Hi everyone. Dietary questions as my wife and I are disagreeing on how to feed our gliders, and they seem to have a loose stool today all of a sudden.

I have been scouring these forums since we got them, 07/23/2015, and came to the conclusion immediately that the HPW diet was the way to go. Bought HPW, got some bee pollen, followed the recipe, was putting it over small pieces of apple, papya, pineapple, blueberry, and blackberry with the HPW mixture on the top. Now and then I put a little tiny amount of calcium powder on top of it all... maybe like less than once per week. They were doing real good, however for the last couple of weeks it seems they are eating next to nothing. They love the HPW mixture, but they're not touching the fruit. Today I noticed that there appears to be some loose stool droppings in the bottom of the cage. The wife wants to give has seen the sugar glider vet videos online and thinks that maybe we should be going with the pellets they're recommending. I've seen the things you guys have posted on here about them and have told her that, however she's likening it to more " the HPW diet is similar to feeding the dog a prepared meal every night" and that they may be more likely to understand the dietary needs of sugar gliders better than a bunch of opinionated people on the internet.

I believe they were about 12 weeks old when we got them 07/23/2015 and they have appeared to be just fine up until now. They sleep a lot but we figure it's nocturnal mixed with babies sleep a lot. We generally let them sleep and take them out super late at night, and I take them out in the morning about 7ish. They're super energized in the mornings it seems.

I'm sure there will be specific questions to our situation.

Questions summed up quickly: How can we get them eating like they use to, and not have loose stools?

Are you feeding any vegetables? Normally for the HPW diet it is 1 tbsp mixed fruits and 1 tbsp mixed veg per glider. They might just be bored of the current fruits -- feel free to offer more variety there. Make sure you're feeding the proper amount too: 2 tsp HPW mix per glider. If you feed too much, they might get picky and fill up on the staple, leaving their fruit and veg.

You can also offer some canned plain pumpkin, which will help firm up loose stool.

Also -- which HPW are you feeding? Is it the one you mix with the wombaroo high protein supplement or the exotic nutrition "HPW"? If it's the mix with wombaroo that is a healthy diet -- and much healthier than pellets. Pellets are part of a marketing bonanza that truly doesn't have anything to do with the health of sugar gliders. However, their videos can be convincing to new owners.

Sugar gliders are sap suckers: hard pellets are hard for them to get their nutrition from.

As for the appetite and loose stools -- have they been in to the vet for a wellness check since you got them? If not, a vet check with a fecal test might be a good idea. Loose stool can sometimes be indicative of parasites, and these can lay dormant in a gliders system undetected for quite some time before they are triggered.

Otherwise, sometimes gliders will have days when they don't eat as much. Moon cycles, weather changes, heat cycles or even air pressure changes can make them eat less. Don't worry too much about that on its own, as you'll find fluctuations in appetites occurs.

Forgot to link this on the last post. Been using this as a guide on what kinds of produce to feed them.

www.dropbox.com/s/okr0e8k6lhee2mk/FruitVegLIST2011.pdf?dl=0

Here are pictures of the package I got for the HPW
www.dropbox.com/s/6ta76i512xqxzjn/IMG_20150901_222738.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/quaj5ki7n6747o0/IMG_20150901_222808.jpg?dl=0

We have been been mixing green beans and carrots in small pieces, but they don't seem to eat them, haven't tried any other veggies. The way I understand it, corn is bad.

Have not been to the vet. Trying to avoid for expense purposes, however as a responsible animal owner I will take them there as I have to take my dog often. I'm a college student, and my wife is looking for work.

They seemed like they were fine... maybe I'm not processing time correctly... maybe they haven't been eating correctly for about 1-1.5 weeks.

Topics that keep coming up... are we giving them complicated diets for being babies? I was under the impression that we should be feeding them produce right away, and they seemed to be good with it. They still currently seem energetic, however I feel due to the lack of eating and the loose stool that I'm doing something incorrect.

I can most certainly get some canned pumpkin tomorrow. Is there something I should look out for, like 100% pumpkin in a can with no preservatives or something? I have not gotten meal worms for them yet... Is this an important part of their diet?

The majority of the stuff we've been feeding them are frozen, and then I thaw them (not cook) in the microwave and them cut up into pretty small pieces and put into their bowl.

I also realize I forgot to answer a couple of your questions.

It's the HPW you mix yourself

I don't really measure the HPW, but I would say it probably comes out to be 2 tsp. I can start measuring that out to make sure.

I live in colorado springs co, the temp has been pretty consistently in the mid 80s. I have a thermometer on their cage seems to stay at about 65 sometimes a little higher.

You are using MY fruit and vegetable list as a reference.

The other photos show that you have purchased Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food.

This is not the Wombaroo product you need to prepare the HPW Diet.

This can be fed in small amounts along with a well balanced glider diet but it is not intended to be used in making a staple.

The product you need is Wombaroo High Protein Supplement which is mixed with eggs, honey, water and bee pollen to make a staple that provides the protein, vitamins and calcium your glider needs daily.

www.thepamperedglider.com/supplements.htm

The recipe for original HPW which is now called CritterLove Original can be found here:

www.critterlovedietcenter.com/original.html

The diarrhea may be due to too many fruits and not enough vegetables or to the imbalanced staple you are feeding if you have substituted the Small Carnivore Food for the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement which provides the vitamins and calcium for the HPW recipe.

A well check up with a glider experienced vet is always recommended for any glider new to your home. Fecal testing will make sure your glider does not have parasite issues that will cause health problems is not treated. It is also good to establish your gliders as patients of an experienced glider vet BEFORE you need to seek emergency help for a sick or injured glider.

As for getting them to eat like they used to - sometimes it is a matter of changing the way you offer their food each night. Some gliders like the staple poured over the fruits and vegetables - others like the staple served separate from the fruits and vegetables. You may have to experiment and see if your gliders have a preference.

I would definitely recommend picking up the wombaroo high protein supplement for your next batch of OHPW. If you portion it out into ice cube trays (4tsp or 40ml per cube) it'll make nighttime feeding a lot easier. Eyeballing out such a small amount can be tricky and if you're accidentally over feeding the staple that could be leading to the smaller appetites for the solid fruit/veg.

Little baby gliders also prefer the sweet staple than the fruit and veg, so that they're eating the HPW over the fruits is not too surprising. But it is a good diet, even for young gliders...baby joeys usually start eating these types of foods at 6 weeks.

With the diet you're currently serving (the wombaroo small carnivore mix), it's hard to say if that is causing the loose stool.

Caned pumpkin, plain, no spices or anything added. I usually get the big can, then add some water to it in the blender and freeze it into ice cube trays. Then you have a stash on hand for any issues, canned pumpkin is great for constipation and loose stool. It's a good thing to keep around just to be safe.

Keep an eye on their hydration levels...if they're losing a lot of water in their stool that's not good. Gently pinch the skin on their scruff (back of neck), and watch it. If it stays tented up and takes a while to go back down, it means they're dehydated. If the skin goes down quick, they're hydrated. But if they keep having runny poos and are dehydrating, you'll definitely want to do some tests at the vet to rule out any parasites that could be causing the low appetites and the bathroom issues.

Sorry for the late response. They seem to be doing great. I gave them pumpkin like you stated, they loved it. You asked if I was giving them vegetables, and I presume it seems that I am not giving them enough veggies so we tried to give them some spinach and they loved it. Were going to try some turnip greens tonight. I have done the pinch the back of the neck thing for hydration levels on dogs, and my gliders don't really sit still long enough for me to try and do that to them. I kind of got one, but it didn't seem like it did anything, so I assume hydration. I've seen them both drink so they're good I believe.

I do have one more overall question and it concerns the list I posted the link to that I've been using to determine what's better to feed them and not. I know that you can give the little guys too much calcium so I've been trying not to give them too much of the powder. I know the overall goal is to give them a 2:1 calcium phosphorous ratio. Thing is, seems like most things are less than 1:1 on that list.

Is it ok to give them more of a variety of the other things that are say 0.4:1 and start providing them with the calcium powder to keep their diet varied? The little guys were doing super great there in the beginning and not so great recently on eating.

Thank you so much for your assistance btw. I'm super glad to have this forum as a resource while we're learning to take care of our little one's. If you're curious they're named Gaz and Leelah from Invader Zim and Futurama respectively.

I just had a thought...could the sprinkling of calcium powder maybe be making them not want to eat that food? I can't imagine calcium powder tastes very good, especially to a picky baby joey.

Anyway, you don't really need to sprinkle calcium. It's so hard to get a small enough dose, you could easily overdose them on it with just a sprinkle, and that could possibly be causing the runs.

You just need to nail down a by-the-book diet, stick with it for a month or two, and reassess. I think a lot of your concerns are just new glider jitters :)

For keeping cal:phos levels in range on the OHPW diet, if you use the OHPW recipe on Candys website, she uses a bit extra calcium in the staple so you won't have to worry so much about the fruit and veg ratios.

Personally, I offer a good calcium source (kale, spinach, bok choy, chard, etc) about once or twice a week to beef up the calcium count. Just offer a large variety over the course of a week and they will get what they need :)