I'm not against people having pets. If your a responsible person and you can handle an exotic and will assume responsibility of that animal until it dies, I think you should be able to have Lions or Tigers.

But not knowing the facts about the laws in your state and why they are illegal, it would be IRRESPONSIBLE for me or anyone to sign it!!

JediMasterMatt, weren't you just defending bad practices a few days ago? And now you want to change the laws? Slow down there big guy.

"Lets help all people of Pennsylvania have a 'choice'."

They do have a choice. If they want a glider that bad, move to a legal state.


"Secondly, I know there are a lot of people out there wanting to make $$$ off of sugar gliders, that is the reason I didn't want to go to places like PetSmart or Petco and pass out flyers or even e-mail PPP to get support for this petition. You can at least give me credit for having some scrupples."

I'm sure the pet stores and PPP's would love for you to get the laws changed with-out their help,money or resources.

See if you get support from the local rescue centers/ASPCA/Humane Society and the people that will ultimately end up with the gliders.

If your nephew wants to move to Colorado, I have 3 gliders he can have for free. I have to say no to Jamie now if our local Humane Society calls her about surrendered sugar gliders, I'm full!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Catman

I'm not against people having pets. If your a responsible person and you can handle an exotic and will assume responsibility of that animal until it dies, I think you should be able to have Lions or Tigers.

But not knowing the facts about the laws in your state and why they are illegal, it would be IRRESPONSIBLE for me or anyone to sign it!!

JediMasterMatt, weren't you just defending bad practices a few days ago? And now you want to change the laws? Slow down there big guy.

"Lets help all people of Pennsylvania have a 'choice'."

They do have a choice. If they want a glider that bad, move to a legal state.


"Secondly, I know there are a lot of people out there wanting to make $$$ off of sugar gliders, that is the reason I didn't want to go to places like PetSmart or Petco and pass out flyers or even e-mail PPP to get support for this petition. You can at least give me credit for having some scrupples."

I'm sure the pet stores and PPP's would love for you to get the laws changed with-out their help,money or resources.

See if you get support from the local rescue centers/ASPCA/Humane Society and the people that will ultimately end up with the gliders.

If your nephew wants to move to Colorado, I have 3 gliders he can have for free. I have to say no to Jamie now if our local Humane Society calls her about surrendered sugar gliders, I'm full!!!

---

Catman,

Why are you conatantly trying to start trouble with your 'they can move to other states' comments and more?

You are just being so ignorant, its sickening. Have you lived in Pennsylvania, have you read their laws??? Well, I grew up in Pennsylvania and I read the laws! The Pennsylvanai Game Commission claims the sugar glider as illegal just because its called an 'exotic' animal, no other reason than that! If you call the PGC as I have for my nephew, the employees have different answers everytime you speak to someone...some don't even know what a sugar glider is and they don't have a clear idea as to why they are illegal themselves.

And the other day, I was NOT defending bad practices, I was questioning the differences in opinions between this blog and what I have read on other websites. Some other members gladly educated me on the subjects and helped me understand those differences and who those 'other' people were.

As for you saying "They do have a choice. If they want a glider that bad, move to a legal state."....your just trying your best to be rude and offensive!

I come here for support and education on sugar gliders and all you want to do is argue and start fights....

Your comment on PPP and other mills???? keeping sugar gliders illegal in Pennsylvania is NOT going to put them (PPP) out of business...and if the USDA would do their job, making them legal in PA wouldn't make a difference!

quote:

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[i]. Have you lived in Pennsylvania, have you read their laws???

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NO, I haven't!!!!!!! THAT'S WHY I WOULDN'T SIGN ANYTHING!!!!

That would be the definition IGNORANT!!!(lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact).

"keeping sugar gliders illegal in Pennsylvania is NOT going to put them (PPP) out of business"

It will in Pennsylvania.

quote:

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Originally posted by Catman

quote:

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[i]. Have you lived in Pennsylvania, have you read their laws???

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NO, I haven't!!!!!!! THAT'S WHY I WOULDN'T SIGN ANYTHING!!!!

That would be the definition IGNORANT!!!(lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact).

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Its ashamed you have to be like this. You have made coming to and posting on this blog a horrible experience! Your comments are just designed to start arguments and fights.....but all this petition is for is having the state re-evaluate their position on sugar gliders, and possible give people in Pennsylvania the SAME opportunities the rest of us have whom live in states that allow them.

I will remain on this blog and always look to other experienced owners for guidance and education. With that being said, I hope that our paths never cross again, because I want assistance not harrasment.

Perhaps if you posted the pros and cons as to why they should be legal there with the supporting facts from both sides, then we can make the CHOICE to sign it or not.

It could have something to do with your local wildlife and possible threats to them.

catmans comments were not rude or ignorant in any way shape or form. They WERE honest, and they reflect HIS opinions. Some people dont like honesty and still others dont respect differing opinions.

he is right. too many people feel that having a pet is a right, but really its a priviledge.

quote:

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Originally posted by Stevos

catmans comments were not rude or ignorant in any way shape or form. They WERE honest, and they reflect HIS opinions. Some people dont like honesty and still others dont respect differing opinions.

he is right. too many people feel that having a pet is a right, but really its a priviledge.

---

If you would go back and read some of his comments, there are 'some' valid points but they are also laced with sarcastic comments as well!

It may not be a 'right' to own a sugar glider, but, the reasons he states for keeping them illegal is crap. Being afraid the PPP will set up shop is not a valid reason, being afraid uneducated people will buy gliders is not a valid reason, being afraid some may end up in shelters/SPCA is not a valid reason for keeping the majority of responsible pet owners from legally obtaining sugar gliders. The minority should not rule the majority.

quote:

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Originally posted by Catman

Perhaps if you posted the pros and cons as to why they should be legal there with the supporting facts from both sides, then we can make the CHOICE to sign it or not.

It could have something to do with your local wildlife and possible threats to them.

---

As I have told you before, the Pennsylvanaia Game Commission does not have a clear and precise reason sugar gliders are illegal. There are no clear reasons provided, except for the fact that they are tagged 'exotic' animals, and placed under their jurisdiction which makes them illegal to own. One such reason I verbally received is because they are illegal is because of public safety. How so when they pose no health threat to humans?

As for the pros and cons, you already know the pros and Pennsylvania does not offer a list or public statement on the cons of making sugar gliders legal.

ill give you scarcastic...im a very sarcastic person myself, so im usually blind to it

Matt, I do want to jump in and let you know that Catman is a wildlife rescuer. The only reason he has gliders is because he rescued them or was approached by others. Jamie (that runs Suggie Savers here in CO), is in Denver so when the Humane Society or anyone else in Colorado Springs calls her, she's called Scott to see if he might be able to help out. He gives them a home...a good one at that. I've even taken in two from the Humane Society because she's not taking any more in at this point. It truly isn't that he has his own little stash of pets so no one else should. He is naturally more defensive of animals as opposed to their owners due to the simple fact of what he has to deal with. Sarcasm is something lots of us have around here, unfortunately. That part you have to take with a grain of salt. No one means any harm.

quote:

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Originally posted by JediMasterMatt

quote:

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Originally posted by Catman

Perhaps if you posted the pros and cons as to why they should be legal there with the supporting facts from both sides, then we can make the CHOICE to sign it or not.

It could have something to do with your local wildlife and possible threats to them.

---

As I have told you before, the Pennsylvanaia Game Commission does not have a clear and precise reason sugar gliders are illegal. There are no clear reasons provided, except for the fact that they are tagged 'exotic' animals, and placed under their jurisdiction which makes them illegal to own. One such reason I verbally received is because they are illegal is because of public safety. How so when they pose no health threat to humans?

---

I think he was meaning the threat to wildlife and the natural environment, not to humans. I'm not saying it's valid, I'm just saying that I think that's what he meant. I'm also thinking I may have read that somewhere else before too. I'll see if I can find further info...

Interesting info here that also contains some informative links:

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/847764/1

So it looks like they became illegal in 1992 with the scare of monkey pox? (some of her info about which states are illegal is not current though):

http://passiton.today.com/2009/08/12/help-legalize-sugar-gliders-in-pennyslvania/

I also did happen to find a link to a new PPP site (at least, I've never seen or heard of it before so I'm not posting it) that states in PA, it's legal to have them solely as housepets. GREAT.

quote:

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Originally posted by kyro298

Matt, I do want to jump in and let you know that Catman is a wildlife rescuer. The only reason he has gliders is because he rescued them or was approached by others. Jamie (that runs Suggie Savers here in CO), is in Denver so when the Humane Society or anyone else in Colorado Springs calls her, she's called Scott to see if he might be able to help out. He gives them a home...a good one at that. I've even taken in two from the Humane Society because she's not taking any more in at this point. It truly isn't that he has his own little stash of pets so no one else should. He is naturally more defensive of animals as opposed to their owners due to the simple fact of what he has to deal with. Sarcasm is something lots of us have around here, unfortunately. That part you have to take with a grain of salt. No one means any harm.

---

Thank you for your post, and I can see where catman is coming from. I think this thread has gotten out of control, but the whole reason for this petition is to let other peole have the same opportunities that the rest of us have.

Yes, there are people who should never have ANY type of animal, animal abuse, ignorance of care, or neglect are sad and detestable acts...but I don't think that those reasons are enough to be against making sugar gliders legal....The same with the reason for worrying about PPP or other mills, they exist and will always exist until law enforcement and regulations catch up with them. But in the same token, you shouldn't punish/restrict 'responsible' owners because of the bad ones out there, if that was the case for all animals, all pets, dogs, cats, every animal would be off limits because there are too many abused and given up to shelters and sadly put down each year.

----------------------------------
CATMAN: I have no hard feelings about the posts, and I admire the work you do as a rescuer! Either I missed it, or you didn't mention it, but either way, thanks for doing what you do....my dog is a rescued pet.
----------------------------------


Matt

quote:

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Originally posted by kyro298

Interesting info here that also contains some informative links:

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/847764/1

So it looks like they became illegal in 1992 with the scare of monkey pox? (some of her info about which states are illegal is not current though):

http://passiton.today.com/2009/08/12/help-legalize-sugar-gliders-in-pennyslvania/

I also did happen to find a link to a new PPP site (at least, I've never seen or heard of it before so I'm not posting it) that states in PA, it's legal to have them solely as housepets. GREAT.

---

Kyro, Thanks for these links...perhaps the link you talk about from PPP about selling suggies into Pennsylvania can be used to get them into legal trouble, let's hope so.

JediMasterMatt

I signed it....

Wow.. Deep.... I am in a legal state. I wouldnt love my babies ANY less if I were in an illegal state. However I would not be irresponsible enough to to take my "children" to a place where they could be "extirminated" I LOVE my babies, I would move any day of the week to keep them safe. Please be considerate of your situation. This is my longest post ever.

I'm #22. We need lots more people!!!

JediMasterMatt no hard feelings,its all good. This is what sucks about the internet, not too many people actually know each other,where they are coming from or what they are up to.

I know there are some screwed up laws(we have them here too) and maybe when Pennsylvania changes its laws it can include stricter laws for the big breeders to keep the mills away, a free-for-all isn't the answer IMO.

quote:

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Originally posted by Catman

JediMasterMatt no hard feelings,its all good. This is what sucks about the internet, not too many people actually know each other,where they are coming from or what they are up to.

I know there are some screwed up laws(we have them here too) and maybe when Pennsylvania changes its laws it can include stricter laws for the big breeders to keep the mills away, a free-for-all isn't the answer IMO.

---

I agree, a 'free for all' is not the answer, and I am all for stricter rules on the breeders as well. When my nephew presents the petition to the PA Legislature Representatives, I will instruct him to also mention our concerns about 'glider mills'. Usually if an animal is taken off the restricted list it is placed under authority of the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture...he can also work with them on this.

...Also, perhaps when sugar gliders are removed from the restricted list he can have the PA Legislature draw up some regulations like prohibiting sugar glider sales from malls, fairs and open air markets within Pennsylvania....that should be a thorn in PPP's side!

You can get that ban removed from the law book rather quick if you suggest a mandatory $5 yearly registration fee for every sugar glider that is weaned. THEY never get lazy when free money is concerned.

I wonder how successful microchipping could be in gliders. It seems hard to lie about animals ages and such when they get microchipped. I'd be weary about chipping gliders though as they might just fixate on and eat that little bump out of their own skin...

quote:

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Originally posted by Kazko

You can get that ban removed from the law book rather quick if you suggest a mandatory $5 yearly registration fee for every sugar glider that is weaned. THEY never get lazy when free money is concerned.

I wonder how successful microchipping could be in gliders. It seems hard to lie about animals ages and such when they get microchipped. I'd be weary about chipping gliders though as they might just fixate on and eat that little bump out of their own skin...

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That's a good idea, I don't know ANY state that would turn down new fees...LOL

I don't see how gliders can be microchipped. I've had both of my dogs and both of my cats microchipped...the needle is H-U-G-E! I really don't think a glider could take it, them being so tiny. They would need to make a tinier chip and tinier needle. I also would bet they would try to pick at the spot after it was done. Would definately have to e-collar them.

I don't know if this is common practice or not but my friend at the aviary who is a huge proponent of microchipping won't even microchip my cockatiels because they are under 100 grams.

Tish -- they do have smaller ones with smaller needles but I still think that the gliders may be too small...except maybe our "chunky monkeys"!

Even if you COULD microchip a glider, could you imagine trying to scan it to read the chip! LOL!

Sorry, didn't mean to make light of a serious subject. I just had a silly mental image in mind.

Anyone else interetsted in signing and helping people in Pennsylvania become a legal state in which to own suggies? They need our help. Thanks!

37 signatures...

I singed.

I also know that suggies are illegal in East Baton Rouge Parish, LA.

48...whats the goal?

I just signed :)