Okay so when I first got my gliders, hours of research went in to the little guys, and I still spend a lot of time on this site or in a book or on Pinterest looking for toy ideas
But when I first started out, I found these Youtube videos hosted by "Dr. David M Brust" and their channel is called the sugargliderproschannel. As an inexperienced soon to be owner, I took his videos to heart and didn't know that no, potty training is hard, no don't use glider wheels, and the cage in the background is terribly bland for a sugar glider etc.
Like usual, I was looking for more videos about sugar gliders (Yes, I have an addiction) and I noticed that theres another video called "ASGV- The sad truth". I only watched about a minute of it, because judging by the comments it may not be the most trustworthy source or popular opinion.... When I have questions now I resort to all of you and of course, my lovely vet who patiently listens to me and helps.
So I guess the real question is... What's up with the ASGV and are these videos at all recommendable?
I know everyone's common feelings towards Wodent Wheels, but I have never heard these videos mentioned.. All I remember is his techniques didn't work for nail trimming, potty training or bonding very well for me among other things..

They are I've heard made up/created by one of the brokers of mill breeders. I also wasn't sure what to think about them, in the beginning, I had to be convinced actually, after all they're veterinarians right? If you research them and watch everything they show and tell, you will pick up on their tactics. That org, as far as I can tell isn't even real, or I can't find the information to confirm its more than just videos.

I came across those video's when I first began my research as well, However, I also read, a lot! . There was another guy that did video's too, but I found he really wasn't very informative and was very annoying. So I started watching the ASGV ones, Initially I thought the information was more detailed, less annoying and some of the things he suggested did seem more helpful and answered some of my questions.

The suggestions also seemed more budget friendly, smaller starter cages, non cluttered cages, right on up to the when I got to the pellet diet. Even before I got my gliders I have never felt pellets were a good long term diet for them. The potty "training" bit was interesting though, and I did try it with Leela, which did result in her going potty, but it still ended up ON me so that was quickly abandoned as it seemed to stress her out more than it helped.

The thing is, most of those video's are a couple years old. Yet they are still the ones new owners seem to find because there aren't any other informative video's out there.

People want easy, they want information that doesn't hurt their brains to read. Even on this forum people really don't want to read. They will ask the same question another person asked 2 posts down from their own. It's to complicated to read other peoples posts, and get the answers to their own questions than it is to type out the same question that was just asked. Or maybe they think they will get a different answer if they ask it again lol I don't know but after you have been on here for a while it will become noticeable that people just don't want to READ.

They want video's that have answers to their questions, and they believe those answers because it's 1 a vet, and 2 they didn't have to READ it. When they read things they get to much conflicting information from to many different opinions and can't seem to form their OWN opinions from the information they read.

So, Personally I think experienced owners should make some video's with more accurate information, and advice that almost all new owners ask, . Hopefully those video's will be listed before the ASGV video's and viewed more. At least then people will start to question the ASGV video's more before they start wasting money on the "starter cages" unsafe wheels, and pellets.

I mean, I'm almost surprised someone hasn't watched his video and made a video covering the same topic with correct information. To me that would be a valuable resource for new owners and at least get them to start thinking on their own and forming their own opinions on what makes sense and what doesn't.

It's true that they are associated withcreated by Pocket Pets. Research into the corporate tangle proves it. Pocket Pets relies on impulse buying and making things seem 'easier' than what experienced glider owners know to be the truth. Any site that says "don't" seek advice anywhere else on the web should be suspect right away...regardless of the subject. Pocket Pets and other mill breeders don't care how long a glider lives once sold, how well they're taken care of and don't sell truly healthy gliders, but rather ones from dirty and inbred bloodlines.

Definitely something to be fired up about. Just keep spreading the word and the truth.

Here are Lucky Glider's Videos that were made in response to the mis-information contained in the ASGV videos

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=22594

Leela, I have seen some videos when I was researching done by sugar owners. The thing is they can become opinionated, outdated, and sometimes are just made by people that just like to film themselves. I've seen some with horrible instructions on care and needs presented, the best thing about those are them being regular, unknown people, they are not always considered reliable anyway, which could be the down fall of one really good informative one.

I also wish someone, very knowledgeable about quality care, but not so biased on specific care of these amazing critters would produce a video. I know of one named "Up All Night" I think, that looked good, but it was being done in a series, and although covered good information and done well, I would still like to see one that went through quality basic care and needs for sugar gliders.

I go through You Tube sometimes for research-looking for video reviews and comparisons, tips-for things or projects I'm interested in doing/learning, and sometimes just for entertainment. I come across so many annoying videos (in multiple subjects) that just go on and on with more chatter than give informative information. I've also seen some good informative ones, but some are delivered better than others, some are more opinionated than others.

As it was mentioned already, we all have opinions and routines and we like to think we are all doing our best for our gliding critters so of course we're doing it right. But that doesn't mean the next person here isn't, even if they're on a different routine or diet, or whatever way they feel is doing the best for their sugar gliders. Obviously there are things that will set us all in a tither, when we see neglect, abuse or just really poor diets and lacking in their care all around. Maybe a video on "What Not To Do" should be made, comparing what is good and what is not good and why. That way it's not limited a specific cage management, diet, routine and whatnot that one is specifically follow and want to label as better than everybody else whose not using it.

I'll admit....I was originally taken in by those videos. I've worked closely with many vets before and they're usually very honest and knowledgeable about their clients.

However, when this guy started going on and on about how they were basically fine on a diet of glider pellets with a little bit of gravy mixed in I started getting suspicious. He was also so quick to attack the word and credibility of people on forums (If I remember correctly, right in the first few seconds of each video) that I became wary of his information.

I was immediately trustworthy of a vet, because I expect vets to have a higher education than me with animals, but maybe he's an actor or just paid really well to lie? lol I don't know.
I just wanted to know why I have never heard him mentioned negatively or positively on this website because in the beginning, I did rely on him for information. As for the ease of access to information, I agree that people like videos for the visual aspect as well as the easy route. I personally listened to his videos while at work. I would play them with the window in the background, so I wasn't watching him, but listening while getting other tasks accomplished. I feel like a really cool thing to have would be like how a lot of vloggers make "Question Videos" where they answer their viewers questions, as well as make other videos. I know that is catering to the more lazy audience, but it is also carrying more weight for those who are visual or may absorb more form listening to it?
As for the videos. I am qualified to make more interesting and higher quality videos than just people holding their iPhones/using their laptop webcams (I am a photojournalist), but I feel like I am not experienced enough as an owner to make them
Thank you Candy for the videos, I love the "how to glider proof a room"... it reminds me of the first time I let mine out, even the tiny cracks under the door had material rolled under to leave no space, I was so scared they were gonna find somewhere to get out and disappear lol. unfortunately, I've only ever seen one of their videos before by Lucky Glider. It is their nail trimming video. They definitely need a signal boost so ASGV doesn't show up first on Youtube.

Prospective sugar glider parent here. Can anyone offer any definitive reputations of the information provided in the ASGV videos? Even if it could be proven that ASGV is just a shill for PP, it doesn't follow that the advice offered in their videos is worthless or dangerous. It would be in the best interest of PP to offer sound advice that would prolong the life of their animals, otherwise they would lost business pretty quick to backyard breeders and other competitors. It would also be in their best interest to promote a professional association that enhances the quality of vetrinary serviced for sugar gliders for the same reason. After all, they probably make more money selling food than selling the animals, and the longer they live the more food they will consume.

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just trying to sift through all of the conflicting information, and I would hate to think that I wasted an hour of my life listening to these videos!

I don't know... one handthe common sense and years of experience of the community of people having sucesses with their gliders, and on the other hand a company known to sell animals which are treated in an unethical way from the start... how do you spell conflict of interest?
to answer your argumentation, NO, it is not in the best interest of a company specialized in using impulse to sell gliders to give you sound advices on how to keep your animals healthy, their interest is that they appear to be easy maintenance, and then that they die quick enough so that you feel guilty ("you did not treat them properly, see, it's your fault, look at our vet"), don't question the health status of the animal from the start ("it's not our fault, we did everything to give you advices"), especially by trying to supress every voices which could suggest that ("don't talk to other people who already have gliders, they know nothing"), and then seek replacement. It should be noted that they did improve their diet (at least now it includes a HPW clone) over the years under the pressure of those same people that they tell you to not listen to.

You just have to listen to the advices said in those videos and think a little to see that once removed the argument of authority, there's nothing logical with those.
Many advices about behavior are just borderline abuse (yeah next time you try to nip me, I'm going to put my hand forcefully in your mouth, you will learn damn kid!... I'm also going to wake you up in the middle of your sleeping hours, for the sake of it, just because I can, because I am a good parent who impose my will in opposition to those bad bad hippies who have terrible terrible kids they can't control, and so on ), typical argumentation relying on emotion rathher than reason.
Then you have the nutritional advices... do you really think any animal is fine with only 1 piece of apple, pellets and a mixture full of filler every day? It's not good for humans, neither for cats and dogs nor cattle, why would it be for any other animals, naturally omnivorous ones even?

Finally, you have to ask where are the data, om which researches those informations are based? I mean really, I'm ready to accept things which are against all odds and common sense, but it's at the condition that there is actual research proving that those are more accurate than the logical assumptions and explaining why.

If you seek a definite answer, you will not get it, because since there is almost no researches made in the topic (gliders are not common enough as pets, and not an endangered species, so there is no motivations to finance such research) you have in frontal opposition 2 ways of thinking, one which tries to respect the animals and try to be as close as possible to their observed behavior and needs, and the other which only considere them as things we possess and seek to maximize the benefits of their trade.
Knowing that, I'd rather prefer following the advices of people who are known to have healthy animals since a long time and can back up their experience, than the arguments of authority from a shadowy association which never shows the data.

Any vet that believes an exotic pet marsupial will thrive on pellets immediately loses credibility with me. Bottom line is money.
PP gliders may survive, but not thrive.

There are some good videos out there. Izzy Silver made one and there's also the Up All Night series. Just search "up all night gliders" on YouTube.

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As a one time PP client, I recently received an email from them. They are recruiting distributors.

I watched their 20 minute video interview of a brand new distributor, and it was somewhat disturbing. They mainly talked about following the 'script', not the gliders. This man (who had never even seen a glider before he was recruited) said his sales for one weekend event were $12,000 with $6,500 net profit! Ugh!

@sjusovare

Remember, I'm not defending PP, I'm just looking for more solid evidence than he-said-she-said.

How do I know how successful any particular member of this community is at caring for his or her sugar glider so that I would take their advice more seriously that offered in the ASGV videos? Obviously just because someone is a vet (or claims to be a vet) doesn't mean that they are an expert, or that their advice is sound. But by that same token, someone who owns one or more sugar gliders is also not automatically an expert. On the other hand, If you have some senior sugar gliders, that obviously lends some credibility to what you say!

What evidence is there that this company treats its animals unethically? I keep reading this accusation, but I haven't yet seen anyone present evidence of this.

It's still not clear to me why they would want to make it appear as though sugar gliders are low maintenance. That would immediately tarnish their reputation and lead to bad press and bad reviews. The ASGV videos make it pretty clear that sugar gliders require quite a bit of attention and care, so if that was the goal of Pocket Pets--to deceive people into thinking that suggies are maintenance-free--then they failed miserably.

If all they were interested in was making sure the animal dies as quickly as possible, then why would they take such pains to warn new owners against things like environmental toxins and dangerous cages? The fact that they improved their dietary recommendations also contradicts your theory. If they aren't interested in the welfare of the pets they sell, then why would they bother updating their dietary recommendations.

I probably didn't catch all of their behavioral advice, since I was doing two things at once. However, it's not clear to me why putting a finger in their mouth to discourage biting is "abuse." Dog owners know to do things like holding their dog's mouth shut even if it play bites in order to discourage the behavior. That's training, not abuse. You are providing the animal with a home, a life of ease and safety, "three square meals" and companionship. I don't think it's much to ask that they not bite you.

If the videos did recommend waking up the suggie whenever you want just for the sake of it then that is obviously wrong. I just don't remember hearing him say that. Nor do I recall anywhere in the videos where he recommends "1 piece of apple, pellets and a mixture full of filler." You just said earlier that the sugar gravy or whatever it's called is an HPW clone, which presumably means that it is not "full of filler." True, we omnivores eat quite a variety of food, but my understanding is that pellets and "gravy" are designed to mimic the nutrition a suggie would get from a variety of different sources, and fresh fruits and vegetables fill in the rest.

I don't know what all of the information in the videos is based upon either. I would love to see some actual scientific literature on the subject. But typically, the advice offered by sugar glider owners does not tend to include references to scientific papers either, so that is neither here nor there.

I think you are ultimately right about who to trust. The proof is in the pudding. Who has successfully cared for healthy sugar gliders who lived to a ripe old age. The only remaining question is, how do we know who these people are?

The proof are simply the thousands of gliders sold while they are not yet old enough, the fact that there is no lineage, that the animals in question are bought in bulk, the fact that you aslso normally do not sell an animal like you sell a TV set, which is just what they do, what their vendors are trained to do and so on. The gliders they sell are so young and they already passed through several hands, 1st from the mill breeder, then from the PP buyers, then from the PP sellers, then from the (hopefully) final owner... All that is unethical when it comes to animals by opposition to consummable good such as a TV set. In many case you also do not get the glider you see at the fair, you get another one, the day after...

They did not change their dietetary recommandation by themselves, but under the constant pressure of members of the glider community, and after a very good economic deal for them made by the creator of critter love diet which is what they resell with huge benefits rebranded with their name and this was simply more advantageous for them than what they previously sold.

Same goes with warning about environmental contaminations, the problem is that PP did sell contaminated cage at some point (I don't think it was intentional however) and several of their clients were starting to ask questions and to make noise, which was bad for the sales because the death could too obviously be directly attributed to the product (bad press), which is a lot less obvious when there is a possibility that you are the one who did not care properly for your animal, especially if you do not seek advices from other sources, add to this that by "warning" potention owners about contaminations, you also keep them buying from you rather than seek other options (good way to keep captive buyers).

They do get bad press and bad reviews, only it's not in the newspapers who almost never talk about gliders, it's on blogs, on forums, wherever people do gther and discuss, in opposition to their own nebula of "informational sites" where all the information comes only one way without interractive discussion. They also at some level do not care about local bad press, because they maximize their sale in one or 2 days of presence to a fair or mall, "harvest" lots of orders there using emotional impulse -"see it's cute, you want one, it's cute, the best little pet one can have, and see, it's cute"- and the next day they are gone to another city and/or state, and since the buyers bought on impulse, they usually did not research the animal before buying, they ususally did nopt even know of the existence of such an animal before. The only bad press they care about is the big noisy global one, which is why they seek to counter it by making their own informational sites.

And indeed, you do not know of the specific sucess of one particular glider owner, however, the fact that it is a discussion forum also implies that any bad advice or misinformation will be quickly corrected by other people, and where there are uncertainties, there will be a discussion about the various possibilities, which is the exact opposite of the argument of authority used by the ASGV which is "we are vets specialized in gliders, so we know best, what we say is true, every others are liar, no need to discuss with us,, we know best".

My 2 PP babies are still happy and healthy after 4+ years. My ex wasn't so lucky. One of his girls died after just a few months and the other died 2 years later. We don't know why they died.

Pocket Pets told us to feed them Glider Chow, an apple slice with Glid-a-mins sprinkled on every other day, and maybe some white bread. That is all mine ate for 2+ years until I learned that there was a better way. They were kind of scrawny until I started feeding them a better diet. This forum has helped me immensely!