I really need some advice and to be told Im not a terrible pet owner. I posted recently about a sick suggie having issues going to the bathroom and had since taken him to the vet, but he passed this morning :(

I got him and his brother at just under a year old (4 years ago) and had been feeding them the glider complete staple diet from exotic pet nutrition along with HPW (as directed) and fresh fruits and veggies and superworms. I always made sure the calcium phos. ratios were good and had never had a problem until a few months ago when I noticed the younger one having issues going to the bathroom. I then switched them off the staple and HPW for a bit to see if it would help and tried giving them a diet that closer resembled what they had gotten in the wild and to switch things up to see if it made a difference. It didn't so I took him to the vet this past Friday and he did x-rays, and came back and told me he had MBD pretty bad.

Until now, other than the bathroom issue, he had shown no other signs of anything being wrong. He was lively, ate, drank, climbed showed MINOR lameness in his back end but nothing close to paralysis) and overall, was his normal loving self. I found it odd that the vet was telling me he was malnourished when everything seemed ok but the x-rays were right there in front of my eyes. I broke down. He assured me that with treatment it wouldnt get any worse and could even possibly reverse the damage, but also advised that he wasnt sure if it could be reversed at this point. He said his bladder was fairly full which meant he wasnt emptying it all the way, and that the MBD was stopping him from going to the bathroom properly, but ensured me that he didnt have any blockages or kidney stones from the x-rays. So he gave me calcium to give him orally by syringe for the next 8 weeks and told me to get a UV light and calcium supplement to sprinkle on his food. He said I should see improvement within the next week and to keep him posted. I made sure before I left that everything else was ok. His weight, eyes, hydration etc. He said yes and all was good there. I did as he said and got the light and took him home, but nothing was the same after that. I dont know if the gas from putting him to sleep for the x-ray played a part, but he never seemed himself again after this. I did as instructed and gave him the calcium every morning but he just seemed to have been getting worse and never better. I would turn the light on as instructed in the morning only to come back 5 minutes later and find him clinging to the bar at the top as close as he could get to the light as possible. I turned it off knowing it would cause more damage to his eyes than it would help him, so that was the end of that. He still ate and drank normally, but just seemed to slow down more and more, and his bowel movements/urine became less and less. Yesterday was the first time his genitalia went back inside and I got excited for a minute because the vet told me it was stuck out from weakened muscles (the same result as having issues going to the bathroom) and I thought hey, maybe things will get better from here!

I went to bed early last night because I had to be up super early this morning and I went to check on him, and found him clung to the side of his bed, lifeless. I thought he was gone so I grabbed him but it startled him awake, he didn't want to let go. I pried his fingers off and put him in my hand where he just curled up and I instantly broke down, I knew this was the end. I held him and rubbed him for about an hour until he took his last breath. I havent been able to compose myself since. I am expecting myself, 5 months a long so I think the hormones are making it worse but I feel just terrible, like I did this to him and its my fault. I know I should have taken him to the vet much sooner, and am going to take his brother now to make sure he isnt on the same path as Stitch was.. but I guess I am looking for someone with experience in this matter to tell me it could have been something else and its not my fault. Im really beating myself up over this one. I thought I was doing everything right and now I don't know what to do. I dont know if I should keep his brother or let him go to someone with more suggies. I am not in the position to get another one right now with a baby coming but I know its not good to have just 1. I dont want to stress him out but I dont want to do the same thing to him as Stitch and feel like I have wronged them both. Im so distraught someone please tell me what to do. I hate feeling like this and I just dont know what to do. Should I have given him more calcium, did he have too much? I cant calm down and am worrying myself sick over what to do next. Sorry for the novel, I just know some people on here have more experience with them than vets around here do (took me days to find one period that would see him.)

First of all, though this may sound repetitive, I am so sorry for what happened to you and your gliders.

Unfortunately HLP or MBD is a life threatening disease for gliders. There's been a lot of advancement for sugar glider treatment since they were first introduced to the USA, and if found early, HLP is a treatable even curable disease; but it was not the case for Stitch, given that the calcium was being leeched from his muscles already. Suz has more information abuout this disease, you can even contact her, I believe, if you which to discuss more about the matter. Here is her article about HLP:

www.suzsugargliders.com/hindlegparalysis.htm

If your other glider is showing any of the symptoms listed in her article, and he came from the same breeder/family, it is very possible he may be affected with the same condition as Stich; so having him seen by a vet is the best option right now.

The HLP may not have been your fault. If they came from a neglectful home, that did not feed them properly, it is very possible that came to you already having HLP. Unfortunately gliders are really good at hiding their illnesses, and we don't see anything until sometimes is too late.

For now, I must say I am not very familiar with the exotic nutrition diet, neither I can find much information about it. Also, in order to change a diet, for any species, you need to be very familiar with the animals and the ingredient you plan to use. My recommendation would be to stick to one of the recognized diets listed below:

www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?Diet

Candy, is a member here, that created her own, and she is more familiar with gliders' nutritional needs. Here is her diet:

www.gliderkids-diet.com/

As for what to do with your glider, be considerate that he is probably grieving for his cage mate as you are, maybe even more. Adopting him out to new family as of right now would put too much stress on him. And it also wouldn't be recommended to try to introduce him to a new glider yet, you need to give him and yourself sometime to get over your grievances. But at the end, at leas in his case, it is always better if he doesn't stay alone. For now the best thing you can do is give yourself some time and think over your circumstances afterwards. I think you are capable of taking care of your current glider, maybe even get a companion for him later on, but you will need to be considerate of yourself and your glider.

Hope he is healthy and that you both recover emotionally. Best of lucks!

thank you for all the info, Im just distraught because he showed no signs of HLP.. his hind legs worked fine, the vet only said slight symptoms. I guess I was just hoping there was a chance it was something else causing him to die this quickly, or causing the deficiency because I really thought I was doing everything right. I cant stop beating myself up over this. I have had him and his brother since they were 8 months old so unfortunately its no ones fault but mine if there is no other explanation :(

I did not say that HLP is cause only by a bad diet. In her site, Suz mentions a few causes for HLP such as infections, parasites, or simply a genetic defect.

I know you were trying to do the best for your pets/babies, sometimes there's little we can do, sometimes we are misinformed; but whatever the cause, we care, and from such experiences we learn and try to correct ourselves. Do not beat yourself up over it, you are only hurting yourself and your babies (human and glider) because your emotions are transmitted to them.

As I said, the best you can do right now is change the diet to one of the most widely used ones, take your remaining glider to the vet, and care for him and yourself.

I know how hard losing a beloved pet can be, but you are taking the necessary steps to care for your other glider. Do not feel like you wrong them.

thank you, Im going to switch him to the BML tomorrow, just need to head to the city in the morning and find herptivite vitamin. I am still waiting for the vet to call me back, I have left two messages and he hasnt called. I just feel so bad I wish there was more I could have done and that he had given me more signs sooner. Sick to my stomach today :(

OK, I will try again - my first reply apparently was eaten by the internet gremlins.

I am so sorry for your loss. Please do not beat your self up over this. I am sure you gave your gliders a wonderful life over the past 4 years.

I believe you were just not given good information on feeding them. Calcium deficiency is a very slow process before it reaches a level that there are any symptoms. Gliders have a unique digestive system that is just not designed to digest the hard dry pellets that Exotic Nutrition stresses in their diet. Pellets should not be a primary part of a glider's diet because much of what ever nutrients they contain are not easily digested and absorbed. HPW is not a calcium rich diet and most fruits and vegetables are high in phosphorus throwing off the balance of the entire feeding. Pellets would also fill a glider up and cause it to eat LESS of the HPW, fruits and veggies gliders really need.

Just as the deficiency develops over time, correcting the problem does not happen immediately with calcium supplementation because it requires a great deal of time to rebuild bone.

I encourage you to have your other glider checked as well and hope that you will consider a diet change for him that will provide a better amount of calcium. It is almost impossible to boost the ratio of calcium in the diet with fruits and vegetables alone and even though you may have tried to insure the ratios of the fruits and vegetables you offered were good, it probably was enough calcium to off set the phosphorus in the pellets and other fruits and vegetables. Most folks try to add ratios to see if they are offering a balanced diet but ratios are a comparison of calcium amount to phosphorus amount. Adding ratios does not accurately reflect the actual amount of calcium in the foods. You must determine the amounts of calcium and phosphorus in the volume of each food you offer (including the staple) and add the mg amount of the calcium values and the mg amounts of the phosphorus values THEN divide the total amount of calcium in mg by the total amount of phosphorus in mg to get the correct ratio for the combination of foods offered.

I have links on my web page to a number of well balanced glider diets. My own GliderKids Staples contain a moderate amount of calcium in the recipe so the Staple does have a ratio of 2:1 and enough calcium to balance the phosphorus in the wide variety of fruits and vegetables you can offer with it.

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com/Staple-Recipes.html

The BML diet contains a large dosage of calcium and allows only mixed vegetables and limited choice of fruits to balance that calcium amount - but it might also be a good choice for your glider to have a consistent amount of added calcium daily.

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/sugargliders/bml/leadbeat.html

thank you for that info.
in regards to the last paragraph (sorry my head isnt on right today), are you for or against the BML as another option? I was choosing this diet for a few reasons.. 1 being that I can be careful of where my ingredients come from and is the easiest to make yourself. and 2 being because It is the only one with the ingredients readily available for me without having to order (pay an arm and a leg for shipping as well) and wait 3-4 weeks for me to receive high protein wombaroo powder here in Ontario.

Another question I have now is that I see your lists require Now brand calcium carbonate powder as opposed to the rep cal calcium supplement that my vet recommended I get immediately to start putting on their food.. what is the difference and why is my vet recommending it? I went and purchased it but will make the switch if the other is better for him. I just put in a rush order for herptivite vitamin supp. to a shop in Ottawa and have to travel an hour tomorrow to get it before work, but I want to do what is best for my remaining baby in terms of diet so any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would also like to know if this UV light he recommended I have on 10 hours a day (which I read can damage their eyes) is really necessary? It worries me and am wondering if I should return it while I still can. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'm so sorry for your loss. Like many of us, unfortunately, we too have been through this sad time.

I will not add to the above advice, suggestions, etc. as all is on point.

I will only note that I think Candy was suggesting that BML is a diet high in calcium which might be good in the case of your remaining glider. It is a restricted diet as to what else you can offer and must be followed exactly as written.

It concerns me that your vet suggested 'adding' the rep-cal to the top of their food. That's certainly not even close to a precise dose and even if they were deficient they could still be overdosed. Since you have already have the rep cal (or are picking it up), go ahead and make your batch of BML. Do not add any more of the rep cal than what is written in the recipe.

As time goes on, do as Candy has suggested and take a look at her's and other feeding plans.

Peace to you in this time.

Thank you very much. I will be sure to follow it accordingly. I find the veggies and fruits on the list for the BML are usually the ones commonly found in my fridge so it will be easier than going to my local grocer and picking up all these exotic fruits like I have been. And I was kind of wondering about that too, when he said just to 'sprinkle' it on their food. I am wondering more and more if there was another underlying issue, and wish I had have gotten blood work done also. He just never gave me the option that day. Im just so distraught I feel like there should have been other signs of something wrong.. our bond was unreal.. He went everywhere with me and I physically cant breathe today. I have been crying since it happened this morning, cant compose myself and can barely see straight anymore.

The BML diet is a good option for you because it does have all the calcium your glider needs. It has more than any other glider diet staple recipe. Just follow the BML feeding plan as written. I would NOT add any additional calcium because that would only be adding a strain on his kidneys to process the excess.

So I was looking into the UV light and this is a good post I found here in the forum:

www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=26635

At the end is up to you whether you take it our or not, but it does help with bone metabolism.

As for the sprinkle of calcium, I've never felt comfortable with such thing, so it is better if you stick to a diet's instructions.

Good luck!

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the advice. I have decided to wait a bit and get another suggie for Loki, thankfully the cage splits into two so it should make introducing them easier. Im just becoming heartbroken all over again right now. He was awake all night last night barking and all I could do is lay in bed and cry because he didnt want me, he wants his brother. Im so sad.. any advice on how to cope with this and help him cope? We buried Stitch today and I just wana curl up in a ball and cry. :(

That's funny. My male is also named Loki, and his sister is called Freyja. Sorry, off of topic.

Anyways, your glider is currently mourning for his brother as you have said. But he will get over it eventually, and hopefully yourself too. For now, is best if you spend as much time with him as possible, even if it looks like he doesn't want to be with you. He will most likely be looking for his brother, but as I said, he should recover soon enough, and it'll be even better once you get him a new cage mate.

Good luck.