Something is wrong with my Suge, and I'm trying to figure out what to do.

When I got home this evening, I fed the gliders and Suge went to eat right away, like normal. I noticed that both his eyes looked wet, and weren't open all the way. They were open, but only like 1/2 way.

I took him out of the cage and fed him some mealworms and he was eating like normal. I took this opportunity to trim his back nails, as they were getting stuck in everything. While I was trimming one of his nails, I trimmed it too short, and his nail started to bleed. He is usually very grouchy about having his nails trimmed, hating having his feet touched, but seemed unphased by this. And this is the first time I've ever cut his nails too short. I immediately grabbed a cloth and stopped the bleeding, all while Suge nonchalantly chewed on mealies.

Afterwards he climbed up my shoulder, and as I was walking back to the cage he fell off of me. When I picked him up and placed him in the cage, he lost his footing (they're in a reptarium) and fell into a hanging toy. The toy had mealies in it, so after he got it together, he ate those, then climbed in the pouch and went to sleep.

My other glider, Ollie joined him, and I left them be for a bit. After about 45 minutes Ollie got up to eat, so I went to check on Suge. I ended up scooping him out of the pouch, and he remained curled up in my hand, which I've never done with him ever (I should mention he's 11 years old). He remained sleeping in my hands for a while, even as I stroked him and checked him out. I poked at him a bit, and he finally woke up, eyes still half-open, looked around a bit, then curled back up on me.

He's currently curled up on my belly, wrapped in the bottom of my fleece as I type this. I've grabbed at his feet a little bit, to see if it illicit any response, and he does pull his hand back into his little ball. Again, he hasn't fallen asleep on me since he was a baby.

This is super not normal behavior for Suge. Suge is a super light sleeper, and if I'm checking on the gliders in the pouch, he's always the open who shoots his head up first to look at what's happening.

I was already planning on taking him to the vet in the AM anyways because of his eyes, but now I'm really concerned that something more serious is wrong by the way that he's sleeping. And I don't know if it's a result of the fall(s) or related to his eyes?

So, I'm writing here to seek advice. I don't know if this is an emergency and should take him to a vet right now, or if I will be OK taking him first thing in the morning.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I'm having a mild freak out right now.

Hello,

*Did you do the tent test to see if he is properly hydrated? Lethargy and loss of balance can be symptoms of dehydration.

*Has there been any unusually cold spell in their room, in which case he could possibly have been in torpor?

*It could also be the symptoms and consequence of a respiratory infection (especially the wet eyes and the loss of balance and energy), but that is something only the vet will be able to diagnose.

In the meantime, if there hasnt been any unusually cold temperature, keep him warm and make sure he eats and stays hydrated.
If you suspect a possible torpor however, do not warm him up, raising the body temperature too fast when a glider is in -or getting out of- a torpor phase can cause organs failures.

I did the tent test. He is dehydrated. I filled up a bottle cap with water and he drank the entire thing quickly. I filled up a 2nd and he drank 3/4 of it, then peed, had diarrhea and curled back up in my arm.

Now that I've been able to look at him in daylight I can see that his skin also looks yellowish, as well.

I've separated my pair, and have been keeping a close eye on Suge in my lap. I have an appointment at 11:30am (the earliest I could get, sadly), so I'm trying to keep it together until then.

Sorry to hear, yellowish skin could possibly be a sign of liver distress, hope your vet will be able to help.

Hello, was there any news?
I'm sorry to hear about your baby and I really hope everything is okay... Please update us when you can

I just got home from the vet.

She did some xrays and was able to see that there was indeed something wrong with his liver. Due to his fragility, she was unable to take any blood, so she can't pinpoint and say what the exact issue is right now.

She also found some bruising on his chest, which she assumes was from his few falls last night.

She's now keeping him hospitalized for 48 hours to try and observe him and see if she can figure out what is wrong with him specifically. She's also going to pump him with fluids and antibiotics to see if that does anything to revive him.

I should be getting a call later on today with an update with how he's doing.

Send positive thoughts. <3

:(
On the bright side, the vet will be able to act immediately should his state change.
Hopefully, the fluids and antibiotics will have some effect, and improvement will allow to make a better diagnostic.

Keeping you in my prayers for the next 48 hours. I hope it turns out alright

Well, I originally go a call from the vet this morning at about 11am letting me know that Suge was doing pretty good. They took him off his IV, and he was eating and drinking no problem, and that it was looking like he could probably go home with me tomorrow.

Then tonight I got a call from the vet at about 9:30pm saying that Suge just started to rapidly decline in the past hour. Apparently he was doing well almost the entire day. He was even starting to climb around.

I went to the vet to go see him and then had him under a little oxygen tube. He was on his side with very shallow breathing. He wasn't even curled up in a ball like he was with me when he started to get ill.

They haven't been administering him any medication because he won't ingest anything and they don't want to force feed him anything for fear of aspiration. It really didn't seem like they were going to be doing anything for him at this point except keep him on oxygen and keep him heated.

After I left I thought of the IV to keep giving him fluids, so I called and left a message for the vet (who was apparently dealing with an emergency at that moment), but I also don't really know if that will do much at this point. The woman who is working the night shift tonight isn't the exotic vet - she's not back until Monday.

I brought Ollie with me to see Suge and he immediately climbed on him and buried his face in his stomach. When it was time for us to leave, he wouldn't let go of his leg. It was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen.

I'm at a loss of what to do at this point. It doesn't look good. :(

I am so sorry you're going through this. That is absolutely awful, I can't imagine how you're feeling right now. At least Suge is getting the best help he can right now, and hopefully it'll turn around and he will start feeling better soon.

I went into the vets this morning after she called me that he wasn't improving at all. When I saw Suge he was clearly suffering. I held him and Ollie together for a little while, but Suge was twitching and making a few strained yelps, especially when Ollie started to nuzzle him. I wanted to let him pass naturally in my hands, but it broke my heart to see him suffering like that so we made the decision to have him put down.

I'm pretty heartbroken.

Thank you everyone for responding and offering insight, help and kind words. It has meant a lot.

Now I'm trying to figure out what to do with Ollie. Fortunately, I have some time the next few days to spend a lot of time with him, but I'm more concerned when I go back to work and I don't have all the time in the world.

I think I would like to get another pair to keep him company. He has a very laid back personality and is still pretty active despite his age (he's the same age as Suge - 11). Will a young pair be too much for him? I would like to get Ollie new cage mates in a timely manner, but I also don't want to jump into anything prematurely.

Anyways, any advice on where I should go from here would be greatly appreciated.

I'm so sorry :( it's difficult to let them go, especially after so many years, but at least he is not suffering anymore.

There is indeed no need to rush decisions concerning finding new cagemates for Ollie, especially if you can spend time with him in the next days, I believe gliders also need time to grieve and it is doubtful he is ready to accept newcommers so soon, so giving him time to adjust might be a good idea.
Keep a close eye on him though, but finding new cagemates only becomes urgent if he starts showing signs of stress (such as overgrooming or stereotypical behavior).

As far as possible cagemates, I don't think the age has much importance, it's rather the gliders' individual personality which matters. It's never guaranteed though, I've been fortunate to always have gliders who practically introduced themselves to each others without a fuss, but I know some others have had issues. If you choose to get a pair (regardless of age), make sure to introduce them gradually, possibly one by one, and in a neutral place to avoid territorial issues, and be prepared in case the introduction doesnt work to have to keep them as 2 separate colonies.

From what I know, the only age concern is size... if they aren't full grown or if they're smaller than Ollie, he may attack them. Other than that, make sure any new male is neutered (preferably early, before the bald spot comes in, just in case). And I agree with the previous comment, make the introduction gradual and keep an eye on them as they get used to each other. Good luck

I'm terribly sorry for your loss.

Thanks everyone for your helpful insight and your kind words.

I've been in communication with a breeder, talking with her about my situation and she said that she has two pairs that would work well in my situation.

One pair is a girl who was born in Februrary and a boy who was born in October. The other pair is a boy born in May and a girl born in September (these two are brother and sister and already bonded).

She said she believes that both have temperaments that would work well in my situation, but suggested that I wait until they are a year OOP before I can properly introduce them to Ollie.

Do any of you have any opinions on this? I'm currently leaning on the pair with the girl born in February, because she is on the older side, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'm really sorry to be piggy backing on this message but I haven't figured out how start my own....

That being said somehow my 4 sugar gliders have managed to pull 2 equal packets into their cage and eat the contents... I know aspartame is bad for them but does anyone know if this is deadly? (my research only said it was bad for them but I'm still highly concered)I'm keeping a close eye on them tonight.... Anyone with experience or advice please message me or reply to this.... Thank you all so much in advance.

you sure they ate it?? did you check the tray to see if it just spilled?

Pretty sure they ate at least some of it.... I did see some in the tray (thankfully) including a 3rd packet I didn't even know about, the packets looked throughly licked and bit open... Thankfully everyone seems ok this morning... I'll keep a close eye on them for the next few days.

Symptoms to look for are abnormal behvavior and seizure.
If such occure, it is important to ensure that the glider does not injure himself during the crisis and stays hydrated.

The case of aspartam is complicated, we actually don't really know why it seems toxic to some gliders on the long run, we suppose it causes an excess of phenylalanine in the blood, which damages the myelin and white matter in the central nervous system.

It might be helpful to consult a vet (we do know how to treat crisis caused by phenylketonuria in humans, but I have no clue if there are any protocols for animals yet). A vet might suggest to reduce the protein intake for a few days in order to not add more phenylalanine in the system (but only a qualified vet can take such decision).

Thank you very much for the information... It's been hard finding information on this... This is the only time since I've owned them that they have been exposed to aspartame and I got them all young.. I'm always very careful to read labels on yogurt and anything I feed them. I will continue to watch them closely and consult their vet.

I'm glad they are doing ok this morning :)

Alaria Sage If you have some time, I'd love to go over some variables with you on how the packets got into the cage in the first place.

I prefer doing this in pm on facebook because the responses are faster and pictures are easier to upload. If your interested feel free to add me and send me a pm when you have an hour or so to answer questions.https://www.facebook.com/carla.sloan.1