For many reasons, I did not want to put the 2 joeys (in their 5th month) with Leo & Luigi (respectively 2yo and 18 months)... well... the 2 cages were in my sleeping room tonight because I had guests in the room where the joeys usually are.

I woke up this morning to something unexpected, not a noise in the house (weird), then looking at the cage of the 2Ls, I notice that they managed to open it (has happened a few times before), but the 2 were nowhere to be seen . I checked the cage of the joeys, all closed, there was movements in a pouch.. ok I thought, so I kept on searching the 2 others in the room...

After half an hour searching everywhere I could think of, I finally noticed there was something strange with the joeys cage, the floor plate was raised in a corner, then I understood.... the cage is indeed escape free, but not entrance free (the bar space on the floor level under the plate is larger than the rest of the cage) : the 2Ls managed to raise the plate and enter... My blood froze .

So I checked the pouch... and I found the 4 of them sound asleep in it and when I tried to get the 2Ls back in their cage, I got a choir of 4 gliders crabbing.

I did not want to put them together, not before the joeys were grown and that at least 2 of the males were neutered (finding a vet who agrees to do it proves to be quite difficult over here, gliders are regulated here and almost no vets have any experience with them), but it seems they decided for me

My goodness they were determined little gremlins! I suppose you could separate them if you found it totally necessary (I don't remember the sex of the joeys). What fascinating and funny critters they are!

I've heard of this happening before, at least you know they will get along now lol.

I would still say you might want to separate them if you have any females in there until the males can be neutered. Otherwise it won't be long and your colony will be producing

NiCE

Clever, determined and rambunctious rascals!

My only concern now would be the neutering process, this is very important and critical imo. Otherwise, how nice of them to make introductions so easy for you

Hopefully you can find a vet soon, I don't know where you're located but here is a link to vet database, maybe you can find one through here

If not, notice link on bottom to vets willing to consult, maybe you can find a vet willing to contact from that list.

Best of luck to ya!

I still have some time to fix the problem considering that females never had heat before the 9th month down her familly tree (9-10 months also seems to be the usual age among gliders over here, I'm not sure where our lines come from, they also always seem smaller than their american counterpart).

What worries me the most is :

1) to find a vet who is actually willing to do it, the vet database does not list any vets in France... I know of some, but both at the other end of the country. Our regular exotic vet here is fine for usual health issues, but is not keen on trying surgery on animals he doesnt really know. (everything is complicated over here regarding animal regulation, we're one of the only country which has a legal list of domestic animals, and everything which is not listed there is submitted to administrative autorisation, which makes such animals rare, and mostly hidden, which favorises traffics rather than protecting animals... well).

2) to have it sorted before potential fights arise between the males, even though they seem to get along for now, the 2Ls had settled dominance long ago and the 3rd one is too young yet, but all that will surely change.

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I still have some time to fix the problem considering that females never had heat before the 9th month down her familly tree (9-10 months also seems to be the usual age among gliders over here, I'm not sure where our lines come from, they also always seem smaller than their american counterpart).

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That is probably because they were separated to prevent breeding to early. Once a male is introduced it can kick the female into heat earlier than you think. I don't think what country they are in really makes that much difference to when they reach sexual maturity.

I would also think the males will start to show some posturing for dominance and primary mating rights now that they are altogether.

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That is probably because they were separated to prevent breeding to early.

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It's not likely considering the practice of the small community here (we don't have professionnal breeders, it's rather individuals who exchange their joeys to avoid inbreeding, they are almost always immediately put together in at least pairs and they never see any heat nor breeding patterns in the 1st 9 months... and neutering is really not commonly done either).

I don't know what makes their patterns so different here and the usa (I indeed doubt the country itself has something to do with the age they reach sexual maturity, but the different genetic pool, food, environmental conditions, partial domestication, the fact that we don't have breeding programs nor breeders for instance, nor mass selling... can make some differences), but regarding breeding, it seems to work totally differently.

Which doesn't make the issue less problematic on the long run, especially since i did not specially intend to have them raising joeys.
In the meantime, I'm going to monitor closely what happens in the cage and I'm ready to separate them again at the 1st sign of issues.

I am happy the new quad all gets along well but that could change in a heartbeat the first time your female does go into heat.

Since there are 3 males and 1 female, she will have a rough time when she is in heat - with ALL 3 of the males trying to mate with her. She could be injured by the older adult males if she is still very young when she goes into heat - which could be as young as 5 months OOP. The males could also seriously injure each other in an attempt to be the dominant MATING partner.

The fact that gliders are rare in your country means that there is an increased likelyhood that your gliders share COMMON ANCESTORS. All the gliders in your area come from a very small population of gliders initially brought into your country.

If you know other glider owners in your area that allow their gliders to breed - it would be good if EVERYONE producing joeys begins to keep careful records on the parents of each joey they produce and follow thorough keeping records through future generations of gliders. This would help future owners identify the common ancestors of future generations of gliders because they could obtain the lineage along with their joey purchase or trade.

As for your situation - you will have no way of knowing which male fathers any joeys your gliders do have which makes accurate record keeping on the joey's lineage impossible.

If you do not want your female to breed - I would at least separate her from the males until they have all been neutered. If you want to allow her to breed - she should be kept away from intact male gliders until she is at least 10 or 11 months OOP. Breeding female gliders before they are a year old can be detrimental to HER HEALTH because she is still growing and building her own strong bones. Nursing joeys before she is fully grown and mature will be a constant drain on her own calcium reserves and may lead to future weakness of her bone structure. She cannot grow strong AND support the nutritional needs of growing joeys in pouch at the same time.

If you choose to breed her - it would be safer for the joeys to place her with only ONE intact male. The other males might be a danger to the joeys.

I separated them again because it is going to be difficult to monitor them during the week.
However, they call each others desperately through cages and rooms all night long now, so I really got to find a vet soon :S

Candy, regarding the genetic pool, it's even more complicated than that, they cross borders... the 2Ls' parents come from belgium for the mother and germany for the father, and for the joeys their line originally comes from portugal (and to make a long story short, I wasnt supposed to get them permanentely, just to glidersitt them, but their humans decided that afterall they did not want them back). The annoying thing is that it's nearly impossible to track down the familly trees further than 3 or 4 generations.

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The annoying thing is that it's nearly impossible to track down the family trees further than 3 or 4 generations.

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That is good reason for owners to always keep good records so that gliders raised in the future will have good records on their lineage beginning now.