Up to now I've been using this recipe for my girls, and while I'm sure they are eating well, I just have this nagging feeling that they aren't liking it.

www.exoticsugargliders.net/BLM_Recipe.html

Well, I was looking at potentially trying them on a different staple, and I noticed something... That is the only one that a)uses sweet potato baby food and b)doesn't use the mixed fruit juice, considering it calls for plain yogurt. That one is listed as BML Judie's version, but so are these:

www.mylittlegremlin.com/
sugarexotics.weebly.com/judies-bml.html

It's my understanding that Judith of www.mylittlegremlin.com is the creator of "Judies version", so what's with the inconsistency? I did notice that To and Fro gliders has the same recipe I'm using... www.toandfrogliders.com/FileHierarchy/InfoPouch/NewJoeyOwners/SupplyLinks/BML.htm

Should I stop what I'm feeding them now and switch to the recipe from Judith's website?

The differences are so slight that I doubt your gliders will show more of a preference toward one or the other, they are also not enough to alter the balance of nutrients for you to see a health difference...if you're looking for one.

Between the versions it would be up to you and your gliders as to if one version is more appealing than the other or easier for you to prepare (yogurt and juice separate or the gerber pre mixed).

morning

I touched on the calcium to phosphorous ratio in your other post a little bit. Bourbons modified leadbeaters (bml)has the highest calc:phosphorous ratio, I believe it is 5:1

which translates to 5 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous.

It is believed that glider bodies need to be feed a 2:1 ratio so the body can properly absorb the calcium. To much phosphorous can inhibit calcium absorption, when this happens the body leaches calcium from the gliders bones. Which can lead to hind leg paralysis, much like osteoporosis in humans where the body is leaching calcium from bones the bones can also become brittle.

Because of the higher ratio of calcium to phosphorous specific fruits and veg need to be feed with the (bourbons) bml recipe to bring that ratio down closer to 2:1 in the overall meal.

So, some folks a long the way felt the bourbons bml needed modified to adjust the ratio in the "staple" recipe rather than relying on a restrictive list of fruits and veg to balance the diet out.

This is why you may see different variations of the bml recipe. And some gliders just don't like it, or will eat it for a while then stop eating it * which happened with my gliders* and some diets get "updated". It's hard to tell what is an old recipe and what ones are current sometimes.( especially prior to having coffee )


When you add any new ingredient to the recipe it changes the ratio. When you change an amount of an ingredient it changes the ratio, when you remove an ingredient it changes the ratio. This is why it is always suggested to follow the recipe precisely. The ratio has already been calculated for you, any alterations changes it and you are no longer making that suggested recipe.

By adding sweet potato baby food and omitting the mixed fruit juice the calcium to phosphorous ratio is now not the same as the 5:1 in bourbons recipe. The sweet potato has probably increased the phosphorous level so the ratio probably is more like 2.7:1 (I'm guessing here I haven't done the math or made coffee
yet )instead of 5:1 which made it more flexible to feed a wider variety of fruits and veg.

The suggested fruit and veg list for the recipe that uses sweet potato is different than what is used for bourbons bml. There are some foods higher in calcium on the list you are using.

So in conclusion...if your gliders are eating it and cleaning the plate I would stick with it. If they are not cleaning the plate... or don't seem to like it then consider trying a different recipe, follow precisely and only offer the fruits and veg suggested for that recipe.

If you choose another recipe in the "bml family" it shouldn't be to disruptive to their digestion I wouldn't think. So really the choice is yours.

Okay I'm starting to make sense of all this. I was asking because I know BML is restrictive and you are supposed to follow the recipe verbatim, or risk throwing off the balance entirely. It seemed like adding or omitting an ingredient entirely would do just that.

My girls are definitely not cleaning their plate. They eat the fruits and veggies and mealies just fine, but they seem to eat a little less of their staple each night.

I'm hoping to keep their staple similar if possible, if I can get the girls to like it more. I thought about trying the Judies version on her website to see how they like it.

Also, what do people think of the Gliderkids Leadbeaters Diet? It appears remarkably similar, but the C:P ratio is pretty much right at 2:1, which seems great, but I've read that there were some worries about that diet.

(No offense Candy. It's just a LOT of info to take in and it's hard to tell what's old/no longer relevant and I'd like a clearer picture.)

If the gliders don't like one component in a recipe it can be enough to make them not eat it well.

In the recipe with sweet potatoes, the sweet potato babyfood is what mine wouldn't like. I tried sweet potato babyfood as a side and my gliders prefer real, fresh, steamed or baked sweet potato instead of the babyfood. They pretty much wouldn't touch the babyfood.

There is always some amount of controversy regarding any diet I think. The thing is, it can be the best diet and most widely suggested to use, but.... if your gliders don't eat it, it won't do them any good and it's not the best diet for them.

Bourbons bml- aside from being a really high ratio, also has a high Iron content which is also questionable as far as healthy long term organ functions go.

In Candy's diet I think ( correct me if Im wrong) the iron isn't as high, and the ratio is closer to the suggested ratio so you can feed a very good range of fruits and veg with it.

Her recipe also requires a different brand of calcium to be used. Different brands of calcium have different amounts of calcium per teaspoon.

The NOW brand that she uses has a higher amount per teaspoon than the RepCal has per teaspoon. So even though she is using 1 teaspoon less of calcium, there is more calcium in that one teaspoon compared to Repcal. (Even though she used less they are getting more.)

The NOW brand is a human grade calcium supplement. Repcal is primarily used for reptiles.

Personally I haven't seen anyone concerned with using the gliderkids recipe. But like I said every diet is up for debate, all diets are questioned and argued over

It doesn't help when your trying to make the best decision and you find so much conflicting information, I know, believeeeeeee me I know but in the end it comes down to what your gliders like and will eat and secondly what you feel comfortable feeding them and what you can afford to feed them.

No offense taken Dalton. It is always best to ask questions to clear things up.

I believe Judie's BML did include the sweet potato baby food several years ago, but you are correct it is not in her CURRENT recipe found on her web page. (click on nutrition on her page to get to the recipe)

www.mylittlegremlin.com/

It is always best to use the ORIGINAL writer of a recipe's web page and instructions for any gliders diet. Judie may have made a change in her recipe at some point that was not picked up and updated by the individual that copied her diet to their own web page.


Most developer's of glider diets do re-evaluate their recipes and make changes if they consider them necessary. The only recipe that has NOT had some changes made to it based on the developer's re-evaluation or on new information being learned is Bourbon's original BML recipe. I understand that she does not have access to her own web page to make any changes or revisions even if she were inclined to do so.

I modified my own recipes several years age in response to the concern that BABY CEREAL contains too much iron supplement for gliders. The only GliderKids recipe I did not modify was my Leadbeater's because it would have required more major changes to have added Wombaroo High Protein Supplement in place of the cereal as I did in my other recipes by changing the amount of WHPS.

My Gliderkids Leadbeater's recipe provides an amount of calcium in the recipe so that there are no restrictions on the fruits and vegetables you can feed with it. A wide variety of fruits and vegetables can be offered.

With all of the GliderKids staple recipes, I prefer feeding one fruit and one vegetable each night but a different pairing so that my gliders get 7 different fruits and 7 different vegetables each week. I limit the high phosphorus corn and peas to no more than two nights a week when I feed either Peas & Carrots or Mixed Vegetables. I offer a dark leafy green such a spinach, collards or kale at least one night each week.

I stand corrected on the iron

Why is it I'm more accurate prior to drinking coffee??? It's like the yummy sweet nectar turns my brain into a puddle of mud

I'm sure all of my nutrient ratios are out of whack and you'll all think I'm crazy. My little guy gets something different almost every night, usually whatever I have on hand. Some combination of: yougut, banana, apple, oats, snap peas, grapes, a nut or seed or two. Some fresh and some dried. About an eighth to quarter cup total. He does get crickets every few months, or a moth if I catch one. He hates live meal worms but occasionally eats dried ones.
He will be 12 years old next month, I haven't purchased glider pellets or supplements in about a decade. The only thing that I have noticed is a recent change to his neck gland. I think it could be more about age than diet.