TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes   3524 Posts
I started to put this in "Need Help Now" post, but thought better to make it it's own topic.
There may be good intentions when members "bust" on someone who has asked for help and either didn't follow advise given or if they were unprepared or for whatever reason had a horrible situation that may have or may not have been rectifiable, that ended badly. The fact is that any "you knew better" or "could have, should have", is moot at this point, offers no help to OP or anyone else reading the post. People think it's best to make those comments to prove a lesson for others by example, when the truth is, the actual post already shows what happens when people aren't prepared or in other cases "take to vet", these posters learn a valuable lesson the hard way, they feel horrible and do not need someone to point it out to them, what's done is done, and no guilt trip anyone can lay on a person is helpful to anyone. I've seen this over and over, I know some of you get frustrated with people who ask for help but don't seem to follow through, I understand that frustration, but it doesn't mean you have to vent it when you don't know what their exact circumstances are, berating them doesn't prove anything to them or anyone else, the lesson is already prevalent to the OP and anyone who read the post without it.
In the case of "Need Help Now" I feel like the OP already had enough remorse about not being prepared & learned a very hard lesson, so why would anyone think they need to add to that? It didn't change the outcome.
TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes 3524 Posts quote:
Originally posted by KritterCare
quote:
Originally posted by valkyriemome
Yes .... and .... it has been said many many times.
People offer help, and when it isn't taken, and an animal suffers - or even dies - it is frustrating. I personally am not one to say "Awwww, there there" when taking advice initially offered could have saved a life.
Sorry, but "You deserved it, and your glider had to pay for your stubbornness and ignorance" is about as nice as I can be sometimes. And, I also happen to believe that there are people who NEED to hear that sort of thing. I've seen repeats of ignorance too many times!
I couldn't have said it better myself.  While I agree with TJ, sometimes it's just too much to be nice when someone ignores repeat advice. If you aren't going to take someone's advice when offered, than stop asking for it in the first place because now the poster AND the people responding are upset... 
It still doesn't change anything, lesson is already learned and what is done is done, and it doesn't help anyone but you for venting your frustrations. That's a fact, you can't dispute that! If you can't find compassion in your heart for someone, then just don't contribute anything, I'm not saying you need to be all "AWWW, there there now" Just don't share a comment if you don't feel any sympathy towards someone. It gets disheartening seeing this over and over, you just don't beat a dead horse, it's not nice. And really, if you really get a sense someone is just asking to hear what they want to hear, then ignore the post, after a few people offer the same message you would and it is responded with "stubborness, why add it again? What is accomplished? It's been advised 3 or 4 times, if that doesn't get through or make a difference, how is your contribution going to make any difference? Learn to ignore, if that's the case. You really can't say that a life of a glider was paid, sometimes maybe, but sometimes it's already too late, yes, I agree an effort should be made and to take the glider to a vet, but you can't possibly know that the glider would have lived for sure if every effort was made. And that's when you would say "Aww, there there" TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes 3524 Posts JNZ (is that ok? Your name is long, lol) When I quote "I told you so" I really mean it's said in many different forms or other words as well, and just sum up. I really do understand frustration, I've experienced it here and in many other aspects, in both reading posts with blatant stubbornness or bad judgment but also in verbal attacks. I just don't see the point, people are saying it "needs to be heard" if someone feels that's true because it's the same person having the same "bad judgment" repeatedly, then just state it in a pm, and leave the topic. If I were to ever ask for help with anything emergency, (quite frankly, I wouldn't take the time, just make the call to vet and be on the way), and I had 3 or 4 people tell me the same thing, I would follow it, as long as it made sense, usually 3 or 4 repeated advise would. Some people, maybe they don't, and it doesn't make sense to me, and apparently many others, but why, why would one feel it's necessary to "state the facts" ? It's already apparent! Just ignore it. It really shouldn't matter to you or anyone that people still want to offer comfort and condolences, maybe they don't know the whole story, maybe they are just super compassionate and don't care, someone is hurting. The facts are what they are, it can't be denied. You yourself, said that sometimes the agenda is that people want to hear what they want to hear, that may be true in some cases. But, don't you think if the person is more caught up in "being right" than concerned with the gliders life/death, that the glider didn't have a chance anyway, regardless what advise was given, it's sad but so true. I'm trying to point out that we are or should all be here to share, contribute and sometimes offer advice and help to those in need, we basically want to do what's best for our own and other's gliders, that's why we joined. So if it's not going to be helpful or make a difference, or even teach a lesson, why say it? JazzNZoeysmom Zippy Glidershorts  USA 5354 Posts TJ,...yes, that's fine...I know my user name is long...lol I do understand your point. I really do try to see things from many different perspectives. I'm going to single one thing out that you said and try to address it with my opinion...I'm not saying you need to agree with me just hoping you can kinda see the point some are trying to make. You yourself, said that sometimes the agenda is that people want to hear what they want to hear, that may be true in some cases. But, don't you think if the person is more caught up in "being right" than concerned with the gliders life/death, that the glider didn't have a chance anyway, regardless what advise was given, it's sad but so true. This part right here....I think this is the point some, incl. me are attempting to make.... If that is the agenda, is it right for it to be rewarded with coddling? And I think some older members feel the need to put comments on the open forum...not strictly for the OP but for newbys that will follow and possibly see the thread. Bottom line is it's an open forum with thousands of different personalities. Your comments could possibly ring true with some and they may re-think how they respond in the future...and you may never know you made a difference but I'm sure you have somewhere along the line. Others have seen the same things repeated so often that they have lost the desire to pamper anymore. IMO they've kinda earned that right for toughing it out on the forum so long and trying to help people even when the same negative things keep happening. I think we can all live happily within the same forum. Where some will be blunt, there are always the ones that can soothe. I know I am new here, and I am not trying to offend anyone who has been on here a while, but i feel like people are missing the point of this post. TJ, as far as I can tell, is just talking about how the follow up comments in a lot of these posts are not really helpful, but more to make a point that has already been made. When someone asks for help and is given an answer, awesome! they got the help they asked for, which is what this forum is for...... If they choose not to follow it, then their glider suffers for it. That sucks and in some cases results in the death or suffering of a glider, which none of is want to happen. It isn't fair to the glider and anyone following the post will see that, and I agree, many of us are emotional about that too. BUT having a group of people telling you "well you should have..." "we told you that..." "This is why I said..." isn't helping. The person is already aware that if they had listened, things may have ended differently. All those comments do is make the person feel attacked so that next time they wont even bother to ask. No one is asking anyone to coddle or pamper anyone. All this is about is that to follow-on comments are not helpful for anything except venting on the part of the people who gave advice. Any newbies (myself included) are going to read the post, see they blew off what you said they should do, and see that the glider died as a result. Nothing after that helps anything. In fact at a certain point it becomes a deterrent. I personally have chosen a few select people that in the event of an issue, I will PM because of how judgmental people get and because of the follow-ons. Reading how some of the people who offered help reacted after they find out the glider died has convinced me that asking questions about most anything beyond diet recommendations and how to build toys in a public setting is merely a way to become a target, and I am guessing I am not the only one, which is sad because this is supposed to be a place where glider lovers can come for help... JazzNZoeysmom Zippy Glidershorts USA 5354 Posts Peanut,...I think we do understand TJ's point. I know I do, but try to understand there are two sides to any coin. Lets say you are 100% correct that the many I told you posts get nothing accomplished. And you're probably right, because again, if we look a little deeper, it's not that the person didn't listen, the fact is, they gambled and lost. People scream GET THEM TO A VET. Well we all know that's gonna cost extra money, it's inconvenient to be hunting down a vet in the middle of the night...let's be honest...the person is praying/(gambling) that the glider makes it 'til the morning when they can get to their reg. vet. Now lets flip that over,....they gambled and have now lost..... tell me what is accomplished if every single post is telling the person how sorry we feel, oh, don't blame yourself, you did all you could....ect. ect.? IMO it's no different than if I tell my child, "Don't throw rocks at windows or you'll break them." REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT..... Well, s/he throws a rock at my neighbors window and low & behold, it breaks.... Do I put my arm around him/her and say, it's ok I know you didn't do it on purpose...I'm so sorry you threw that rock and it broke that window...? Sorry, that wouldn't be my reaction. Actually I think most people are kinder to the forum member than they would be their own child in that same scenerio. I don't know, I guess I walk the middle road....I may not rip someone a new one after they've lost a pet when it was of their own doing(or lack of action) but I'm most certainly not gonna tell them they did nothing wrong. Hence, I pretty much don't respond to a post like that. Some people feel the need to. I'm sure we'll never get everyone to agree on everything, but that's life for us. And again, NO ONE IS ASKING YOU TO CODDLE OR PAMPER ANYONE. To use your example if you told your kid not to throw rocks because he would break a window, and he throws a rock and breaks a window, no one (repeated again to make a point that NO ONE is expecting anyone to console the person in any way or tell them they did their best because that is not what this is about at all) expects you to say its ok. BUT it is not helping ANYTHING for you and 30 of your friends to all tell him "See! we told you you shouldnt throw rocks or you would break a window...So and so said it and you didnt listen...." "yeah. like she said, you shouldnt have thrown the rock..." "yeah dont take this personally, but she did warn you that if you threw the rock you would break a window" "yeah. I agree, all you would have had to do is not throw the rock like so and so said"......none of that helps anyone. Harpy Joey USA 33 Posts I think the real issue is that users on this forum tend to begin with the berating and criticism immediately after other users have either asked an important question or told about something bad happening. I don't think that this is a good way to go about it. Yes, some glider owners should and could be more prepared. It does not change the fact that they are still human, and still apt to make mistakes. And when someone is upset, frustrated, or stressed about a situation, it's not the time to tell them all the things they SHOULD have done. They already know what they should have done, what they need is advice on what they CAN do, and friendly, helpful people rather than harsh and critical people. That being said, I'm not trying to say that berating or criticism is never called for. It is. But maybe rather than commenting on a user's thread who is obviously stressed or frustrated because of something that happened to one of their pets, perhaps trying to help resolve the situation and then, after the fact, calmly sending the user a FRIENDLY PM would be a more effective way to get the point across. I know I'm new here, but this is just what I've noticed and what I know that I would respond well to. I was not trying to come across as rude or opinionated at all. ;) - Harpy fox0r Face Hugger  USA 496 Posts A good few of us have been around several years. You can only see the same kind of thing so many times before it starts to drive you up the wall. AKA people not doing their research, or not listening to the advise given. Sugar gliders are NOT a pet that someone should go into blindly, and often times that's the case. Impulse buys, etc, and then the gliders suffer for it. Like people still using wodent wheels, for example. There's probably a topic on every damn forum about the dangers of them. It's just stuff that makes you want to bash your head into the wall. Wait until you've been around a while, you'll probably be in the same boat. I think we all get there eventually. Something to consider is that most people first learn about sugar gliders from Pocket Pets because they see them at the mall/fair. They like them, they get them, and then something happens and they don't know what to do. Pocket Pets, in their sales pitch, claim that suggies never have to go to a vet. They even have a comparison cost chart between suggies, dogs and cats, listing vet bills at 0 for suggies. So, if you have a person who found this forum come to ask a question, and all the information they have is from Pocket Pets, can you really get mad at them? There is so much conflicting information on sugar gliders out there, and they are so new as pets in the US, that it is easy for people to get confused. Most forum members here have owned suggies for years and have a lot of experience, but to a newbie it's not as easy as that. There is no reason to berrate anyone. Most people will learn from the hard experience and the feeling they get from that is bad enough. Yes, it is maddeningly sad for the suggies, incredibly frustrating for long-time owners, and a learning experience for everyone. Please consider this and maybe we can all focus more on educating as many people as possible. By the way, my vet also told me that they tried contacting the Pocket Pets people on numerous occassions because their suggies have so many problems but the Pocket Pets people don't care. So, who should you really be angry with? TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes 3524 Posts quote:
Originally posted by fox0r
A good few of us have been around several years. You can only see the same kind of thing so many times before it starts to drive you up the wall. AKA people not doing their research, or not listening to the advise given.
Sugar gliders are NOT a pet that someone should go into blindly, and often times that's the case. Impulse buys, etc, and then the gliders suffer for it.
Like people still using wodent wheels, for example. There's probably a topic on every damn forum about the dangers of them.
It's just stuff that makes you want to bash your head into the wall. Wait until you've been around a while, you'll probably be in the same boat. I think we all get there eventually.
fox, the frustration is understandable, I'm just say that venting doesn't accomplish anything for anyone else, just the ones who are venting. When something urgent is posted, members are giving good, clear & true advise and you see the person is not "getting" the advise by their replies & actions, why can't members at that point just ignore the post, there is nothing more that can be done, put it behind you and be sorry for the glider. You did your part by trying to help but if the response isn't cooperative, give up, it's over. As far as wodent wheels are concerned, some places still say they're safe if they have an axil cover, many glider supply sites sell them as "glider safe" not just PP. Even on this site there is conflicting information about them. (I had one, it's not disabled flat on the floor of cage as a play box, the girls love it, it's easy to clean, lol see they still have a purpose for those who have them). Unfortunately, there is a lot of conflicting information, it's hard to know who to believe in the beginning. After being around here and reading several different stories, new members start to pick up on things, and it's truly disheartening to see other members being barated for their poor judgment. Many times the posts start out or will shortly after beginning have the OP saying they know they made a mistake, it's said in different ways, but most of the time it's realized already by them that they were wrong. At that point remorse is already there for them, and for anyone else reading the point as been already made, it's time to walk away, so to speak, and move on. If there are some members that still feel compassion, or sorrow even just for the lost glider, then let them express that, it's part of healing. I'm not trying to belittle a gliders life, it's truly tragic when one is lost due to negligence by any form. Sadly, though it happens, it will continue to happen, and all members can due & should do is reach out to help those asking for it, hopefully it will help save the life. Once it's apparent an effort isn't going to be made, the tragic ending is inevitable. A lot of times the OP tries to make an effort but too late, they were just unprepared for an emergency, they realize that, have to live with it, and they need to move on. Any barating at that point also doesn't change it, anyone else reading the post will see what happens when you are unprepared, and hopefully will learn the lesson, some still will think it won't happen to them, until it does. My point, some members understand, some still won't, is we are here as a community to share experiences, good and bad, and to reach out to help those who ask, why can't we as members just do that, and leave behind what we can't fix? JazzNZoeysmom Zippy Glidershorts USA 5354 Posts Ok, I guess I'm just confused. I've obviously been reading this thread...the same thing being said over and over....I'm assuming because certain people "think" we aren't getting the "point." I assure you, I GET THE POINT. And the posts I'm referring to are the blatantly ignored advice ones. I've given plenty of sympathy to plenty of people who have lost gliders. But what I was referring to up above is the ignored advice posts or the ones where you can track back and know this person, for example, had since JANUARY to prepare for a new joey, but didn't get a rejection kit, when I'm sorry... there have been dozens of threads since then about rejected joeys and what to do about it if it happens. So this whole thread is repremanding people for saying, I'm sorry for your loss, but if you had listened, this could have possibly been avoided! Because in theory, it does NOTHING but make the poster feel better and the OP feel bad.... Ok, I can see that to a point, but why is it people expect to be able to get on and ask for help?....People jump thru hoops attempting to do just that. Providing numbers, looking up E-Vets near the persons location, ect. ect.... all that effort is pretty much ignored, a glider dies. The OP gets to come on and have the community wrap their arms around them and tell them how sorry they are, don't feel bad, you did all you could...ect. ect. But the people who were jumping thru hoops trying to help are supposed to just shut up and skip the post...ignore it as to not make the person feel worse. So for all the help they tried to give, the glider died, THEY FEEL BAD ALSO, but where's their hug? Where's their, I'm so sorry you tried to help and this person refused to listen? They get none. And apparently they can't even soothe themselves slightly by saying, Well you should have listened and this poor animal may have made it....because I'm sorry....at this point I think many no longer feel bad for the human, they feel bad that the glider died. They are in our care...they can't go out and seek a vet on their own when they feel bad or are hurt...THAT'S OUR JOB! And when we don't do it, the glider pays the price! It's hard to sympathize with someone after they refuse to do what's needed! And I'm sorry, I DO think sometimes a, "If you had listened the outcome may have been different," is warranted...yeah, it may make them feel bad for a few minutes but maybe if it's said it will FINALLY sink in that they shouldn't second guess the advice that was given...that THEY came begging for then chose to ignore. fox0r Face Hugger USA 496 Posts Well said Jazz! And onto PP -- If ANYONE ever tells you that an ANIMAL DOESN'T NEED A VET that should send up HUGE RED FLAGS! And any of us can very well be angry at consumers for not doing their research before bringing an exotic pet home. It's those people that are keeping PPP in business. And yes, TJ, there is a lot of conflicting information. That's why people need to research BEFORE they get their gliders. If people smarted up and used some common sense, we'd have a LOT less glider deaths from easily avoidable situations.
Some photos from our members Hydirion Glider  163 Posts I'm down with being nicer at times. Many people are new, and no matter how great you are at research, you're not gonna get everything. It is bad to get on to someone when they're sad because their little one didn't make it. But it is worse, and I've seen it, that some of us are real jerks from the start. My parents taught me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. People don't need yelled at, if you hate that they don't take your advice, and are upset, GROW UP. We're mostly adults. If you had a human child get sick, and someone gave you advice, then yelled t you when it died, you wouldn't like it. I don't care how many years you've been doing this, you are not perfect, if you are, post a video of you walking on water. Yes. People are idiots. You, them, us. We do stupid things, and hurt people. More importantly, there are people who have just come in very gruff and hard on the people who are seeking their help. I'm not one to take advice that comes across as rude. No one likes to be told they're wrong. Think of your human kids. You have to learn to treat people like people. A simple way of putting it, don't say TAKE IT TO VET NOW. ME CAVE MAN. ME NO USE SENTENCE. Say, a glider vomiting is a sign of a severe illness, I would take him to the vet. THEN if they read it, you aren't offending them, and they might take the advice (if they aren't smart enough to have done so already). But after you have politely given your opinion, it's ultimately on them. I told you so's aren't necessary. That is being childish. You'd spank your kids for some of the things said on here, and if you look back, you know it. We're here because we love our pets, they're our family too, and we want them to be happy and healthy. Also, and my point is not followed here, I know, but be brief. Most people don't read. I know, because we have signs at work that say, "We apologize for the inconvenience, but due to technical issues, X will not be happening today. Sincerely, Management." PEOPLE GET MAD. WHY? They're to lazy, or dumb or just don't care to read a novel about anything. I changed the Sign. "X is cancelled today. Management" NO ONE COMPLAINS. It relates to what they want to know at word one, and provides no reason, because most people don't care. Give them what they want to know, if they want more they'll ask. So, what I'm saying is, have a care when giving the advice, and make it brief so they can find what they need without embellishment. If they fail, they are hurt, post in your own thread about how people should listen, but don't berate them on their grief thread. renee14150 Fuzzy Wuzzy 1850 Posts I've been following this thread and have kept quiet until now. I believe Jazz put it very well. There have been nights that I've gone to bed very distraught, feeling helpless because someone doesn't heed the advice. I've woken up in the middle of the night just to check the thread and see if any progress was made. While there are indeed times where you see the op's regret, there are also times where we see none. On occassion, the op has moved on and already gotten a new glider within days of the other one dying. They couldn't afford the vet, but they got a new glider? So it is a slap in the face that I lost sleep when their glider was sick and dying and it doesn't bother them at all. And you can bet your butt that when my 25 yr old daughter has something go terribly wrong after I warned her time and time again of the consequences...I have zero sympathy and tell her so. It doesn't mean I don't love her - but I feel she must learn from the experience so it doesn't repeat itself. In the end I believe some berating is warranted and some is not. But it has it's place on this forum. You (you meaning all who offer help) want sympathy for the loss of the gliders that died because they didn't listen, and here you go. I am sorry you have to know a glider that might have lived if they had listened didn't make it. it is hard getting involved and then knowing it didn't end well. I'm sorry for your suffering (I sincerely am, I have been on that side of the fence many times) But consider this. The venting may help you feel better about the glider not making it, but what about the ones where the owner may have listened but didn't post because of the judgmental venting, and the glider died anyway. Or the people who did post, felt attacked, and didn't come back the next time they had an issue. JazzNZoeysmom Zippy Glidershorts USA 5354 Posts [quote] Originally posted by Hydirion A simple way of putting it, don't say TAKE IT TO VET NOW. ME CAVE MAN. ME NO USE SENTENCE. Say, a glider vomiting is a sign of a severe illness, I would take him to the vet. THEN if they read it, you aren't offending them, and they might take the advice (if they aren't smart enough to have done so already). But after you have politely given your opinion, it's ultimately on them. I told you so's aren't necessary. That is being childish. You'd spank your kids for some of the things said on here, and if you look back, you know it. Also, and my point is not followed here, I know, but be brief. Most people don't read. I know, because we have signs at work that say,
"We apologize for the inconvenience, but due to technical issues, X will not be happening today. Sincerely, Management."
PEOPLE GET MAD. WHY? They're to lazy, or dumb or just don't care to read a novel about anything.
I changed the Sign. "X is cancelled today. Management"
NO ONE COMPLAINS. It relates to what they want to know at word one, and provides no reason, because most people don't care. Give them what they want to know, if they want more they'll ask. [quote] Just to point out...you are contradicting yourself in your post. Up top you say DON'T say TAKE THEM TO THE VET NOW. Then below you say that's exactly what we should be saying. DoubleBogey Fuzzy Wuzzy USA 1244 Posts A person has to really frustrate me and show a lack of humanity to their glider for me to respond to a death post with negativity. I have completely avoided those posts in the past. However, I WILL respond with constructive feedback for the health and safety of the other gliders in their home. People have gotten their feelings hurt for my "proactivity". I won't lie - I worried on my post about Rocky that someone would say to me "Hey, you do realize that he was a rejected joey and he was 50% more likely to SM. You totally caused him this pain and suffering by not letting nature take it's course." I was prepared to come back guns-a-blazing! I believe in life and do all I can to preserve it and hope for the best. With that said, you should all know, that while no one responded with that on my thread - this was verbalized to me three times. It hurt. This feedback was to give me "peace" but it still sucked eggs. At the same time, boy did the wheels in my head turn. Sometimes the heart and the head don't agree. I appreciated the constructive knowledge. The delivery of that message could have been really bad though. And, it could have done the opposite of giving me "peace". One of those people came super close. I am not positioning on either side of this camp because I think between both points - there is a LOT of gray and subjectivity to the owner, the glider, the situation, and the history. There ARE times when I want to rip the persons head off because they DID cause their glider unnecessary suffering and it's hard not to at least submit a post with information and hope they learn from it. There are other times when I see an error in the judgement in conjunction with the remorse and I just sent digital hugs. We are human and we err even worse than our nature predicts. I guess the point is...it could go either way. Variables...lots of variables. fazioli Face Hugger 906 Posts Here's an instance...a person comes on one night with a topic about their glider at the bottom of the cage, not moving, and asking "what could this be?". Everyone posted get them to a vet, was even offered a couple of options, but refused to do so. Then a new post the following morning regarding the glider dying. Now, if everyone hadn't seen the original post where this person was offered advice, help, etc. but didn't heed it, then she follows up on the glider dying post saying "I did everything I could to save this glider", then the ones that had seen the previous post knows that this person did not do everything they could to save the glider. This person was asking for sympathy for the loss of a glider. I steered clear of offering any sympathy up b/c I knew she did not do everything she could, nor did she want to. When this person was called out on this, the topic heated up. The ones that did not know the whole story were jumping down people's throats for being harsh to this person that lost the glider, until I posted a link to the original topic, then I think it changed a few peoples' minds about the whole situation. My point is this....if someone really did try their best to save the glider, and the glider dies, then of course sympathy is offered. But, if they come asking for advice, have been given advice, totally ignores the advice, then the glider dies, then no sympathy but an "I told you so". Also, it is correct that sometimes we post things on these topics so if a newby comes along reading the post, that they don't get the wrong idea regarding things. Believe it or not, a majority of these posts are used as research tools. Hopefully all of this makes sense...  valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes USA 3479 Posts I get the point. I've been on this and other forums for years. I said in a previous thread - Sometimes the truth is "mean." The thread in question - The person posted in JANUARY that she was going to breed. She was advised in JANUARY to prepare. Then, when the joeys came OOP in MAY, she wasn't prepared, and, as a result, the joey died. Yup - me getting angry and telling the person off probably doesn't accomplish anything. But, yes - I would still like to kick them. It didn't need to happen, and about all the sympathy I can spare is the back of my hand. Works both ways - if you don't like the "venting" posts - don't read them! I spend a lot of time on this forum trying to reach out and help. I'm emotionally invested in people I've never met and their gliders. When that ends the way this situation did, I have a right to vent. Sorry it makes you uncomfortable. Not going to be stopping, however. TJones09 Goofy Gorillatoes 3524 Posts quote:
Originally posted by valkyriemome
I get the point.
I've been on this and other forums for years. I said in a previous thread - Sometimes the truth is "mean."
The thread in question - The person posted in JANUARY that she was going to breed. She was advised in JANUARY to prepare. Then, when the joeys came OOP in MAY, she wasn't prepared, and, as a result, the joey died.
Yup - me getting angry and telling the person off probably doesn't accomplish anything. But, yes - I would still like to kick them. It didn't need to happen, and about all the sympathy I can spare is the back of my hand.
Works both ways - if you don't like the "venting" posts - don't read them! I spend a lot of time on this forum trying to reach out and help. I'm emotionally invested in people I've never met and their gliders. When that ends the way this situation did, I have a right to vent. Sorry it makes you uncomfortable. Not going to be stopping, however.
To valkyriemome "Sometimes the truth is "mean"." While true, it doesn't make it necessary to tell it, when it won't accomplish anything, and that's the "truth". As for venting posts, uhm, they weren't started as a venting post, but grew into one After seeing so much of it, over and over, I do stop reading those posts, and maybe so do some newbies that will at that point loose the lesson that would have been valuable, and all they take with them instead is "wow". It grows into a sensational frenzy at OP 's expense and doesn't HELP ANYONE. If one person feels like some form of "we told you so" then let it stay at 1, it doesn't need to be repeated multiple times by multiple members. So yes, I do stop reading the posts after they get to that point, and maybe many other's will also, that's why I started this topic, in hopes some members will take the simple FACT into consideration that's it's harder to learn a lesson buried in all the chaos; and so people who want to research will maybe have the chance to do so without seeing such ugliness. It really takes away from the lesson more than contributes. It would be sad if such valuable lessons are ignored because people don't want to read them when they turn chaotic or are lost to the berating frenzy. It's ok to not offer sympathy if it's not warranted, If even you want to link a previous post relating the "whole story" that members may not have seen to, so to say "connect the lesson" I think that's a great idea, and as long as discussion ends there it would demonstrate the lesson very well that a new member or even seasoned members will appreciate because it's helpful. To all of those who make every effort, from small to large to offer assistance to the OP's in these situations: It's noticed! Seriously, I express gratitude & respect to you all, I'm truly, glad there are people that will step up. If you haven't been able to help the poster due to their lack of effort to follow your advise, you have certainly helped me and I'm sure many others by giving good, sound knowledge, for use, if not now, then in the future. Please know it was not in total vain, some members are learning from you, even if the intended recipient didn't. It may still save another's glider's life! As long as the lesson is still obvious, that is. I can clearly see everyone has gotten the point of this post, some agree with this point, some don't agree, and yet some say they see both sides. In any regards, I have taken effort to point out the facts in a kind, caring way, and without harsh words. I never berated anyone for berating, just merely tried to explain the harm it causes to all in the long run. I can only say now that I am sorry that some members, like you valkyriemome, still feel it's more important to vent their frustration than to let a valuable lesson be learned by many. That may have sounded a little mean, but it's the TRUTH valkyriemome (I apologize for any misspelling or poor grammar, English is not my forte). Hydirion Glider 163 Posts No, I said not to be a caveman about it. Yes, tell them to go to the vet. I'm jumpy and want to take mine to the vet for being asleep at noon. It's how I am. It's just too easy to be curt when offering good advice. I want sound advice with sensitivity, if I wanted cold honesty I'd talk to the mirror. Take it from someone who is honest. ALWAYS. It hurts people if you're not tactful about it. Please, just use some tact. Think how you would feel should the roles be reversed. You could learn something from newbies and children. They are still sweet when, reading post after post from some of you are not polite to begin with. You're like an elite club member and snobby. I don't care if you've successfully raised sugar gliders for 78 years. No reason to be rude, ever. You don't like people not taking your advice? DON'T GIVE IT. And believe me, I will let you know you're being rude. I will of course still appreciate advice, my kids have my heart, and that's not something that many can claim. But if Smelly brown stuff collides with a ceiling mounted object, please be nice about it. I'm aware of the problem. And I probably tried.
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Advice & Berating; one helps, the other does not it's just venting
