes, I still feed fruits, veggies and protein with it, just not as much as before.

There is a lot of orange juice in that recipe...I thought suggies could not have citrus all the time? At least that is what is written on a lot of breeder websites.....I'm not trying to ruffle feathers. I'm only asking for thorough knowledge.

Resa

I Am kinda new to all this diet mumbo jumbo. When I had my gliders before they were on a diet similar to what Sun Coast lists on their site: veggies, fruit, a protein source, and vitamins. They lived a LONG life and passed of natural causes/old age in 2004.

I have my gliders on BML right now but still offer yogurt and other things bc one glider will not eat as much of the BML as he should. I have contemplated trying the HPW plus or Instant to see if there is any change in the smell of my gliders....and bc I don't want to be restricted to certain veggies and fruits.

After bashing some diets that have worked for other people for obviously long times, what makes your diet better than the ones your bashing Kazko? I'm not trying to start anything bc as I said, I'm kinda new, but I have talked to a lot of people and asked a lot of questions for sake of my suggies babys' health. I really would like to know....I am always up for learning and making things better for my gliders.

Also, every single glider diet I have read on says feed insects...and live baby birds are just a substitute for that protein...they have less phosphorous than mealies from what I understand.


Again, I am not challenging anyone or their diet of choice, I am here to learn the truths about the actual diets, how long they have been around and what the gliders health was like....I couldnt care less who discovered them or what their protein sources are on the side...just if they are good and wholesome.

Thanks for all the info thus far!


Resa

Use of the words Diet Bashing ever again will result in your complete banning from this community. Thanks for digging up this post from 2009 guys.