I feed my girls BML, I recently got 4 male gliders and they are on HPW, after much deliberation I'm thinking about switching them to BML as well since I prefer the consistency of it and the ease.

I've already switched my rep-cal to NOW brand calcium powder in equal parts but am also going to switch the Herpivite to Vionate.

I'm also wondering if it's okay to add bee pollen?

Also adding or substituting ground flax seeds to the mixture, maybe doing half and half with the flax and wheat germ.

Another question is: am I able to sub papaya juice in place of the apple juice? Does it REALLY matter what juice it is?

I know it's usually a nono to substitute or modify staple diets but I honestly think it could be great for my babies.

Have any of you modified your staple diet?

the thing with BML is that it is VERY sensitive and if you add anything... it wont be nutritionally helping them... The ratios will be thrown off..

^Agree!

There are plenty of people who do modify their staple whether by not knowing any better or by well researched design. BML is not one of the diets that leaves room for substitution...as mentioned above.

I third all of it. I do not use BML, but I've been to conferences where Bourbon discusses her diets and methods, and she does strongly suggest not to substitute anything on her diet, since it would throw off the nutritional ratios. As Blue says, some people modifies it, but Bourbon does not endorse such modifications. Not mentioning the effect it could have on your gliders.

quote:

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I've already switched my rep-cal to NOW brand calcium powder in equal parts but am also going to switch the Herpivite to Vionate.

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DO NOT substitute Now Brand Calcium in an amount equal to the RepCal Calcium

BML already contains the HIGHEST AMOUNT of calcium found in any of the widely used glider diets. Because of this large dosage of calcium the diet REQUIRES the use of high phosphorus mixed vegetables to counter-balance the excessive calcium dosage.

NOW Brand Calcium Carbonate contains 1200 mg calcium per teaspoon.

RepCal Calcium contains only 1050 mg calcium per teaspoon.

Using equal amounts is providing an extremely EXCESSIVE dose of calcium

Substitution of Vionate for the Rep Cal Herpivite also is not recommended. The two products do NOT contain equal amounts of each of the vitamins - you could be offering too much of some or too little of others by making this change to BML.

Using Papaya Juice in place of the apple juice adds ADDITIONAL CALCIUM and a large amount of Vitamin A which is already provided in the REPCal Herpivite

Choose another feeding plan that has been proven by successfully maintaining healthy gliders over several years rather than adding or changing ingredients in BML.

Once you change an ingredient - you are no longer feeding BML. Before creating a whole new staple mixture you need to look at the nutrients provided by EACH INGREDIENT and see how the change alters the BALANCE of nutrients in the overall mixture.

Before writing my GliderKids Recipes I spent over 6 months analyzing the nutritional content of all of the then widely used glider staples for comparison and created a spread sheet to evaluate each ingredient chosen for my recipes so I could analyze the results of each change in ingredients or their amounts. It is not a simple process of just altering an ingredient. Each change alters the balance of all the nutrients in the combination.

In addition, I had a great deal of experience analyzing the nutritional content of foods and balancing diets for specific nutritional needs of infants and children I worked with as a nurse and feeding consultant for special needs children. I was able to apply this knowledge to analyzing glider diets so I was not starting out just guessing at how to alter a diet.

Thanks guys

I was looking at your GliderKid's lead beater Candy! Thanks for letting me know it's not that easy to modify without throwing off a balance!

The reasoning behind me wanting to change the herpivite to vionate is because it's a multivitamin meant for warm blooded mammals. I'll change my Calcium measurement to make sure they aren't getting too much and I'll do research on how much of which things are in the multivitamin.
I was never all that comfortable with feeding them reptile vitamins

I am not a big fan of the RepCal vitamins either - I prefer to use a recipe that includes Wombaroo High Protein Supplement because it is made (in Australia) specifically for Sugar Gliders and other related species.

Wombaroo High Protein Supplement also does NOT contain the Menadione (synthetic Vitamin K) which many folks are concerned about because it is banned for human consumption. It is however the ONLY vitamin K supplement permitted for use in any pet food or vitamin product manufactured in the US. It is probably found in both Herpivite and Vionate (I do not have the labels to check)

When you are calculating the nutrients in the staple, you also have to consider what fruits and vegetables you plan to use along with it for the full feeding.

Here is a link to my printable list that shows nutrients in many fruits and vegetables in 1 TBS glider portions that might help you also.

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com/FruitVegLIST2011.pdf

Thanks so much for the information Candy

Just a couple of questions.

Is there a list of essential vitamins and minerals glider need to thrive in daily valued amounts anywhere? Anything on caloric intake, necessary protein, calcium, phosphorus, fiber, etc per day?
I know gliders are not studied as deeply as other companion animals

Are there any human grade multivitamins that can be recommended to avoid menadione, I thought vionate didn't have it but knew herpivite did.

I wish I could get their diet down to a science

Unfortunately there is not list of recommended vitamin and mineral amounts gliders need daily.

They get most of their vitamins from eating a WIDE variety of fruits and vegetables. Each fruit or vegetable is rich in some vitamins and minerals and poor in others. By feeding a wide variety it covers all the vitamins and minerals nicely. It is unlikely that too much of a vitamin or mineral can be consumed from foods alone.

I studied all of the then widely used glider diets to establish a range for protein, fat, sugar, fiber, iron, calcium and phosphorus - the formulated my staple recipes to be mid range between the highest and lowest values.

It would be impossible to calculate a dosage of a human grade multi-vitamin for an animal as small as a glider.