<b>Sitting here, thinking..... HOW CAN I HELP?
How can YOU help?

In addition to the Big Raffle:
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Well... here is my idea... and you can help from anywhere in the country..... besides helping with the raffle and donating that way. If you wanted to send items that Lori needs directly to her... let's do that too!

SO... LORI? I'm asking if you will share your address, so we can send you some goody boxes for the rescue babies? Please....

So if Lori gives us a wish list, and address....... </b>

I'm seeing so many raffle, donation, raising money posts, etc... for this rescue. Is there a way to found out what's been covered already and what's still needed? I'll be honest, I haven't looked at Lori's site to read about each glider or the adoption policies so I have no idea...are there also adoption fees for them?

I spoke w/Lori a while ago... she's waiting for their fecals & blood labs to come back before any go anywhere... after that she'll have more news as far as adoptions and fosters.

I have 1 entry for the raffle and it's still going on. Raffle donations give you a chance to win a pouch set and possibly other items as well. She will be needing this money for the vet costs I'm sure.

So far I've had a total of $185 donated. The vet bills have been over $900 and will go higher. Right now I don't have any gliders that are cleared for adoption that aren't either adopted or too young to go home yet.
I appreciate everything that everyone has done to help. You guys are amazing! I haven't posted adoption fees or any more info on who's available because I have been to the vet 3x in the last 3 days. I'm more concerned about making sure that the gliders are taken care of so please don't think that I'm ignoring anyone.
I don't think I feel comfortable giving out my address on a public post but I appreciate what you are doing so much! I'll let everyone know when the rest of the gliders are able to be adopted.

I guess my question is if people are donating money AND paying adoption fees for them, how do we know what's left to be covered? I haven't seen the vet's info in case people want to donate directly either. That doesn't mean I haven't missed it somewhere. There are A LOT of threads about this. I'm not trying to start anything...I just know people are asking these questions and no one is saying it out loud.

I think this should stop until a few questions can be answered and can be verified.

I did not request this post. I did not request the raffle. I made people aware that I was spending money out of my own pocket to rescue these guys and I have NOT set a specific adoption fee for any of these rescues. I have allowed people to tell me what they can afford for the ones that were going to be ready to be adopted out first and that money has not even been collected and will not cover even the cost of the vet bills let alone the cost of the glider itself.
I did not have to put myself on the line and I didn't have to post what money has been donated and what money has been paid out for vet bills. I have been too busy trying to do what needs to be done for these gliders. I'm not being vague. I'm not hiding anything. I'm trying to make sure that we don't lose the 3 oldest gliders to liver and kidney failure.
I'm sorry if I sound short, but I am in a huge hole with these guys but I'm not complaining about it. I went into this knowing that I was losing money but it was worth it to get these guys out. I just don't like the insinuation that I am MAKING money on them. I am working with the USDA because there IS an investigation into the fact that this woman sold gliders after her license was revoked.

Well, you have to understand that this is on a PUBLIC forum where people are donating money and whether it's you asking for it or not, it's still being asked for. If people have questions, they have a right to ask.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />I guess my question is if people are donating money AND paying adoption fees for them, how do we know what's left to be covered? I haven't seen the vet's info in case people want to donate directly either. That doesn't mean I haven't missed it somewhere. There are A LOT of threads about this. I'm not trying to start anything...I just know people are asking these questions and no one is saying it out loud.
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I would donate if there were a way to donate directly to the vet.

I'm sorry if I started any issues. I just wanted to help. I'm just going to close the raffle and write Thehommermama a check. Can you pm me your address hun? I'll get it to you tomorrow.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by WintersSong</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />I guess my question is if people are donating money AND paying adoption fees for them, how do we know what's left to be covered? I haven't seen the vet's info in case people want to donate directly either. That doesn't mean I haven't missed it somewhere. There are A LOT of threads about this. I'm not trying to start anything...I just know people are asking these questions and no one is saying it out loud.
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I would donate if there were a way to donate directly to the vet.
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This was a suggestion a few days ago.

It IS a public forum and of course they have a right to ask. I have disclosed the amount that I have received and what the vet bill is so far. I'm not going to divulge the contract amount or anything to do with this breeder until this investigation is finished. I have not been focused on asking people for money...I've been focused on taking care of these guys.

Lori, I think right now people are requesting the name of the vet so they can donate directly to their health care. I know I personally feel better about making donations that way.

I understand that and when I can get that set up I will. My vet may not be able to handle everything that is going on with them so there is no point at the moment to set that up with him when he may not be able to take care of the major issues. Tomorrow I get the last of the blood work back and I will be discussing with him whether or not he can handle the issues with liver and kidney functions. He is a good vet...does neuters less expensively than others and can handle most situations but the older gliders may require extensive treatment.
If my vet can handle it then I'll give out his information. If not then I have to deal with a whole new vet.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm trying to make sure that we don't lose the 3 oldest gliders to liver and kidney failure. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sorry - I must have missed it. Why do you think that they have liver AND kidney failure? What are their symptoms? What tests were run? And what treatment is your vet suggesting?

Maybe it would be best if donations were held off until Lori is able to give out the information everyone is requesting such as adoption fees, total vet costs, and the price she paid for all of the Gliders.

WOW, sorry I started another topic on this, only trying to help Lori to help the gliders she rescued. I didn't mean to stir up anything about this, only wanting to help out.

At any rate.... Lori.... there'll be 9 pouches arriving in the next few days.... somebody told me you liked the pouches they makes... and happens to already have your address for shipping directly to you It's not a lot, but hopefully the rescue sugies will sleep soundly in them :)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by misscarl</i>
<br />Maybe it would be best if donations were held off until Lori is able to give out the information everyone is requesting such as adoption fees, total vet costs, and the price she paid for all of the Gliders.
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Since she's is not directly asking for anything I don't think we can honestly ask her how much she paid out of pocket for these guys, and it isn't our place to be nosey about that. But that's just my personal opinion. I know like she said she took a hit on this but she's doing it for the good of the babies, right now. There will be fees and I know they won't be what the crazy lady was asking for them but I also believe they won't be dirt cheap due to a: the cost of rescuing and b: the cost of vet care to get these guys healthy again.

If she chooses to ask for donations maybe she will consider sharing, but until then I'd wait to hear back specifically about the vet and focus on helping out with those costs if anyone is able and wishes to do so.

In the original post there's no mention of an ongoing investigation, in fact it was said "EVERY single option that you mentioned Scott has been exhausted. The initial approach was...." . Major Rescue Effort -update
So maybe that is where i get a little confused.

Actually, I haven't been following this too closely - but I am aware of the post saying there is an on-going USDA investigation. I am aware of Lori saying that she is cooperating with that investigation, and cannot divulge any information that would jeopardize that.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TheHomermomma</i>
<br />I know that everyone here is very eager to know this ex-breeder's name and to keep an eye out to be sure that she does not breed again. However, there is an active USDA investigation that I am cooperating with right now and I cannot give you that information. When this is wrapped up and is public I will give you the information.
I'm not hiding her...I just want to make sure that I do not impede this investigation. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think there are just so many out here wanting to help. They are trying everything ythey can think of to do so. I guess I stand with whomever said just wait until the investigation is over and until all the bills have been tallied up that way we can all go and donate directly to the vet bill. I completely understand Loris feelings to not disclose her location as I wouldn't either. Perhaps later she will pm folks to let them know so they can assist more with pouches, food and more vet bills if needed.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by valkyriemome</i>
<br />Actually, I haven't been following this too closely - but I am aware of the post saying there is an on-going USDA investigation. I am aware of Lori saying that she is cooperating with that investigation, and cannot divulge any information that would jeopardize that.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TheHomermomma</i>
<br />I know that everyone here is very eager to know this ex-breeder's name and to keep an eye out to be sure that she does not breed again. However, there is an active USDA investigation that I am cooperating with right now and I cannot give you that information. When this is wrapped up and is public I will give you the information.
I'm not hiding her...I just want to make sure that I do not impede this investigation. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Alden, in the original post there was no mention of an ongoing investigation "Major Rescue Effort" - July 23
I cant post the link here because I'm writing this using my son's Wii :(

Scott,
You are the most suspicious person that I have ever met! AFTER I got home I was called by the Eastern division of APHIS and was asked to cooperate in an investigation. We HAD exhausted everything, but now she has sold 20 gliders without a valid license. They DO NOT want the gliders. The investigation is about her sales AFTER her license was revoked. I am not the only one that she sold to but I'm the only one with that many gliders AND a contract.
So please stop trying to make me sound like a liar. I have given you all every bit of information that I am allowed to give and have told you that I will give more when I can.

I can personally confirm that the legal options were exhausted before this rescue and plan B took place. I was the one that exhausted them - until we started Plan B where Lori and I continued to explore and exhaust legal options. Further, after spending many conversations talking through our options with Ag and USDA - they even SUGGESTED and CONFIRMED the best and most effective way would be for this woman to agree to sell or surrender her gliders.

There are a few reasons for this -

1) The room that they were in was SO hot (in addition to other concerns)...the overall count of gliders went from 43 to 20 in roughly 6 weeks and she had only sold 4 gliders that I was aware of during this time. I have yet to be able to figure this out completely - I can only assume they were taking care of their own dead. We needed to move MUCH more quickly than the potential MONTHS of time it would take for a regulatory agency to move the gliders. This estimate was confirmed through the agencies over the breeder's area.

2) IF we did go in and seize the gliders - there was NO legal rescue to put them except in Animal Control. In speaking with both inspectors - we agreed on the potential health detriment to gliders housed in animal control. There was also no end in sight for how long they would be there or if they would be released back to the breeder after items were cared for. Ag codes call for temps between 40-85 degrees, being over that is an infraction yet seizure will not occur without imminent danger or proof of physical harm from the infraction during inspection. Otherwise, they are given 30 days to correct. Neither of these agencies are hopping to seize animals - regardless of what the public might think or want.

3) During the inspections, there were NO dead gliders. There were infractions - but each time, she was given a period of time to correct and this would have continued.

With regard to the ongoing investigation - there are different ways to investigate a breeder (think 1] safety/animal welfare 2] compliance in care and practice 3] regulatory/licensing cooperation etc.)....and there are multiple agency individuals involved when you have two entities over two states with a current colony of breeding gliders going to another state's licensed rescue. There are regulatory items that are still hanging in the air here - that were never absolved or charged upon. The animal/safety and welfare piece could only be pursued retroactively at this point.

If an agency WANTED to go after this breeder with proof of illegal activity - they have a legal leg to stand on. The sell of her gliders and shut down of her practice does NOT prohibit any agency from pursuing charges and repercussions from past behaviors and operations. In addition, one state can drop off and another could pick up and run relay. Don't forget also that federal regulations transcend geographical territories.

So, regardless of the gliders being out and safe - further investigation on past or different infractions CAN continue.

Does this make sense?

How in world did they know that you bought the gliders? Is it legal in Georgia to purchase gliders from someone without a valid licence?
That would have been a cool update "the USDA just called me and they want me to help in this case"!
You said if I had any questions ask? I am.

If your vet bill is up to $900 why would not set up a rescue account there?

Sorry, its not me making you look like a liar.

DoubleBogey do you have any of the gliders that were purchased from this lady?

Christ, why are you out for blood? Both these ladies are explaining what they can, limited as it is. Things changed as the situitation progressed so there haven't been updates each and every day and step of the way. Honestly, they've been so busy.

Lori NEVER ASKED FOR ANY DONATIONS.

So why set up an account?

She ALREADY explained that she isn't sure this vet will be able to take care of all of the issues and she's waiting on blood work and will figure things out after that.


I think, considering Lori never asked for any money or assistance other than in finding these little ones new homes, it's entirely understandable that no account has been set up. She cares more about taking care of them than gaining back the money she's lost. She accepted in the beginning that she'd be dropping money on this and hasn't asked for anyone's help, at ALL. So let her be and if and when she chooses to ask I am SURE she'll explain and set up an account.

(YES, money was asked for, but NOT by Lori or DB. It's others in the community that have been trying to help. I think everyone got a little over excited. Neither Lori nor DB have asked directly for ANY donations. So if you're wanting to bark up a tree, this is the wrong one.)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kozi Gliders</i>
<br />Christ, why are you out for blood? Both these ladies are explaining what they can, limited as it is. Things changed as the situitation progressed so there haven't been updates each and every day and step of the way they've been so busy.

Lori NEVER ASKED FOR ANY DONATIONS.

So why set up an account?

She ALREADY explained that she isn't sure this vet will be able to take care of all of the issues and she's waiting on blood work and will figure things out after that.


I think, considering Lori never asked for any money or assistance other than in finding these little ones new homes, it's entirely understandable that no account has been set up. She cares more about taking care of them than gaining back the money she's lost. She accepted in the beginning that she'd be dropping money on this and hasn't asked for anyone's help, at ALL. So let her be and if and when she chooses to ask I am SURE she'll explain and set up an account.
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You really need to read the original post!!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i>
You really need to read the original post!!
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This?

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35504

Scott,
Ummmm...I DID post that. It's in the other thread. I said that I can't disclose the name of the breeder yet because I'm cooperating in a USDA investigation.
According to the investigator it IS legal to buy one from someone not licensed in GA but it's not legal for them to SELL if they aren't licensed. Anyway, I'm in FL...not GA and my contract is under FL laws regardless.
Remember that I didn't initiate this thread. So my posts here are simply respond...not to update.
How I pay for vet bills and what vet I end up using is most definitely my choice. The bills going forward look to be possibly much more than what has gone out so far. It only makes sense to not have money tied up at a vet that I might not be using.