Hi All,

I am new to the forum. About me. I have had a male glider named Raphael, he 3 years old. He is the only glider I have. Up until 6 weeks ago, we was happy, chirping and doing all the things a good glider does. Right before I left for vacation, I noticed at feeding time, he had bitten one of his nails off and was in the process of doing this to another nail. (one on the back left feet and the other on the front left). After seeking care for him at the vet, I came home from vacation and nothing was getting any better. I then took him to a vet that specialized in Exotics. He came to the conclusion this is self-mutilation. He was placed in an e-collar and I came home with Medicine. Over the next 6 weeks, he has been in the e-collar he has healed up. He did end up losing 2 nails. Here is the rub. I took him out of the e-collar. Within 20 seconds of being free, he went right back to his back paw and bloodied it up. I am stuck on this. He weighed 128 grams (Little Heavy) at the time of his injury. Since being in the e-collar he has lost all sorts of weight. I hand feed him every night and he is in my lap, between 9 and 11pm. If I keep him in the collar I fear for him. He isn't eating as he should, doesn't play as much and as I mentioned he lost all sorts of weight. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I keep the collar on, he will wither away. There is no quality of life. The weight loss will kill him. If I take it off, he will go back to chewing on his feet. Now after 3 visits back to the vet, the subject of putting him down is at the top of the list.

I can say this. He is well cared for, well fed and he has bonded to me and my son. I don't know of any stressor that has kicked this off. I cut his nails often. He has toys and things to do. After all the research I have done, I have to concur this is self-mutilation.

Can I be missing something? I don't want to put him down, but I feel like I may not have a choice.

Thanks,
DG

He may be bonded to you and your son, but Sugar Gliders are SUPER social group animals! They need to be with others of their kind. I've heard of some gliders who do "okay" as single gliders, but stories of self-mutilation from lone gliders are just as common. A human just can't provide the same social bond as another glider can, and toys, while important, aren't a replacement for a colony.

He needs a friend. Over time he's gone from being happy to being depressed/lonely and is at the point of self-mutilation. There are no guarantees that his health will return but I think it's worth trying to get him a friend, or find a home with gliders willing to take him in, before ending his life. It's possible he'll be okay once with other gliders and imop it's worth the chance to find out.

If you aren't ready to adopt another glider(s), see if you can rehome him. Someone who already has a glider, or a colony of gliders, might be willing to see if he can fit in as a last ditch effort. It might not work, but why not try first.

Side note, I'm sure that's been heartbreaking to deal with so I'm really sorry your lil' dude is in that bad place :(

I would try another vet first.

Our first vet was in beautiful office, large clean and so nice looking. the vet gave us some ok information but my wife was upset that alot of the paperwork they gave us looked like it was printed from an undesirable website.
For $10 they would cut the nails, so since we were new and still struggling with cutting nails we asked them to cut the nails, we could watch and learn. the vet and helper had NO idea what to do, they couldn't control the glider and couldn't get the nails cut, we started worrying they would cut the nails to short, so we asked them to stop, my wife and I could do a better job then that and we were bad at nail cutting.

we found a new vet, father and son with glider experienced, they seemed to have much better knowledge, and skills at just handling gliders. stuff like pulled out a fish tank, put our new unbonded glider in it and then could look over the glider threw the glass without getting bit.

I have not heard or seen this issue, most self mutilation I have heard is over grooming of fur not nails.

If I had no clear direction, I would ask the vet to do a stool check.
I would use a wet towel and just clean his feet, nothing else since bathing a glider is bad, but I would atleast clean off his feet the best I could. I would get him a clean new sleeping pouch and wipe down the cage bars with the water/vinegar mix my wife makes. Also consider in a day or two cleaning any toys and stuff inside his cage, dawn dish soap and water.

Call Bourbon (321-331-1608) she has extensive medical knowledge and one of two people with the most experience with self mutilating gliders, the other is
Cora Drake Holt.

There is a group on facebook specifically for self mutilating gliders as well that they both are in, but your better off to call her initially and tell her whats going on. She will likely build a team to help.


Priority one right now is to keep that e collar on him at all times.

***Gliders do NOT self mutilate because of being alone or depression. Adding another glider to an injured or sick glider is NOT wise. The injured/sick one is at a huge disadvantage and won't be able to protect itself especially in an e collar. Another glider will likely kill it.

Leela--oops, and good to know. Luckily it isn't something I've had experience with myself. So I'm glad to be set straight. I could have sworn I'd read a bunch about single gliders being stressed and starting to SM but I just did some more reading and anyways... I'll be more careful to research before responding in the future

no worries you probably did read it somewhere maybe even several sites saying the same thing. ( I once too thought the same thing from things I read )

It's a common misconception from misinformation that lingers around the internet then parroted by who ever happens to read it ( I did that too ).

The truth is gliders don't self mutilate unless there is an injury or they are sick. Even then minor wounds aren't considered self mutilating by people who have seen what self mutilating really looks like.

There are certain characteristics that need to be present for it to be "classified" (by the community ) as self mutilating.

The glider on this post showed One of them which is Going after the area after it was healed. The other signs weren't mentioned. but just because they weren't mentioned doesn't mean they were noticed or hasn't happened there is only so much info you can get from one post, which is why I suggested they call Bourbon who will ask a million questions and help as much as she can.

Thank you all, I appreciate the time. Calling Bourbon today. Will advise. Thanks again!

I wonder if SM isn't sometimes related to parasite infection. I know toxopasmosis affects the brains of rodents and even possibly humans

https://www.nature.com/news/parasite-makes-mice-lose-fear-of-cats-permanently-1.13777

https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/a-tiny-brain-parasite-seems-to-make-rodents-braver-and-it-likes-humans-too/

parasites are one of our theories because a couple of the self mutilating gliders did show improvement when certain meds were used together, one of them was an antiparasidic.

The thing is, it can be hard to convince a vet to use that treatment because they don't like to use certain medications without a diagnosis showing its needed. The gliders weren't "cured" but any improvements are a blessing for those gliders.

Update

Dave contacted Bourbon and she made a team to help Raphael as much as we can. We don't believe he is a self mutilator which is great news.

We feel Raphael may have injured his front and back foot, and is still experiencing some pain which caused him to go right for his foot when the e collar was removed. Dave was very quick to put it back on which prevented a lot more damage and was the best thing he could have done.

When gliders experience pain, especially in their feet and tails they will do their best to remove what hurts. This is normal behavior (not self mutilating) with injuries, these type of injuries can be addressed and the glider can make a full recovery which is what we are hoping for with Raphael.

The exact cause is not known yet but we are working with David to try to figure it out. Hopefully xrays will tell us a lot more so Raphael can eventually get out of the ecollar and live a long happy life with his awesome family.

Will update as we learn more.