Hi, I'm new to the forums and new to sugar gliders as I only had mine for a few months but let me start from the beginning. My first glider was by herself when I got her from a friend and my friend got her from her friend, I know poor glider being passed around but anyway my gliders name is trixe and my friend didn't know what kind of food she was on, it was refridgerated and smelled like play doh! So after a couple of weeks to let Trixie get use to her new and final home I tried boiling some chicken and giving her chicken with vegies and fruits and she loveddd the chicken! Until the calcium and vitamins arrived in the mail for the BML diet and I put her on that, then a month later I got another glider from a different friend, once again he was on a poor diet! These glider breeders she got him from told her to only feed it tutti fuitti kible from glidersrus.com and don't feed it fruit because it's to accidic. -__- I introduced the poor thing to veggies and fruits and meal worms (he never had insects either) he went crazy over them!he was in heaven! Anyway now they're both eating the BML but doesn't seem to care for the limited vegies and fruits : / plus i dont like the fact that theres concern about the vitamin k? In the bml diet so I'm wanting to switch the diets to something else like the hpw but everything I find requires wombarro and bee pollen stuff I can't get from a store in the United states. Is the hpw instant just add water safe and healthy for them? Or what about my original temporary diet I had Trixie on before I got my bml ingriedents. Is it ok to feed them fresh boiled chicken and or eggs,with a side of fruits and veggies every night as if they were human beings? Like no freezing and mixing? If neither the hpw instant or the fresh food is a good idea then how do I get the bee pollen and wombaroo stuff? I also can't find gerber juice with yogurt for the bml so unless the new diet allows the subsituiton of plain yogurt and juice like bml I can't use it. Sorry if any of this is confusing my point is, is fresh cooked protiens with fruit and veggies (as long as I use the cal.:phosphrus ratios 2:1 on the fruits and vegs.) ok or does it have to be a mixutre you freeze because gliders naturally eat nectar and which mixture is best and easier to obtain ingredients.

First, welcome to glider parent hood and congratulations on making life much better for two gliders.

Diet is always a complicated question. I'll try to answer each question.

Instant HPW from Exotic Nutrition is a relatively new product having been on the market for only a year or two so there are no long observations on how well gliders thrive being fed this diet long term. If it is made in the US - it will contain the same synthetic vitamin K you are concerned about with BML because it is the ONLY vitamin K source permitted in pet foods manufactured in the US.

I am also not a fan of the pasteurized RAW egg product used in the add water only glider diets or the powdered honey which contains anticaking agents to prevent it from absorbing moisture and getting sticky during storage. I do not think gliders need these additives.

Feeding plain boiled chicken or scrambled/hard boiled eggs along with fruits and vegetables is a good SHORT TERM diet for glider. My gliders consider scrambled egg night to be a real treat (nights I need to mix a batch of their staple but put it off until it is already time to serve dinner to 12 hungry gliders).

The problem lies in the fact that both chicken and eggs are too high in protein to be served straight over a long period of time. They are also too high in phosphorus and could not be balanced no matter what high calcium fruits and vegetables you choose. Gliders do not need an extremely high protein diet and long term it can be hard on their liver, kidneys and digestive system.

The most reliable way to feed your gliders a balanced diet long term is to choose one of the feeding plans that have a nectar like staple that will provide the protein, vitamins and calcium your glider needs each day. Variety is provided by offering many different fruits and vegetables with all glider diets (except BML because of the amount of calcium in the recipe requires high phosphorus vegetables for balance)

I have links to several widely used glider feeding plans on my web page to help you locate the information. My own GliderKids Feeding Plan is one of those options. I offer several variations on the basic recipe to meet owner preferences that have been expressed over the years.

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com/Staple-Recipes.html

One GliderKids recipe is similar to BML but contains a human grade calcium supplement in an amount that allows you to feed any fruits and vegetables you choose.

Most of my recipes do call for Wombaroo High Protein Supplement because I feel it provides a good balance of vitamins gliders need and it uses a human grade Vitamin K supplement because the Menadione synthetic vitamin K is also banned for use in pet foods in Australia.

You can order Wombaroo High Protein Supplement and bee pollen from the Pampered Glider. She ships very quickly;

http://www.thepamperedglider.com/supplements.htm

I purchase both the bee pollen and the Now Brand Calcium Supplement at a local Organic Food Grocery Store called NutritionSmart. I also by my locally produced honey there because I can get a larger container at a lower cost than available at the grocery store. If you need to order the calcium on line you can get it here:

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-881-now-foods-calcium-carbonate-powder-12-oz

and finally, yes you can use the same combination of yogurt and juice in my recipes, or you have the option of using one of the green juices (Odwalla, Naked or Bolthouse brands are fine) and adding an additional 1/8 teaspoon of the calcium supplement to make up for the calcium found in the yogurt juice.

Look over the options and feel free to ask questions if you need help choosing the staple recipe that will work best for you and your gliders.

Thank you candy so much!! Everything you said makes sense, and I am defintely going to try one of the gliderkids recepies, but another question! Should I buy the combo pack of bee pollen and wombaroo from that website for $37? Or get the bee pollen from a organic store? And do you have any idea about how long the 250g box of wombaroo should last 2 gliders? Thank you.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a couple related questions-

1. What is this synthetic vitamin K concern? This is the first I have heard of it

2. (this is more of a comment)
Regarding raw egg, if you pasteurize raw egg, it is by definition no longer "raw". You essentially cook it without triggering any chemical reaction that causes the proteins to tangle and bind, which is what we think of as "cooked".
It is still heated and kills bacteria the same as if you were to hard boil it, it just remains chemically unaltered.

3. anticaking agents, I understand your opinions on avoiding them (I'm not a fan of food additives myself), but every other animal food (humans, dogs, cats, birds, etc.) has a load of anticaking agents and other additives. Is there any research that shows that they are bad, or do you just avoid them because it's better to play it safe?

4. Protein, how much do they need? I see varying opinions oftentimes stating up to 50% protein, and many say much lower, has a consensus been reached on any sort of range?

5. Calcium supplements, rep-cal herpivite was recommended to me and I have a container of it, is there any reason not to use it?

6. Pellets, what exactly makes them so terrible (other than that the gliders don't like the taste). Dogs, for example, I'm sure aren't a huge fan of the taste of dog food, but we feed them nothing but Purina dry dog food and they live happy and healthy for 16-18 years, what is it that prevents something similar from being developed for gliders?


I 'm just trying to decide on a long term diet plan, and trying to research it all first, lots of confusing information out there.

Thanks!

For 2 gliders the 250 g box will make 4 1/2 batches of the GliderKids recipes so it will last about 8 months.

I have 12 gliders and go through a 1 kg box every 5 months.

Either source of bee pollen is fine. I prefer the bee pollen from the organic store because it is locally produced and I feel it is fresher than that packaged, shipped, sold to a distributor then resold on the internet so you really do not know how long between initial packaging and your purchase.

Ok awesome!! Thanks again candy!! And rjrope here's a couple of links about the vitamin k thing i was talking about. I just rather be safe than sorry and candy will have to answer your other questions. But I'm glad I'm not the only one looking for a good long diet plan! So many people are mis-informed and everything online is very confusing! I wish the previous owners of my gliders was better informed about their diets before I got them as they are 2yrs old or older but at least now they are with me and I can try to find better diets for them : )

www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53612

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One of your links is broken, but i looked into it some, and it does indeed look bad

I'm still unsure HOW bad, as I don't know much about it or the quantities involved, but it's a strong mark against instant HPW