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Biting article
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May 27 2007
07:39:22 PM
Well here it is a month later and nobody from .net or any community for that matter has offered up an alternate article for biting.

So I updated mine.

http://www.gliderpedia.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?Biting

Thoughts anyone?

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May 28 2007
06:07:05 PM
Baby LOve Gliders Joey GliderMap VA, USA 17 Posts
Your kidding me...After all that...NO ONE submitted not even 1 article???


That is madness...I would have given you mine, but there were so many others that were doing it...I did not want you to get flooded with the same info!! Plus I was told I have not been around long enough!

Edited by - Baby LOve Gliders on May 29 2007 07:53:08 AM
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May 28 2007
06:41:56 PM
Baby LOve Gliders Joey GliderMap VA, USA 17 Posts
I just posted on GC and asked...I am really hoping it is still in the works or was lost or something!

I'll let you know!
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May 28 2007
06:50:55 PM
SugarMommaRamirez Starting Member 2 Posts
That is the most horribly cruel recommendation... I can just see a lot of yound glider owners accidentally breaking jaws and teeth because they figure they read this on SugarGlider.com and that makes it okay.

How are they supposed to interpret "grabbing ... very hard"? Oh it makes me cringe...
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May 28 2007
07:28:05 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
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May 29 2007
09:49:17 AM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
Quote: Plus I was told I have not been around long enough!

First of all I believe the point of the gliderpedia is to share info. Even though personally I think the term gliderpedia just gives it a sense of "authority".

Just because you're new does not mean you don't have the smarts to research techniques and report sources, etc. which is what they're looking for in general. It would be nice to even consult those who have recent efforts and success with biters. You can check with Dancing, Bourban and Shelleriddle. I believe that is the name of the latter. Though to contact the first two you will have to go elsewhere as they are banned from here. Good luck.
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May 29 2007
10:18:18 AM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
You know - I don't care if this offends anyone or not. No one seemed to care about offending Kazko when they were bashing him all over the place. Kazko is a very caring person and would NEVER intentionally do anything that would harm ANY animal. What is being said hurts not only him - but those of us who care about him.

Kazko has done what he said he would do - no one else has.

SO - either write the article or shut up about it. (and I hate the words "shut-up") The drama over this is really getting old.

And for those of you who go from forum to form posting things like this - I have only one question. What is your purpose?

BabyLoveGliders - I am not addressing this to you. You were doing a simple follow-up that turned into something you didn't anticipate.

Edited by - Rita on May 29 2007 11:28:14 AM
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May 29 2007
11:38:29 AM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts

Quote: And for those of you who go from forum to form posting things like this - I have only one question. What is your purpose?


Your definition of bashing does not seem to fit the discussion and legit concerns many people in the community are expressing. Sorry if the concern is DIRECTLY related to an administrator's ethical responsibility to consider the newbies reading it or the extremest or the teens or the children who post here. The only one letting personal feelings get in this Rita is unfortunately you. I'm sorry but the bashing seems to be coming from you. What are YOUR intentions of defending an agressive means article anyway? You have not really stated your opinion on the real issue being addressed. This is NOT something personal Rita as YOU are making it. You need to step back and look at the info being discussed and only argued by you. So sorry if it offends you but the author has had plenty of time and concerns stated by many of the glider community to reconsider and has chosen not to. The continued pursuance of the article is what prompted concerns AGAIN AND IT DIDN'T START WITH ME BUT I AM VERY concerned about the newbies I see constantly attracted to this site. I have been up late hours directing many newbies with medical concerns/emergencies so don't accuse of false intentions. They need to be a priority at all times by the owner, administrator, mods, senior members, and community in general. Please TELL us the reason you are defending this article. You seem to have a lot of insight. You tell us what the intentions are? I don't want to confuse others of what you said at GC so why don't you post it since this is being discussed here in public instead of pm's? Thank you.

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May 29 2007
01:16:04 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
I have never said I am defending the article. My thoughts on it are just that - MY thoughts. No one else's business but mine. I am defending a person that I consider my friend. A person who I know loves all his animals as much as any of us do. I am ashamed that I didn't speak up for him when this all started a month ago.

And - even if I were to defend the article, am I not entitled to my opinion like everyone else?? It appears that there are people out there who are not really reading what I wrote.

All I am saying is that there was such drama regarding this article on the original threads- so many people up in arms. So many people were going to do something about it by writing their own articles. What happened? Why didn't they write as they said they would? Now - here it is a month later.... There are new people, both here and on GC that are starting the "OMG"S" and "HOW HORRIBLE" posts again. We have been there and done that - there is no need to do it again since a solution has been presented.

If someone takes what I am saying as offensive then so be it. I said on GC that I will not post there again regarding this subject as I have made my feelings known. No need to repeat. I have not posted anything in a PM that I haven't stated either here or on GC. There has only been one person who I have PM'd regarding this matter. I have nothing to hide. Here is a copy of my PM's for all the glider community to see - not that it's anyone's business: (these PM's were posted on GC)

quote:
Thank you, XXXXXX. (name removed for privacy) I don't get upset by much and try to stay out of the drama - but Kazko is really a very nice person and he would NEVER do anything that would intentionally hurt any glider. He has a very big heart. To see him bashed like he was is more than I can take. I am ashamed that I didn't speak up for him when this all started over a month ago.

I do understand what you were saying here today - that it is a follow-up. No one has written a thing yet. I just wanted to make a point that the bashing isn't necessary.

I am really not a psycho - but we all know where this article went the last time and it wasn't pretty...
_________________________
Rita


And to make things clear - by "article" - I meant the threads posted on the forums. I dont want my words to be misconstrued.

And - here is my response to a PM that I received - I will NOT post the other person's PM - as it is just that - a PRIVATE MESSAGE.

quote:
I sent you my PM before I read this one. I just returned to Glider Chat and saw you were there. Now you understand my anger! Thank you for that! Yes - Lots of drama - no action. It really gets old, doesn't it?


The solution to this whole mess is very simple. All someone has to do is write an article with the opposing view as Kazko requested. What is so offensive about me pointing this out? It is a FACT. Stating again - Someone should write an article with an opposing point of view.

That someone could be you, Mel. You obviously have strong feelings regarding this article.
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May 29 2007
01:19:28 PM
Ahsaehr Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ahsaehr's Photo Album Ahsaehr's Journal USA 3478 Posts
Also as said in chat by another person and I agree...Kazko..you might want to reword things you kind of worded them harsh.
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May 29 2007
01:48:39 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
Reread the sentence please.
I don't want to confuse others of what you said at GC so why don't you post it since this is being discussed here in public instead of pm's? Thank you.

I do NOT mean for you to post your pm's! They are PRIVATE messages where they BELONG. That is my point to use pm's for PERSONAL problems. I meant copy your posts from GC so others weren't confused to the problem here since you CHOOSE TO make it public. (The thread is up.)

Just another misunderstanding.


Rita, I would have PREFERRED to say this in a pm BUT in order to NOW explain publicly since you are addressing it publicly....please understand no insult meant....BUT I will NOT be the one to write the article. I happen to be a person who REALLY puts time and committment into something I commit to do. I can not afford to repeat that AGAIN. I was asked once to compose something about diets. I went to great legnths to consider what to write. I did it and PMed it to RESPECTFULLY get feeed bachk BEFORE submitting it ONLY for it to be ignorred. On another occasion I was asked to address concerns and suggestions about the site which I did and was BRIEFLY addressed in one tiny portion of it. This IS why I don't contribute to the Gliderpedia.

However, I do believe this should be addressed just as MANY have stated. Since YOU are so personally concerned then YOU should do it. You might be able to satisfy ALL concerned.
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May 29 2007
01:51:41 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
I think I need to offer another point of view. Please read this with NO ONE PARTICULAR in mind.

We should not take up for friends just because there is a legit concern being DISCUSSED.

THAT IS THE SAME REASON MANY posts were deleted in the past particularly with diet issues.
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May 29 2007
02:05:34 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
For those of you who havent read this thread from Glider Central - Here it is in it's entirety. It is titled: "The infamous "Biting article"


http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/300607/page/0/fpart/1


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May 29 2007
03:00:26 PM
Baby LOve Gliders Joey GliderMap VA, USA 17 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by mel

Quote: Plus I was told I have not been around long enough!

First of all I believe the point of the gliderpedia is to share info. Even though personally I think the term gliderpedia just gives it a sense of "authority".

Just because you're new does not mean you don't have the smarts to research techniques and report sources, etc. which is what they're looking for in general. It would be nice to even consult those who have recent efforts and success with biters. You can check with Dancing, Bourban and Shelleriddle. I believe that is the name of the latter. Though to contact the first two you will have to go elsewhere as they are banned from here. Good luck.


Actually Mel, those were the names of who I was told would write it...I was not offended when the comment was said to me regarding how long I've been a memeber....I understood completely, however if I had known it would not be written at all I would have,that kind of research does take a long time to compile correctly, so I'm hoping it is still in the works somewhere, I just have not be able to find out who... and yes I know some are banned...but they can still email it or give to someone that is not banned to give it to Kazko...
[/quote]
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Jun 05 2007
04:51:56 PM
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kazko's Photo Album kazko's Journal TX, USA 6752 Posts
Almost nobody is banned from this site. That is an illegitimate concern. Bourbon was even asked directly if she would like to contribute and she declined.

I dont recall Mel ever submitting anything for the Gliderpedia about Diet. Either I am daft or this is incorrect.

Sugarglider.com does not delete posts. However, many many users do, unfortunately. I have an entire thread of records demonstrating how Bourbon, as an example, would offer up terrible stuff as usual, then edit it later, then finally delete it. It has been my mindset to restore original posts like this in order to keep threads intact but Eric has resisted and has accepted broken threads and the lack of historical data. Many people have stuck their own foot in their mouths here and then gone back to edit or remove the post.

I personally hate the capability to edit or delete a posting. It totally ruins it. You can shake the cage and rile everyone up and then change your post to something really nice and everybody else looks like a fool. Bourbon was excellent at this for a short time here, as an example.

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Jun 05 2007
05:00:02 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
kazko, I read your article.

I can see, based on the topic and the nature of it, that it is only natural that your instructions would conjure some pretty scared and opposing positions.

I know this post was pretty empassioned, but I am going to try to bg=ring it back on topic, based on a method my wife and I have used that you all may find useful. In fact if any of you try this and can repeat the success we have had, it may be useful engough to share with a wider audience.

Certainly, it stands to reason that mimicking the behaviors of the gliders would be a good path to follow. And the use of positive reinforcement "after" is also a good idea. So I am in agreement with that premise, if not the specific execution you suggest.

The method you describe seems a bit difficult to execute on properly; however, and more importantly, I am afraid that "practicing" it - to get it right - may result in injury to the animal if practiced by either the more skittish or brutish of us.

We, too had had a really bad (female) biter who would routinely break our skin and make us bleed almost every day. We were heartbroken because we really love her and did not like the idea of simply limiting interaction with her. But we experiemnted and finally found an alternative to supress the biting...

Notice that when gliders bite, they have a tendency to "dig in" and put their mouths "on point." Anyone who has seen video of them tree-sapping or anyone who has been the victim of agressive head grooming will notice this. In an outright defensive bite, they also have a tendency to bear down at an initial angle.

They need considerable leverage to do this and they get the most purchase in the bite if their heads are at leasst initially partailly perpendicular to your skin surface (or of course if they are grabbing at a finger end or skin between fingers). Consider how a can opener is leveraged against a surface it is being used to open - it's kind of like that.

Here is the method:

Keeping his/her head flat against your outstretched hand, palm-up (with your palm drawn very taught), with the glider's chin and neck facing and touching the palm AND with another hand on top to "cup" them firmly in your hands. We have found this to be the first step in a workable solution.

Initially, you may have to "roll" them very gently in your closed palm to get them in to the right position, but I can tell you that once you have them soldily "cupped" it's a lot harder for them to bite.

In fact, they have a tendency to crab less and less as you tighten your hold on them, becuase it simlulates squeezing in to a pouch an guess what - they like that.

And if they try to bite your palm, it is a lot less painful than a glider getting purchase on the tip of a finger or the soft skin between fingers. It's also harder for them to actually bite in that position - espcically to bite your (stretched-taught) palm.

Yes, it is hard to keep your palm stretched taught and if you loosen up, she may get purchase on the bunched skin of your palm. So you may want to exercise by stretching your palm and relaxing, etc. before attempting this.

The second part is to be patient in waiting for the inevitable crabbing to wind down. We have found that soft cooing or singing during this period can be soothing to the animal.

The third part is when the crabbing subsides, slowly raise up a finger - the one closest to the front of the suggies' head on your down-pointing hand, and offer a yougurt drop. Of course, having another person offer the drop is the way to go since your hands are full, but you can first purse a drop in your lips and let it drop from your lips into the crack you make by lifting the finger if you are doing this alone.

But the only thing you are bending up and out of the way is one finger. More than that and she'll wiggle out and you have to start over.

With regards the mimicking of natural behavior, I believe this is a good thing and the firm cupping of the hands simulates a pouch and the (very gentle) rolling simulates how mothers stuff new joeys into the pouch (our Barbie does this with her partially OOP babies). And they know how to flatten out pretty well.

I know this method has worked for us and we don't feel like it is in any way cruel or extreme or hard to do.

Regarding the positive reinforcement, I think that is a great suggestion. In our method, this is accomplished with the cooing and the offering of the yogurt drop.

At any rate, from a practical standpoint, when we tried this method, we continued to take bites for a few months but with less frequency. She is over it now and we are so glad we stuck with her instead of just labeling her a "biter" and limiting our interaction with her.

Oh, one more thing. Timing is everything. Every time she lunges and bites, you have to do this. If she does it more than three times in a row, after three of these in the same session, just put her in the cage and let her sit. And give eyourself a break.

I hope this was a good share.
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Jun 05 2007
08:33:35 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
Quote: I dont recall Mel ever submitting anything for the Gliderpedia about Diet. Either I am daft or this is incorrect

Why am I not being personally addressed in a pm? I do NOT understand WHY this is being brought up now some time later.But here we go publicly again.

Please reread my post.
Quote:Rita, I would have PREFERRED to say this in a pm BUT in order to NOW explain publicly since you are addressing it publicly....please understand no insult meant....BUT I will NOT be the one to write the article. I happen to be a person who REALLY puts time and committment into something I commit to do. I can not afford to repeat that AGAIN. I was asked once to compose something about diets. I went to great legnths to consider what to write. I did it and PMed it to RESPECTFULLY get feeed back BEFORE submitting it ONLY for it to be ignorred. On another occasion I was asked to address concerns and suggestions about the site which I did and was BRIEFLY addressed in one tiny portion of it. This IS why I don't contribute to the Gliderpedia.

The first request about diets was by you Kazko. The other about the site was by Eric. I will check my pm's but I did notice one of you deleted a number of the pm's primarily between Eric and myself. Maybe it is still there OR maybe I kept a copy of it in my personal computer files. I will have to see.
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Jun 05 2007
10:20:26 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7375&SearchTerms=diet

This is the thread that started the request by you for me to write something for the gliderpedia and submit to YOU. I respectfully sent the ROUGH DRAFT to you and Eric for review and input. After all YOU said to send it to you as per your post within this thread. Within that rough draft/PM was room for others to suggest areas of concern to address. It was NEVER responded to.

Now at present it would do NO good as Eric has recently been specific about HOW the diet articles in this portion of the gliderpedia must be submitted. So while it should be easy for you to see this pm sent to you as you and I have rarely communicated and it was early March PLEASE DISREGARD the info in that pm now. I do not want to be involved in the diet controversy.

As far as deleting posts or threads. I know nothing of your examples with Bourban BUT I did delete some of my OWN RESEARCH because of an immature anger on my part which I should not go into. I do KNOW when to acknowledge and apologize. Sooooo....if you so incline you may put that info back. I think you will find it was NOT deleted because I put my "foot in my mouth." Hehehe, but perhaps you were not hinting to me.
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Jun 05 2007
10:32:18 PM
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kazko's Photo Album kazko's Journal TX, USA 6752 Posts
You noticed that one of us deleted your PM's? I dont understand this statement? Are you saying that the operators here are going through your stuff and selectively removing things we want to remove perhaps in some attempt to subvert you? This is the kind of crap that Bourbon always retorted with. When you throw around crap like that, people start to believe it.

I cant vouch for what happens between the world and Eric, but I can say that neither of us are probably able to reply to everything these days. If you were waiting for a "kudos" or something, I say dont wait anymore and post a forum thread. The Gliderpedia isnt going to grow on its own. Post it in the Gliderpedia discussion forum if you want opinions or suggestions, that is what it is for.

If you have concerns about the site, post it in the forum or the pedia discussion. If you want the Biter article removed, send in a really good replacement. Most all we ever get in here is opinions and zero action.

You dont need my blessing to do anything. I dont delete posts. Ask the community that lives here if you want input. Come into chat some time. Make it happen.

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Jun 06 2007
12:37:48 AM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
Quote:You noticed that one of us deleted your PM's? I dont understand this statement? Are you saying that the operators here are going through your stuff and selectively removing things we want to remove perhaps in some attempt to subvert you? This is the kind of crap that Bourbon always retorted with. When you throw around crap like that, people start to believe it.

Hmmm...this is interesting. Since I have nothing to do with Bourban nor do I know of her retorts. I AM ONLY responding to the comments you made referring to me in your post above. If I am addressed in a pm I will answer in a pm. If I am addressed publicly I will answer publicly. I am telling the truth. What are YOU saying to me? I'm lying? Otherwise I don't understand your statement.

Quote:I cant vouch for what happens between the world and Eric, but I can say that neither of us are probably able to reply to everything these days. If you were waiting for a "kudos" or something, I say dont wait anymore and post a forum thread. The Gliderpedia isnt going to grow on its own. Post it in the Gliderpedia discussion forum if you want opinions or suggestions, that is what it is for.

Posted - Mar 03 2007 : 09:55:21 AMkazko Administrator TX, USA 1281 Posts


Mel, would you please write an article about diet using the passion that you have and send it to me. The pedia information is old right now and all of us here will begin to updated it. The joy of the WIKI is that we can all contribute and grow it and keep it current and correct. As it is now, it needs a heck of a lot of attention, from all of us.

I did as YOU instructed.

Quote: If you have concerns about the site, post it in the forum or the pedia discussion. If you want the Biter article removed, send in a really good replacement. Most all we ever get in here is opinions and zero action. You dont need my blessing to do anything. I dont delete posts.

I took action. I followed the instructions of the request made by you which I thought was the respectful thing to do. I don't desire "kudos."

Quote: Ask the community that lives here if you want input. Come into chat some time. Make it happen.

There was room for community input in the rough draft I sent. I had already taken in some of the community concerns. For ex: dental concerns, etc. This just isn't going to happen with me after all the recent accusations. Perhaps I will join in on some other areas.

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Jun 06 2007
01:27:19 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Guys, did my post of yesterday make sense to anyone (above)? I was trying to address the topic of Biting, but I don't see any feedback on it but instead a different conversation. Should I create a separate post on this biting topic? Not sure what to do to get feedback on the topic....
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Jun 06 2007
04:06:18 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
I think it is great you are considering the topic. Sorry, hopefully we are done. I will try to read it again in a bit and see if I can comment.
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Jun 06 2007
04:13:03 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
I noticed when you first log on to the main page, the first thing I notice is the Latest Forum Questions. If this could somehow include the latest posts from any forum then people might notice the discussion here. I think most will go directly to the classifieds or the gossip section and may overlook this section.
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Jun 06 2007
05:49:16 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
thanks mel and I like your idea about the "latest" posts too.
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Jun 06 2007
07:07:55 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Ed - Why don't you post this article in the Gliderpedia?
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Jun 06 2007
09:18:11 PM
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kazko's Photo Album kazko's Journal TX, USA 6752 Posts
I think it is by design that this forum is not super easy to find. We probably arent looking for opinions from 14 year olds, just those who care and can offer something.
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Jun 07 2007
11:25:18 AM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Rita, thank you for the encouragement. If you are referring to the anti-biting method we use, I would like to post it, but I wanted to vet it here first and get feedback and suggestions before I do. I think the method is OK and it has worked for us, but think it needs peer review. Any comments are welcome
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Jun 07 2007
01:40:29 PM
mel Goofy Gorillatoes Visit mel's Photo Album mel's Journal TX, USA 2464 Posts
I read it over I just don't think I can offer constructive criticism here. The only thing I can think of is when sharing these techniques is what do people consider biters and when do you use the technique? Also who should use these techniques. I mean is it recommended for the child/teen to use judgement and administer the technique or should the child be cautioned to have an adult assist? I mean all gliders bite for one reason or another. I think people should consider WHY the glider is biting too. I allow my gliders enough space to be who they are. If they bite me it is usually because they miss the mealie in my hand or because they are warning me to let go because they don't feel like being messed with or just to see if there is a mealie being offered. I am quite convinced their sight has limitations for one reason or the other.

Edited by - mel on Jun 07 2007 01:42:02 PM
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Jun 07 2007
03:28:44 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Mel that's a really good couple of points and that's why I wanted to vet it here before pushing it out there. Certainly if we really knew why a glider was biting that would help us to know what to do (or as you point out, what NOT to do). The only reason we tried this method was we were always coached that you have to handle them a lot to bond with them. That is "don't let them become pouch spoiled." We also heard a lot of people say "take the bite."

So when you put those things together - that is: 1) handle them; and 2) take the bite, you come to a quick conclusion that you should learn how to deal with getting bitten...

Your other point about WHO is really important. I kind of alluded to that in my earlier reply on this topic when I spoke about the more skittish or brutish of us. I was referring to mostly kids who would either freak out and throw or squeeze a glider - not knowing their own strength - and cause damage.

So it may be "dangerous" for us to advocate a way to suppress biting with these methods if not andmistered by someone mature enough to undersantd it and administer it properly. Maybe just leaving them alone is the right thing to do? anyone else have ideas here?
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Jun 07 2007
05:19:51 PM
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kazko's Photo Album kazko's Journal TX, USA 6752 Posts
I am starting to think that leaving them alone is a good approach. I have found that a certain mentality of sugars that I come across often here in Texas just cannot be changed. It cant. Any attempts using holding or treating or patience or anything just cannot fix the behavior to make them a better human interacting pocket pet. When I get rescues in that are mean, I cant help myself but to give them attention and try to break them of the mean. It is far too stressful to me and I think I will simply stop. If I get rescues in I think I wont even be handling them anymore.

My thoughts are now that a person should keep a single large cage, single family of sugars and thats it. Multiple cages is too much work, too much stress, too much feeding. When you have multiple cages, others suffer from not having your attention, unless you are jobless and have lots of free time...

I have a very nice and super tame home bred family of 5 here and then I got everyone neutered. I now wish I had let them have one more litter before I stopped it so that the cage could be 6 or 7. I also have a cage of rescues that I probably need to give up for my own sense of mind. It sure is hard not to get attached to some of them though.

As far as biting, I am sure that there is no single solution. Ive tried gloves and biting to tire, Ive tried kindness and treats, Ive tried over handling, Ive tried hold and behavior modification, Ive tried "biting back"... Some things work with some animals and no things work with others. I havent done it enough successfully to say who will respond to what. I dont think anyone could say that.

It is probably best to tell people to take their pitbull biters in to the vet for euthanasia unless they are patient enough to keep a cage of biters and not handle them.
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Jun 08 2007
02:20:40 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
yeah, maybe leaving them alone is good. But I'm like you Kazko, my heart goes out to them and I keep trying. I have multiple cages and I just stay up late so I can make the rounds and give them all attention. I also let them swarm me out of the cage and take turns but I know that's not an option for everyone. Biters seem to bite less when out of the cage...
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