Hello all, I have 3 sugar gliders! I'm not sure what to do with my youngest (for this I'm just going to abbreviate the names into "H,L,A" So a little bit of back story, 3 males all 3 are neutered.

I adopted L (who is 3 now) from a college student who didn't know what she was getting herself into.. Upon adopting him I noticed he wasn't as old as she was saying he was; I was thinking actually younger.. His scent gland was developing a very weird scab so within a few months when I thought the time for neutering would be good, I got him neutered, the vet told me that the gland was starting to form but it looked like it was starting to get clogged so it was good that I had come in. L had been on his own for 2 years, he seemed to enjoy being alone (now I know people say they do need partners and I did wait until I knew he could be the right temperament before trying to introduce a new glider in) no self harm, loved my attention. Bonding pouch dates and playtime constantly. We did everything together and he's still pretty skittish to this day but he's very friendly.

Before Adopting A (now a year old), I thought it would be a more wise decision to look at breeders in my area because I didn't want to end up having a situation again like L and having to re-rehabilitate another almost feral glider. Visited with a few different breeders and made a decision (this decision I regret a little bit) - A's breeder told me he was a little biter and an OOP joey, when I got A home L did not like this AT ALL even the cage side by side thing L just wanted NOTHING to do with A, eventually I united them. This is where my problems started.

Now here is where it starts (will include what I've done and what has lead up to these moments of me questioning myself)

L loved his playtime as usual, he loved playing with me one on one and I even included A in the playtime sessions so it was a together thing. A didn't like playing with me and L, he didn't want to play with L at all, he would bite (no crabbing) but he would just flat out bite to the point of drawing blood (I thought okay I'll try and do 1 on 1 playtime with A and see how that goes)

First I would take L out for some playtime, but started to notice, A would sit in the wheel, not go in the pouch and just sit in the wheel (Also a little note: I had to take L away from the cage for about 4 hours and A did NOT move from the wheel for the entire 4 hours), When I took both A and L out, A would still latch to the cage to the point he wouldn't even explore the room just try to get back into his cage and I just started to leave the door open so he could get back in and wouldn't be stressed. A did get back in and wouldn't enter the pouch until L was back in the cage.

I took to youtube for bonding answers and started to do the things it suggested (trust exercises, bonding pouch time, more handling) No, no and no nothing was working.

Bonding pouch time. For 2 years L loved to jump in his pouch and be on the go with me. This didn't sit well with A, by the time I got back, rather than sleeping or playing, He sat in the wheel and I could be gone up to 7 hours (carry food and have water for L whenever I'm gone for long periods of time and know L needs something to eat or drink) I'm told by family, A did not leave that wheel at all for the duration I was gone with L. I thought 'maybe this is some extreme stress or anxiety' thought maybe by his first year of being between me and L he would be okay. Wrong again... A just didn't stop and it was getting into extreme levels of I wasn't sure how to handle it so I thought maybe loneliness issues. So I pondered the idea of a third. (L and I could no longer go on outside home bonding sessions at all for a year)

Now enters H into the picture, I adopted him at 2.5 years old (was going for older so that maybe A would look at him as another bonding figure) H and L do have some issues but they've gotten over it for the most part, L takes what he wants as far as feeding time goes, H goes second and A goes last. So I assume that's the order they came up with. I started taking L out again. A did the same behaviour... So I started taking H out more often and leaving them two alone (L I think has a little jealousy at this so when me and H come back, L wants to crawl all over me for my attention every single time and I allow it because I was gone for a long time and I figured since he couldn't go with me the attention thing was justified on his end) H and L love my attention, A will sit off to the side in the wheel (which I've moved into different positions just to see if maybe it was in an area he was just trying to 'comfort zone' and no wherever that wheel moved, he followed it, I even thought maybe it was a crutch so I removed that wheel and put in a new one and no still same thing)

H, L, A and I will start to play, A will jump on the cage, same thing; doesn't want to be around me, and I do have another person who has tried to be social with him. He wants nothing to do with either of us.


tldr; I have a sugar glider that seems to have anxiety issues and separation anxiety from another that seems to put stress on me and that glider plus adding a new glider hasn't helped that glider get anymore comfortable. He doesn't want to play he just wants to be hide and aggressive..


Now comes the question people don't like to ask themselves.. I've questioned myself a lot on this one.. I'm no long time glider expert, I've owned 5 gliders in total (3 being the ones I have now) and 6 years prior owned 2 neutered males. I've never encountered this problem, I've asked breeders and they haven't been able to give me the clearest of answers just 'continue to bond' and as much as I've been trying over the year it's not seeming to work... I'm wondering if I'm just not the right home for him. I'm in my late 20's as well so my experience only goes so far.. I know people who have offered to take the glider that have up to 6+ gliders in their home and I'm wondering if that's what he needs, a full group of gliders.. As much as I don't want to give him up, I feel like I'm being selfish if I continue to put him and my other glider who I've had since he was little and now I can't even solo play with him without this glider having issues. I'm wondering if he's not the right fit for my home... Advice? I'm really thinking I'm not equip to handle him and he has more needs down inside that I'm not realizing.

Should I re home him? Should I continue to try

(the only issue with my continuing to try is my other glider does suffer because he cannot be handled solo without this glider loosing it and will not enjoy playtime with any of us)

Hello!

Sorry nobody has answered yet.

I always start off with I'm no expert here. I have 5 gliders since 2012. They're in two colonies (3&2). My gliders have a wide range of personalities.

Can I start with a couple questions?
How did you do the introductions? Do they all sleep together in the same pouch all the time? You mentioned feeding order...how many feeding stations do you have? Do they chase each other when feeding?

Can you tell me where your playtime is? How do you take them out of the cage?

I hope you'll forgive me, but I'm not clear what you're identifying as the main issue. Is it not wanting to play, being excluded by the other gliders, or not bonding with you? Or biting?

Before I get your answers, I'll take a stab at relating. I have one glider in my trio that came to me labeled as a biter. And he would bite if I picked him up. I realized after a while that if he didn't want to come out for play time, making him come out was probably stressing him even more, so I stopped. He often watches us play from his pouch, and sometimes he just stays in the pouch where I can't see him. Well, after I stopped forcing him out, after a long while- probably a few months- he decided to come out to play on his own. And now, five years later, he comes out to play every so often. He still doesn't want to be picked up, and he doesn't climb on me except very rarely. But I can clip his nails, ironically. And he seems very happy to me And I do think he loves me and is bonded in his own way.
My point is that all gliders have different personalities, so is it possible he's like mine? Maybe he just doesn't want to be held or picked up and is really scared even after all this time, but if you give him the space he needs, he may learn to trust and love you in his own way.

If he's showing signs of stress like over grooming or flips, then of course that's a different story. Or if the gliders are fighting, or if he isn't getting enough food.

Let us know. I hope someone here can help.

I introduced L and A and they took together just fine, crawled in the pouch and slept together after getting the scent of each other they quickly bonded. They all sleep together. L, A and H

To answer your question, since H is a little new L and H sometimes decide when the pecking order is.. A will not eat after L and H decide to eat.

Playtime is normally around 5pm (when it starts to get dark) I have a green light where I can see them and interact with them, it's a very very soft/dark light and they're all use to it, I give them about 3-4 hours of exploring and playtime. I take them out at least once a day but If I'm busy it could be every other day. A doesn't like playing at all..

A doesn't want to bond with me, interact with me at all, during playtime since I leave the cage open, just in case anyone wants to go back to sleep; A will ALWAYS run back into the cage *even if the door isn't open* he will sit on the cage and crawl around the cage, anytime during playtime. *he will bite me when I handle him or when my partner handles him* we've introduced my scent (for bonding) everyone has accepted it, except A. when A does go into the cage, he sits in the wheel waiting for L, he's okay with H but L is his best friend... and I cannot take L out anywhere because he will mope in the wheel, even with the company of H, he will NOT enter the pouch without L...

So far it does seem like he is grooming himself... when L isn't with him.. That's why I won't seperate L and A...

He just doesn't seem to be taking to me at all (I have found a lady with 6 gliders who has offered to take him who has a ton more experience) - After 1 year, he still doesn't want anything to do with us and seems like he might be grooming...

As far as eating goes, I'm pretty sure he's eating okay... but I'm not sure because we almost never see him. A is a Leu (pute white) and L is a somewhat Leu so it's hard to tell who's out and doing what sometimes. A doesn't like being held AT ALL...

I hope that answered some questions.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kferg

Hello!

Sorry nobody has answered yet.

I always start off with I'm no expert here. I have 5 gliders since 2012. They're in two colonies (3&2). My gliders have a wide range of personalities.

Can I start with a couple questions?
How did you do the introductions? Do they all sleep together in the same pouch all the time? You mentioned feeding order...how many feeding stations do you have? Do they chase each other when feeding?

Can you tell me where your playtime is? How do you take them out of the cage?

I hope you'll forgive me, but I'm not clear what you're identifying as the main issue. Is it not wanting to play, being excluded by the other gliders, or not bonding with you? Or biting?

Before I get your answers, I'll take a stab at relating. I have one glider in my trio that came to me labeled as a biter. And he would bite if I picked him up. I realized after a while that if he didn't want to come out for play time, making him come out was probably stressing him even more, so I stopped. He often watches us play from his pouch, and sometimes he just stays in the pouch where I can't see him. Well, after I stopped forcing him out, after a long while- probably a few months- he decided to come out to play on his own. And now, five years later, he comes out to play every so often. He still doesn't want to be picked up, and he doesn't climb on me except very rarely. But I can clip his nails, ironically. And he seems very happy to me And I do think he loves me and is bonded in his own way.
My point is that all gliders have different personalities, so is it possible he's like mine? Maybe he just doesn't want to be held or picked up and is really scared even after all this time, but if you give him the space he needs, he may learn to trust and love you in his own way.

If he's showing signs of stress like over grooming or flips, then of course that's a different story. Or if the gliders are fighting, or if he isn't getting enough food.

Let us know. I hope someone here can help.

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Thanks for the answers!
Some follow up questions:
Just to clarify...OVER grooming? As in he's starting to be bald where he shouldn't be?

Eating: have you weighed them? I like to weigh my gliders every so often to make sure they're staying healthy, and that would give you insight into whether he's getting the food he needs. You can get a kitchen scale at any target or Walmart for example.

So I'm sure I still don't understand all of your specifics. But sounds like the main issue is that he doesn't seem to be bonding with you, and you wonder if you should rehome him for that reason.

First I'd like to say that of course the decision is up to you. You asked for opinions here, and I'm willing to give you my opinion, but you don't have to do anything I say, of course.

If A is bonded with L so strongly that he waits in the wheel while he's gone, I wouldn't want to separate them. I would only take L out in the bonding pouch if A could go, too. Probably I wouldn't take any of them out without the others at this point unless it was a vet visit.

As for bonding with you, I do believe that if you give him space (like I did with my boy) he will learn to trust you. He may never want to be picked up or held. My Thor HATES being picked up and doesn't crawl on me. But I know he's bonded to me. I love him to pieces even though he doesn't want me to hold him. I love how he watches me from the cage while the other two play. I love how he sometimes crawls to the door and watches me, and I love how sometimes he'll be brave and come all the way out then run back in! That's his comfort zone. And yes, I can reach in the cage and pet him now. But it took a while- months after deciding I needed to leave him be. So try giving A the option to come out by leaving the door open, but don't make him. And if he ever decides to come out, let him explore without touching him. He'll probably run back into the cage on his own anyway. Continue to teach him your hands are safe by giving him treats when he's in the cage.

Now if he IS OVER grooming and/or showing other signs of stress, then trying to narrow down what is causing the stress is important. But personally, I wouldn't rehome him unless he was in danger of being injured.

I've been where you are with this question. Not the exact scenario with the glider staying in the wheel, though I have had a couple that prefer to be in the cage rather than on me.

It's certainly not an easy question to ask yourself and honestly no one can answer it for you but you.

Rather than typing it all out again I'm going to link you to my original post from when I went through it http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59162


As for your situation...
Personally I believe A is a guardian of the colony and he is just doing his job extremely well. His job is to watch over the cage and colony members. He won't relax until everyone has been returned to his protection, especially the one he is most attached to.

I believe there are some gliders that just don't want nor need to be on their human, but that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't bonded to you. His bond just may look and feel different to YOU than the bonds you have with the other two, which is actually normal because he's an individual.

I think leaving the cage open for him is great and clearly shows your not forcing things with him and you have HIS best interest at heart. That's a hard thing to do for some people.

You've given us all the reasons you think he'd be better off somewhere else, but what I think your missing is why he'd be just as better off WITH you so here's a couple to think about...

1 You already know his quirks and for the most part accept them.

2 He is bonded with the other 2 and probably you as well even if you don't feel it the same.

3 Whose to say his behavior will change somewhere else and they will accomadate him as you have

4 Being separated from his best buddy may cause him more stress than sitting in the wheel does

One thing I didn't see, and maybe I missed it... Do you take all 3 out in a bonding bag together? if so for how long, how does A act and what kind of bonding bag do you have?

On a side note I had to re read my original post after I dug it up to share with you.... it's been a while since I thought of asking myself that question and still to this day I cried when I read it and know in my heart she belongs here with me and how glad I am that she is still here.

Since that post I have lost her cage mates Amy and Simon. Nicky is still doing well and has received other gliders as cage mates and I think they have alllll benefited from her in one way or another. She is a mother hen to every glider she meets big or small, handicapped or non handicapped, young or old none of that matters to her.

Given the opportunity she will still bite so we just don't give her the opportunity to nail us lol. I still handle her differently than I do the others because she demands respect and returns it when it's given to her. But she is happy and happy here with us. In reflection of it all, Nicky progressed and I didn't recognize it at the time and it took someone else to make me see it and recognize Nicky's uniqueness once I did I could fully accept it and her and not be scared of her or feel like I'm holding her back.

After a while *had him for a year* I did notice him starting to loose his fur when L left, As far as weight goes; I haven't been able to get a weight because I don't have a scale for them. A won't eat without L, L will eat just fine, he honestly was raised for 2 years on his own, he enjoys the company and companionship but he doesn't mind any separation. A just won't do ANYTHING without L and I'm not sure why.

Now the person I've thought about re-homing him to has 6 sugar gliders in her home. L doesn't mind if A is not around L and H get along just fine, however A will not bond with H for some reason.

But yes to answer that question I did start to notice he was over-grooming whenever L wasn't around so I stopped all together in taking L out. I did take A and L out together (before I got H) and A didn't like that AT ALL... L loves to go out with me and anytime he hears my keys or me getting up he'll run to the cage because that's always when I've gone out with him, But I can't take him with me because of A being at risk.

A did stop over-grooming when I left L in the cage with him and didn't mess with him at all.

My general issue is.. A just seems like he needs more than I can give him.. but I did want opinions if this is the correct assumption I'm making given the situation.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kferg

Thanks for the answers!
Some follow up questions:
Just to clarify...OVER grooming? As in he's starting to be bald where he shouldn't be?

Eating: have you weighed them? I like to weigh my gliders every so often to make sure they're staying healthy, and that would give you insight into whether he's getting the food he needs. You can get a kitchen scale at any target or Walmart for example.

So I'm sure I still don't understand all of your specifics. But sounds like the main issue is that he doesn't seem to be bonding with you, and you wonder if you should rehome him for that reason.

First I'd like to say that of course the decision is up to you. You asked for opinions here, and I'm willing to give you my opinion, but you don't have to do anything I say, of course.

If A is bonded with L so strongly that he waits in the wheel while he's gone, I wouldn't want to separate them. I would only take L out in the bonding pouch if A could go, too. Probably I wouldn't take any of them out without the others at this point unless it was a vet visit.

As for bonding with you, I do believe that if you give him space (like I did with my boy) he will learn to trust you. He may never want to be picked up or held. My Thor HATES being picked up and doesn't crawl on me. But I know he's bonded to me. I love him to pieces even though he doesn't want me to hold him. I love how he watches me from the cage while the other two play. I love how he sometimes crawls to the door and watches me, and I love how sometimes he'll be brave and come all the way out then run back in! That's his comfort zone. And yes, I can reach in the cage and pet him now. But it took a while- months after deciding I needed to leave him be. So try giving A the option to come out by leaving the door open, but don't make him. And if he ever decides to come out, let him explore without touching him. He'll probably run back into the cage on his own anyway. Continue to teach him your hands are safe by giving him treats when he's in the cage.

Now if he IS OVER grooming and/or showing other signs of stress, then trying to narrow down what is causing the stress is important. But personally, I wouldn't rehome him unless he was in danger of being injured.

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I know a year seems long, but Thor still has break throughs even now, six years later. Just yesterday I held him in my hands for just a moment and he didn't freak lol.

I agree with leela's post as well.

In the end it's your decision. No judgement here.

This sounds like a tough situation and you are the only one that can decide what is best since they are yours. One of my 18 mths twins is still reluctant to come out if I don't do tent time for a few days. He eventually comes out then I can't get him back in. It's usually when I stop paying extra attention to him LOL. He has been hard to bond with but as soon as he's scared he is stuck to me (I am his mom and security). His brother has never bitten and crabbed hardly and he jumps on me as soon as the cage is open but goes right back in after about 10 min. He loves his cage even when everyone else is out playing he is inside. I also have a 4 mths old male who bonded to me when I saw him at the breeders 5 wks OOP. I brought him home at 10 wks and he would stay with me 24/7 if I let him and barks at me when I put him in. Out of the 5 girls only 2 I can pick up, 2 never come out of pouch, and 1 is nipping playfully all of the time (it's quite annoying).

They are all so different and if you or H aren't feeling it then maybe the best thing would be to give him up. Just know that they need their buddies for emotional support more than their humans so he is probably doing fine in his colony. It's also best to try and stop yourself from giving them human emotions LOL. Everything is probably normal in their world and the conflict may be bothering you more than them. After all, they settle their own issues in the wild (and prob in a lot of domestic colonies).