Hello,
I recently adopted two male sugar gliders from two different breeders. They told us that both of them were neutered. We also got them both checked out by a vet who said they were free from fleas and parasites. We have had Winnie for about 6 weeks, he is about 4 months old now, and he's a very happy glider. He's bonded with us quite well and he is very high energy. Mo, on the other hand, is six months old, we've had him for a month, and he is very lethargic. his fur wasn't in the greatest condition when we got him and it seems like he overgrooms a lot. He eats fine, but he's quite crabby and hasn't seemed to bond with us very much at all. We switched their pouches for a week or so and let them get comfortable with each other's scent before we did any introductions. We held each of them in either hand inside their pouches and let them sniff each other about two feet apart, and mo lunged out of his pouch and attacked Winnie. We were able to pull them apart before any damage was done, although mo bit my boyfriend and broke his skin pretty bad. We haven't tried any more introductions. Mo and Winnie's cages are at least 6 feet apart but they occasionally hiss and click at each other still.
My question is, what are we doing wrong and will they ever get along? Should we have waited to do the introduction until mo was more comfortable in his new home? I feel terrible for stressing them out and I am scared to even switch their pouches any more to avoid any more stress. I am also very worried about mo because he doesn't seem to like people or other gliders at all and just wants to be alone.
Help?

Or could it be that their age difference is playing a role and mo is trying to establish dominance?

This might end up being a lengthy post, so sorry in advance....

First, you may want to make sure they are in fact neutered. People lie, a lot when it comes to gliders and their history with the owner when they are selling them.

If one or both are intact males that could be a part of the issue and they should both be neutered asap. Gliders are very territorial. Do either of them have a bald spot on top of their heads? If they were recently neutered their hormone levels may not have dropped yet, so they may still be a little feisty.

Second, what are you feeding them?

Mo may not have been on the best diet prior to coming to you. Pellet diets can stain fur to a brownish color... a good diet would probably help his energy and his fur will go back to being a nice grey.

Third, Have you had them to a vet and tested for parasites ?

If Winnie is healthy and Mo has parasites, Mo can pass the parasites to Winnie. Considering Mo doesn't seem to have as much energy it might be wise to get him checked out before you try to introduce them again. They need tested twice for parasites once, then wait 30 days then test again in case the parasites were dormant for the first test.

Fourth, How big is their cages and what do you have in them?

Back flips and over grooming can def be stress signs, as well as being sings of under stimulation, and loneliness, to small of a cage, lack of toys and a glider safe wheel.

Mo needs a health check, they both need neutered if they aren't already and they both need an adequate size cage, with a glider safe wheel, and lots of toys to stimulate their minds.

Fifth, What are the methods you are using to bond with Mo? and what are his reactions?

Every glider bonds differently, Mo may just need more time, or YOU may need to do things differently than you did with Winnie.

When all these things have been addressed then you can try to introduce them again, in a neutral environment. You had two male gliders in their pouches on a human that one glider doesn't trust yet. It could have been a lot more serious than just a bite.

Most often introductions are done in a neutral environment, one that doesn't smell like either glider, like a bathroom in the bath tub. One at one side and one at the other with some space in the middle for them to check each other out. It allows them some space, and you access in case they ball up in a fight.

Winnie's Cage^


Mo's Cage ^

I currently have them on the Pet Glider Fresh Diet, but I am open to suggestions about better diets. I was told that Mo was mainly fed a dry food every night with just a slice of apple, which didn't sound very healthy for him. Mo is older and a little bigger than Winnie, but he eats less than Winnie and almost always leaves a little food the next morning. Winnie eats it all up.
I have Winnie in a decent sized cage (see above picture)with a wodent wheel, a few sleeping pouches, a tunnel, and eucalyptus branches we bought from a guy in California who specializes in growing eucalyptus for gliders.
Mo's cage is a little bit shorter, it is actually a ferret cage, and he has sleeping pouches, a tunnel, a blanket to sleep in, and a few rope swing-type things. I have another wodent wheel coming in the mail for him. I was hoping they would get along so I could order the Congo cage for them both to be housed in. Mo also has some eucalyptus.
They always have fresh water available and a dry food(that they only munch on occasionally). I feed them their half an ice cube of their staple each night, usually along with a fresh fruit and/or veggie that has a ratio close to 2:1 on the calcium to phosphorous scale.
I will definitely look into getting them both into seeing another vet that has more experience with sugar gliders so they can tell me if they are both in fact neutered, and to see if any other health issues are going on.
When bonding with Mo, ill leave him in his sleeping pouch and set him on my lap and talk to him and let him sniff my hands. If he is sleepy, he will let me rub behind his ear and under his chin. If he's awake, he usually hides from my hand and burrows deep down in his pouch. I also let him lick plain yogurt or a little bit of is staple food off of my fingers when he is in the pouch. I stick a fleece square in my pillow each night and in the morning, put it in his pouch with him so he sleeps with my scent. During tent time, he loves to hang out on us, jumping from my boyfriends shoulder to mine, letting us pet him and touch him. He's usually very friendly during the night, but pouch protective during the day. I just received a bonding pouch in the mail that I think I'll try and use with him during the day.

However, I just came across some photos of a wodent wheel that impaled a glider! So sad! I think I want to get a different wheel, what wheel do you recommend?

The cage sizes look ok, but those babies need toys!! and what critters are in the other cages?

Fleece sets and tunnels are great, but they can't "play" with them they need actual toys to stimulate them.

The woodent wheel is NOT SAFE! Please cancel your order and order 2 glider safe wheels, like the Raptor, Stealth, Custom Cruiser.

Woodent wheels are not designed for gliders they are designed for rodents that actually run on wheels. Gliders don't "run" they leap and leap and leap again to propel the wheel. There is a bar in the center of the wodent wheel that causes many broken tails, broken backs, caused many deaths. You can see for yourself the most recent glider death from a woden wheel that was documented with pics on this link. Mind you it is graphic and for that I apologize, but please have a look!
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55884


It is Easter time, which means there are loadssssssssss of cheap plastic toy stuff out there that are glider safe! Easter eggs are great for foraging, plastic bracelets, to hang that they can take down and carry into their pouches, a cool whip container with a 2 inch hole cut in the top filled with ping pong balls or pom pom's for a ball pit, braided fleece so they can "undo" the braid, drinking straws curled with a pencil sharpener, feathers, toddler toys, plastic baby toys.... look through peoples pics to get some idea's










That's a good diet if you are using the vitamin supplement specifically made to be added to the staple each night? If not, then it really isn't providing the nutrients and calcium they need.

We have not mixed the vitamin supplement in with the food yet because I am not sure about the brand we have. we do give them plain yogurt to make sure they get some calcium. The brand of calcium supplement we have is called Exoterra. It has a lizard on the box so I'm thinking that its not glider safe. what supplements do you recommend?
And thank you for all your help. I am going to go out tomorrow and buy some toys for my little guys!

If he is jumping back n forth between the two of you he is getting bonded The pouch protectiveness can be worked on. My male was extremely pouch protective, he just needed us to make a few different changes in how we were using the bonding pouches.

Most bonding pouches are deep and close with a zipper, so the glider can't see, which makes him scared. Lunging, crabbing, slapping, biting are really their only defense against anyone in their "personal" space. They do those things to keep you at a distance. Pouch protectiveness is usually fear based not aggressive based.

I found regular bonding pouches to be more of a pain in the arse when bonding with Simon. I had recently posted this to someone else so insert 'him' where the her's and she's are lol I'm to lazy to go through the whole post and fix them.

So I started using a single layer pouch that was nice and wide, that I could easily role down a couple of times. It will almost be boat shaped. For the first few days just have the pouch with her in it in your lap. She's probably going to lunge and crab still, You can also put a small fleece square over her so feels a little less exposed for the first few days. She will still be able to lift her head up and see whats going on. That's the big thing with I found with pouch protectiveness, they need to SEE and in a deep zipped up pouch they can't see what is scaring them. When you make a noise she will crab and look to see what made the noise... When you move, she will crab then look to see whats going on...It doesn't take to long for them to figure out all those scary things aren't going to hurt them.





Once you have her in the pouch I usually keep the pouch in my lap, and offer a treat. When you offer her a treat don't try to put it right up to her face, give her an inch or two so she has to stretch her neck out to take it, This shows her you are trying to respect "her space" and makes her meet you half way. The first few times or even first couple of days she may try to swat the treat out of your fingers, that's fine just don't retract your hand or react to her fast snatch of the treat. She will start to see that you aren't going to hurt her and will start taking the treat nicer, by you not jerking your hand back your also not scaring her with your fast reaction. When she starts taking the treats nicer you can start offering them closer to her face, just proceed slowly each day a little closer until you can put the treat right up to her nose.

Consistency is a huge thing for pouch protective gliders. Get on a schedule, everyday at the same time get them out of the cage, everyday at the same time do treat time. Even a pouch protective glider will get used to YOUR routine and come to expect to be taken out of the cage at 11 am or whenever you get them out for bonding time, they will expect treat time at 11:15 am or when ever you start offering treats. This will help the pouch protective to know whats happening and she will not be as surprised that you are randomly getting her out of the cage and out of her sleeping pouch etc...

So part of the reason for the open pouch is so they can easily lift there head and See whats happening. The other reason for it is so YOU aren't reaching blindly into a dark pouch and getting bitten. With the open pouch YOU can also see where she is, and what she is reacting to by crabbing/lunging

One important thing to understand here is Lunging, slapping, biting are a gliders only real defense. The objective is to scare away predators, keeping predators out of the gliders personal space. You my friend are considered to be just that, a predator.

Now, once she is at the point where she is taking treats a little nicer, and not crabbing as much in the pouch at every little thing... Then you can proceed with trying to pet her in the pouch.


When she has her head tucked/sleeping, fold your fingers down and pet her back with just your knuckles.

1. A bite to the knuckles doesn't hurt as much as bites on finger tips
2. A closed hand looks less like a claw coming at them and is much less threatening

If she crabs thats just fine let her crab, If she raises her and looks at your hand just be calm stop petting and leave your hand right where it is!! lunging is pointless right here because you have already broken her personal space invisible barrier, your hand is already there do NOT RETRACT IT. She will most likely tuck her head back down or try to get more into the corner of the pouch, just let her. When she settles down again start petting with your knuckles again. Once she gets more comfortable being touched on her back you can work your way up to her head. Once she is ok with head being petted then you can start using your fingertips instead of your knuckles.

Once she's ok with all this.... then you can cup her with your hand, at this point she shouldn't be crabbing or lifting her head as much to see what your up to. You can pet her while your "holding" .

Now at this stage, I started unrolling the pouch by one turn so gradually the pouch gets deeper. Leave at one unroll for a few days or a week depending on her behavior. Then do another unroll and so on until the pouch isn't rolled down at all. You can also use the regular bonding to help her get used to the zipper sound, just open and close it near her every now n then so she gets used to the sound so when you put her back into that bonding bag she is already used to the new zipper sound and won't crab over you opening and closing the pouch.

Sorry this is so long, but details are sort of important when working with pouch protective gliders. Just remember there is no time frame for this, only proceed to the next step when you feel the glider is ready, don't rush it!!

All of these methods really helped Simon. I can offer him any pouch now with no fussing at all, I can have my hand and half my arm in there with him now.

Take your time, get on a routine, and be confident when you interact with her. only move on to the next step when you feel she is ready for it. This is not an overnight fix, and progress is very exciting when it happens even if it's a little thing lol Open pouch like this outside of the cage should always be supervised (obviously lol )

If you are going to stick with that diet, you can only use the supplement that she makes. http://www.thepetglider.com/sugar-glider-nutrition/product/17-the-pet-glider-complete-multi-vitamins-with-calcium-180.html She does not state what brand calcium or how much of it she uses, so there is NO way to substitute it for anything else.

Gliders need a balanced diet that offers them a 2:1 ratio, (which means 2 calcium:1phosphorous) to maintain bone health and help prevent hind leg paralysis which often happens with gliders. You are currently feeding them a lot of foods high in phosphorous with little to no calcium. What calcium they are getting can't be absorbed easily by their bodies because of the huge level of phosphorous they are getting.

The recipe I use, uses RepCal no phosphorous calcium supplement, which is a reptile calcium powder, some reptiles also require a 2:1 ratio like gliders.

There are many other "approved" diets out there you can look over if you don't want to order the supplement for the diet your on.

Here are a few of them, there is also BML and HPW and a few others out there as well. Just look over the recipes, and see which one might be easiest and most affordable for you to always have. What ever recipe you choose, make sure to follow the recipe precisely. Use the same brand of calcium and ingredients the recipe calls for, other wise you are throwing off the ratio for that recipe and they may not be getting all of what they need. Fruits and veg should also be a part of their nightly meal. Bml has a very strict fruit and veg list that needs to be followed, otherwise they will be getting Too MUCH calcium which can be just as bad as not enough

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com/Staple-Recipes.html

Different brands of calcium have different amounts of calcium per teaspoon, this is why it's not suggested to use a different brand that what is called for in the recipe you are going to use. So if I put in 1 teaspoon of Repcal and you use 1 teaspoon of the brand you have, you may be giving them more than I am or less than I am per teaspoon.