I am wondering something.

It was my thought that an unwritten rule in the community was not to copy someone elses design on certain items for your own profit.

Like we all know that the "sugar combs" design belongs to VictoriaRose1982 (aka Rachel) and was an original design from her. It's my understanding that she doesn't mind if you make them for yourself or gift exchanges, just not to sell. However, the other day i was linked an ad from Libby and Louise for "The Great Escape tm" and I can't tell the difference between it and the sugar comb.


I had the idea for a bonding pouch that I haven't seen before. I talked to others and found out that about 3 years ago something along the same idea-but completely different design was made-she has since stopped making them-and now I don't know it I should ask her if it's ok to make mine (to sell).

I looked into the patent pending laws (mainly price) the "design" patent pending is $899 plus. So I can understand people not wanting to do that.

It's also "understood" that basic cage sets items can't be "dibbed"-basic pouches, triangles, fringe vines, braided vines, shelves...that anyone can make and sell those.

Can someone please explain to me where the lines are drawn?

I deal with trademarks and patents every day. I have a patent attorney, although I am not a patent attorney myself.

If the Glider product is not patented you can manufacture it and make a profit from it - legally.

I believe the Glider community has a "gentlemen's agreement" in place which expresses someone will not manufacture and profit from a design that was first marketed by someone else.

Legally, you can do it; your reputation in the Glider community might be tarnished though.

As a side note regarding The Great Escape , it is a TM instead of an R which means the trademark has not been registered. I scoured the Trademark records and do not see "The Great Escape" as a mark pertaining to animals or animal goods. One would not get in trouble (legally) for using "The Great Escape" as the name of one of their own products. I would not however make the same toy and call it by that name.

I also recommend that Libby & Louise get the name trademarked if this is a profitable toy for them; it only costs around $300.

ETA: Sorry if this sounds like a foreign language. It's my day to day job (and now you know how I can sit in front of a computer all day with Glider's in my shirt and in a bonding pouch...lol).

I have a ton of the sugar combs, and I had someone one give the a Great Escape as a gift. The basic difference is that the Great Escape is bigger than the regular size, and they use different hardware. And of course the higher price. I ended up exchanging the one I got as a gift because I didn't like the color. There are similar items sold for rats too. (Triple hammock)

The problem with having a exclusive design, even if you do patent it, is all someone needs to do is make a minor change and call it something different, and it is considered a different item. Why do you think you see so many knockoffs, and generic items that are almost the same as a name brand item.

I think it would be nice to just write a short note, and let the person know what you're doing as a courtesy.

If you're thinking about protecting your own design, you really can't. As you've found out the patent process is expensive, and can be slow. And the cost of taking someone to court would be high. And not everyone that would sell on the internet would care about the ethics of copying your design.

When I was young, and I wanted to copy a crochet design I saw at a craft show I would actually buy one of the item from the person, so that they actually did get some business from me. I wasn't selling the items either.

Just realize from the start if you post an original design, it will be copied. Many people that sell on ebay and etsy are not part of the community, and even many who are would not have a problem copying your design, and selling it.

I'm actually in the same boat today after seeing Rachels dilema on FB this morning.

I have a cute little thing I make that I call a Sugar Bowl and as Indigo mentioned, it's more of a "gentlemens agreement" so I personally just check all of the glider sites I know and I ask.... been getting responses all day from vendors letting me know while mine may be similar, it is not the same as theirs so I'm not stepping on anyones' toes.

I think in your instance it might be a nice jesture to get "permission" from the original maker, but if she isn't even producing them anymore I don't see the harm. If you're really concerned--- (I know how you feel, been on edge all day waiting for someone to tell me my well thought out but simple idea is theirs and I can't sell it!) maybe make enough of a modification that it is YOURS.

The "Sugar Comb" is one of the only items where the creator, Rachel, allows others to make it to sell. Several people have asked her, not sure if all the vendors making them have though, and she has graciously said yes. At this point, with the numerous vendors of sugar combs/tiered hammocks out there, its become more like a basic cage set piece(pouch, hammock, etc.) - she does have her Suggie Trees with fringe/beads that are definitely unique to her though!

If a vendor has stopped making an item for awhile and doesn't plan on continuing it, its worth a shot to ask if you can make it. Never hurts to ask and if its been that long, they shouldn't have an issue with it.

In general, it is accepted that people may make your unique pieces for themselves for personal use. However, they should not make them to sell or even give away without asking permission. There is no legal recourse, but copycats are generally frowned upon and avoided within the community.

Just got another message letting me know that my design was not like hers but even if it was she would have no issue with me making and selling them. "There's plenty of room for everyone" she stated. I think that was really nice and I think previous vendors really just appreciate the fact that you don't want to step on their toes. They don't mind sharing as long as they don't feel like you're trying to railroad them....at least that's what I'm getting today. Makes me feel so much better.

I think if you contact this person before people go running to her and saying, "so & so is copying you" she will respect you for it and won't have an issue.

The issue is NOT one of trademark or copyright. We are a small community. There are small vendors - and they, of course, don't have the money for all the legal garbage involved.

It is about respect for one another, and living together within a community.

There are people that don't give a darn. I believe Kazko is one of those. Each time the issue of "copying" comes up - he usually has some comments about "make whatever you want."

It is your right to make whatever you please. However, the glider community is a relatively small group of people, and we try to operate with conscientious respect of one another whenever possible.

I've also have seen two different people develop a design completely independent of one another. Who is to say who has a claim on it in that case?

You just have to work with one another within the community. If someone no longer is part of the community and has left the community, or doesn't make an item any longer, and hasn't for quite a while - in my opinion, it is open! If it is something clearly unique, that - were money not an option - *could* be trademarked or patented - then you should try to contact them. If it is a matter of something sewn - like another pouch or something similar, I think you should just make 'em!

Thank you everyone!

I wanted to clarify though that while my idea is the same the design is defiantly NOT the same. I do not want to reveal very much right now but it's like...

Both of these are swings:




But, they are designed VERY differently...same function, same idea, different design.

Next I wanted to say that I have already tried to contact and haven't heard anything back, but from what I have found it's because she is out and about with her family for the summer which is AWESOME!

Also I wasn't trying to get a patent for my design, I just wanted to say that I understand why people don't because of the price ;)

I am a little confused about the TM to R though...

Danielle I will see her at the SGGA. If you want me to show her what ya got and see what she says, I can do that, I promise to show only her and noone else.

Well I think the tough thing is.... a pouch is a pouch is a pouch....yes, we all have different little ways of changing them up but come on, a pouch is a pouch. IMO if you make a minor change to make it yours there shouldn't be an issue. I think all of us have sat and tried to think of new ways to re-invent the pouch whether just to have something different or to suit our own suggies' needs...colony size, ect. and I'll bet we all have come up with many of the same ideas.

I agree, Jazz. There are some items that are unique in the glider community. But - a pouch is a pouch!

Thank you Cora. I will try to have 1 done before wed; I don't want you to take it unless it's perfect :P

Generally speaking, the design and special technology/features are what are patented.

For example there is a pouch that you can hold onto as a belt buckle of sorts. That would be unique and be theirs.

A pouch with a pattern or design that was custom made for that pouch is also unique.

Actually I can see the struggle I actually have a new design for a....pouch? Im not exactly sure if I'm going to call it that with how different mine is. Im doing some research to make sure that I'm not coming up with the same idea as someone else that already has a Patten. But I was inspired by a bonding pouch made in China.its small and cute but is also good for male suggy parents as it can clip to their belt loops. I won't jeopardize my idea completely but I was looking for ways to make pouches capable for all day use (sence suggies sleep all day anyways) I have a disign pattern for a demo and currently putting it together. I have a pet store here in Fl that wants to sell my particular disign they want more variety for their pocket pets (ferrets, mice, rats and so on.) I haven't pitched my idea to sell cage sets yet but all in good time. But the pouch I want to patent as I think the idea is unique and will eventually be of great benefit to all puts cute and tiny. Here is the pouch I got my inspiration from
I love how cute it is and my babies love it I even have it hanging in their cage cause you can remove the strap! And my babies are usually crawling in once I'm ready for work so all I have to do is zip it up. Mine will be quite a bit different though but I'm going to make it a nice disign with some really good things add to it but after see that and seeing how my gliders loved it I now want to work on mine.

This is a very old thread.

I do not think any of us that make and sell glider items in the forum community have taken the route of actually filing for a patent for our designs.

It is a courtesy and an unwritten rule that we do not copy and make an item for sale that is already made by another member of the community.

The patent process is a very lengthy one and it can be VERY VERY expensive depending on the number of other similar items that are already made.

It would take a very long time and hundreds of sales of your item before you recoup the cost of the patent if you were to go that route.

I understand but I know there is ways to work around that. I'm mainly wanting to patent it as a way to leave something behind for my kids (my human ones) and they don't struggle like I have in life. As for my idea I took in to account of how I hear some owners talk about the small concerned of dehydration. I know that fear all too well wich is why I'm working so hard on it.if I can get used to this damn sewing machine I just got Ill share my work here and I'll be selling them on Etsy and eBay and the local pet store in fort Walton Beach FL.