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They can attack us but we can't attack them?


They can attack us but we can't attack them?
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 12:15:23 PM

So I am sorry guys to write this but I just went back on Pocket Pet's website and was reading through their bull crap, and I am just sick of it, of what they stand for, and the people that believe them. I know you all direct me and others to the mill breeding project, but I want to get things done locally. I know that they have threatened to sue me, but I am very aware that I have a right to free speech, and I don't care if they try, because I care far more about the poor animals that they are hurting. Also if they were to sue one of us, they would actually be hurting themselves publicly much more then we could! Somehow I don't think the money hungry business will be painted in a pleasant light by the media especially if they are attacking a young animal welfare activist. So I want your opinion guys, who is willing to step out of their comfort zone and brainstorm ideas to save the gliders that this leech of a place feeds on? Locally we could form picket lines or hand out materials at malls that we see them at. I am willing to make up buttons and fliers with the truth about gliders. I have tons of textbooks I can quote, if they want to continue to call us liars and say that we are nothing more then junior high schoolers who have no time and no education. Well I was top of my class in biology, from a school that ranked higher than Harvard, and what are their qualifications? They aparently have actors and lawyers and accountants, but that is all I know. What they quote on their website are falsehoods of themselves, small bits of correct information from a different subject taken out of context masquarading as truth. Their logic is highly flawed, and any lawyer or scientist that actually scanned their website thoroughly, they would find that it is absurd to quote from the DSM (mental health disorder classification book) and assume that the majority of us who post on this board, or any board, are addicted to the internet and suffer from an obsessive personality disorder. There is just so much more that I can get them on, but I need the manpower and the courage to stand up to them and point out their lies. It is not slander (technically libel-written word)if it is the truth. And as long as we back our info up with better sources then the people they pay off to make absurd hypothesis, we should be in the clear. Now I want us to brainstorm via PMs, incase the (my personal belief and therefore the next word is opinion-for legal purposes) douchebags are reading in on our posts. Please contact me with suggestions and I can organize mini squads of people to work on certain things. Also I am in Delaware, so anyone in northern VA, MD, NJ, or PA who wants to physically be present protesting, let me know! Please guys, I know this might be a bit of heat and such, but if we are glider lovers (and I have seen and heard your rescue stories), we can not sit idly by. We have to take action within legal limits. I'm not saying that we should resort to violence, I am for passive measures. The media is our friend, and our numbers are our strength. We all have different backgrounds, and different talents that can be put to use!

	ericofwar Joey 46 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 12:40:51 PM

This kind of fire is really inspirational and gets me pretty motivated. I think its important to realize that this isn't a sugar glider issue... its a disrespect of all life. The fact is, places like Pocket Pets and other milling operations view human life as the only meaningful life, and the rest is just money and the bottom line. When I picked up my glider on monday, I witnessed the most heart-breaking thing and heart-warming thing. My little joey's former owner often takes in rescue pets. She recently took in a lhasapoo who was rescued from a puppy mill of over 450 dogs. It had never stepped foot outside of it's tiny tiny cage for the six years of its life. It was pregnant year round. It never had any positive emotional contact. As a result, it had a terrible overbite. It's legs were bowed out excessively and it was scared of anyone and everyone. However, Linda was determined to reach out and you could visually watch it trying to trust her and feel real love and affection. Pet "owners" need to view themselves as stewards and companions. And, we (as moral, compassionate human beings) need to view these operations as more than sad and inconvenient. I'm not scared of these cowards. If there is something I can do, I always good for it :) Edited by - ericofwar on Nov 03 2009 12:42:34 PM
	Kazko Glider Geek TX, USA 3473 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 01:08:00 PM

I highly recommend conducting group activities over voice or skype in such a way that a document trail isnt as easy to collect. And with that, count me in. Is there a cash angel in our community that will help to support such an endeavor? Ideas on action are many but it seems that nobody is acting on anything or at least leading an effort.
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 01:17:45 PM

No that is very sound advice kazko. I know all about the talking all about doing things without actually doing anything. I have done that on many things in my life, and that is why I posted this, because I am sick of just saying things without doing anything. And I am sick of their threats and living in fear. I don't have massive amounts of money but enough to print up whatever needs to be printed. Please I urge those of you strong enough to stop posting annonymously and quietly mumbling about how pissed off you are about Pocket Pets and actually take a stand to help them. And not just this corporation, but any breeding corporation like them, there are a few from what I have seen and heard. I am proud to say that I am an animal lover. I do not own my animals. They are my friends and family. And I would gladly die for any of them, or sacrfice my own well being for them.
	ambie420 Joey 57 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 01:24:08 PM

whats the poket pet website? i wanna go look at it
	kyro298 Cuddle Bear CO, USA 11119 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 02:29:29 PM

It's blocked here and can't be posted. What kind of financial backing are you talking about and for what purposes? Edited by - kyro298 on Nov 03 2009 02:31:15 PM
	Anita Rae Glider USA 147 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 02:45:32 PM

filly, It seems like I've been waiting to hear those words for years. Count me in and I will do whatever I can to help. I don't think we are being bold enough. I've got some links and things saved about how to form legal protest if you don't already have them, I will send them to you. I also have some handouts that can be printed that I can send you. These are very direct about how to know if you are about to purchase a mill bred baby, but it doesn't name names. You could modify them anyway you want. Just point me in the right direction. TY,TY,TY! Actually if Kazko doesn't mind I could post the handouts here for anyone who wants to make a copy. And I feel sure that there are several in FL who would help out. Dunno, but I think there are.
	Mollysmom Face Hugger MI, USA 1704 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 03:07:40 PM

I think you can count myself and my husband in on this, too. I'm not sure what we can do. I know that our finances, like those of pretty much everyone else, are very tight right now. Maybe if we all put our heads and hearts together on this one, we'll come up with a way.
	suggieluv Glider SC, USA 361 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 03:16:40 PM

I don't have much in the way of finances but I will help anyway I can. I have a very small amount saved up (for just in case reasons), but if you need it for anything let me know.
	best_friendz2 Super Glider 829 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 03:37:17 PM

Ditto, I am still a teen so I don't have much but if you need any help with anything at all shoot me a pm. I'd be glad to help!
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 05:08:05 PM

I don't know if we will need to much financing, just the man power. Start out with those fliers and if anyone is on their mailing list I would like to know when they are going to hit certain malls so that we can get supporters to protest, even silent protests outside the mall if need be. I would love the help on the legal boundries Anita if you can help out with that. It might take a while to become organized, but it is so good to see how many people are ready to stand up and fight! I thank you all for your support. I know this may seem out of the blue to post this, but I have been sitting around with a cold all day and this has been nagging at me!

	Anita Rae Glider USA 147 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 08:55:09 PM

filly47, I sent you a couple of pm's. Let me know if that helps or not.
	best_friendz2 Super Glider 829 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 09:27:13 PM

Ok I couldprob make some fliers for the mall and you know just anywhere. But what would they say? Like I get we would be protesting ppp but...???
	Kazko Glider Geek TX, USA 3473 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 09:50:18 PM

Feel free to post such into the Gliderpedia. This way there can be revisions and multiple people can add to it. I think it would be handy to have a few generic fliers available to make it easy to hand out. One could also add a tinyurl to the flier that points to an online version with current content and also links to relevant forum discussions and supporting information. The Mill Breeder Project is great and their data collections may some day help in the endeavor to take these people down, but the reality is that nothing will probably ever be done other than collecting information. Someone will need some decent financial support and an interested legal team to work the magic from there. The sad thing about our lovely mill breeders and mass marketers is that they seem to not be breaking any federal or state laws or at least not being caught at it. This is going to be the important needle in the haystack for this problem. Perhaps its time for the community members, owners, site admins, hobby breeders and such to get together and collect funds to start paying a lobbyist in DC to act on our behalf to change some laws. Heck, the entire pet industry could use some legislation to make mill breeding of any kind unlawful so that the pet industry makes a major change to the hobby breeders; people who actually care about the animals they are breeding within the laws set forth. Sigh...
	kyro298 Cuddle Bear CO, USA 11119 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 10:06:06 PM

Has anyone tried contacting the Mill Breeder Project and see about joining forces? There's a lot of truth to "power in numbers". I think documentation is probably going to be the only thing that will ever prove they are breaking any laws. I'm not sure how else to stop them as opposed to slowing them down unless there's documented proof they are possibly breaking laws and spreaking diseases.
	kyro298 Cuddle Bear CO, USA 11119 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 10:09:10 PM

Spreading, that is...not spreaking. LOL
	Kazko Glider Geek TX, USA 3473 Posts
	Nov 03 2009 : 10:24:24 PM

You have to realize what you are asking someone to do here. The Mill Breeder Project website is registered and owned by an individual. This is the person at most risk for legal action for anything discussed or done. Unfortunately, the United States favors business with large pockets. Lawyers are money hungry and will do absolutely anything that their clients want regardless of who it destroys in the process. I am guessing that when their threat letter comes or two guys show up at their doorstep either in gangster or lawyer apparel, is there a difference, that the Mill Breeder Project will quietly shut down. Even if it becomes a corp or non profit, the same holds true. Big business will always win. Experienced a-holes will find an effortless way to destroy you personally. There is absolutely nothing wrong with collecting information, especially that of which can be supported in court by contacting the original individuals in the future when needed. There will be something wrong when that information is publicly shared or acted upon where it begins to make their business suffer. The wrongness can come in ever so many forms as some of our community members can already attest to. A well-delivered in-person threat can go a long way to deter most people and is only rebutted right then and there with handgun fire if you are so inclined, or Texan by chance. It's sad. All in all, I am starting to hate the way of things and the way our country is going. The individual has lost a lot of freedoms and powers over the years and the only way to get anything done these days in any fashion is to put your entire personal life at risk and/or to have lots of money in the name of ever-expanding big business and greedy politics. Nothing has ever changed in America, not really.
	Anita Rae Glider USA 147 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 07:09:49 AM

Most of those on the Mill Breeder project will work with anyone. And so will I. I think this is a great thing that we have going here and I hope we can keep the enthusiasm up and make this work. I've always felt like we should come together as a community and get in these peoples face. We are not the ones selling sick and underage joeys. We are not the ones putting out videos about shoving your thumb in a gliders mouth for 5 minutes. We have nothing to be ashamed of or to hang our heads about. So why do we sneak around on private websites? Sure I realize that there needs to be some secrecy. But Posts like this and Boards like this and People like us are the ones who will make changes. Honestly, I think Perfect Pocket Pets fears this scrappy little .com group who has been stong enough to come here and tell the truth. I think that is why they continue to try to trash this board and the fired up people on it. But take heart in the fact that they are watching you. And keep it coming.
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 07:38:21 AM

No thank you, I think I need to contact the mill breeding project and see if there is something we can colaborate on or help fund or whatever. And thank you kazko, I feel you on the 'state of america' and the crap of supporting money over what is right. Also lets just say that PETA might have a few things to say on the matter. Though I do not agree with their beliefs, they know how to get things done and are not afraid to get the evidence!
	Rita Cuddle Bear MO, USA 11128 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 01:57:40 PM

PETA KNOWS what is going on in America with animals. They KNOW and they do NOTHING. I hate PETA and everything they stand for. My reasons are to numerous to mention here. If anyone would have the money and the clout to do something, it would be PETA. But they sit back with their heads up the butts. They have lots of money and powerful people but what good do they do??? Sorry - this isnt a thread about PETA. But Im hoping maybe someone from PETA will see this and respond. Who knows, maybe they would even offer some help. Im not holding my breath....
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 04:47:05 PM

Yeah I just got an email back from PETA. I do not agree with PETA's beliefs, but I figured it was worth a shot because they have the resources that we need. Aparently sugar glider suffering means very little to them at the moment, so I guess the fight is on to us! Oh well, we can do it and we don't need PETA to do it. And for those of you who don't know PETA is an animal rights group, and I am for animal welfare. I personally do not feel as though animals can or should have legal rights. If this was to come to power, we could not have pets, because animal rights activists call people who own pets people who enslave the animal race and that animals need to be liberated. Death is far better than slavery......okay I'm not fighting this fight right now, I'm sorry for my rambling. Point is I am animal welfare, not animal rights.

	ericofwar Joey 46 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 08:56:16 PM

heh... you misunderstand them. first of all, almost everyone at peta owns a pet. most of them bring them to work with them every day. they have a patch of land with a natural fence (3 sides border a river) to take their pets out at will. they don't believe in abolishing pet companionship. when you walk inside headquarters in virginia beach, its adorable. second, while peta has grown tremendously, they can't fight every fight. they are limited by money, man power, and time like everyone else. its like asking the barak obama to attend your city hall meetings. i'm not gonna defend everything they do.. because i have my disagreements as well. but like i said in another thread, peta is mostly misrepresented. they do have some awkward views... and some of it is more retoric... but good luck finding a rights/welfare based organization that is effective, full of nothing but perfect high character people, and one that has the exact views as you. i've been vegan 8 years. i have multiple friends on staff at peta. i've been at headquarters plenty of times. i've spoken with ingrid newkirk (peta founder and president) face to face. cut them some slack.
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 09:16:02 PM

I am sorry to sound offensive to you, I have heard both sides of the PETA fight, and they both conflict, and I have friends who own pets and are PETA members and vegetarians, and I have friends who are supporters of petakillsanimals.com (or org? I forget). You are right in the fact that there is to much evil in the world, and not enough people to fight it-so I do need to cut them some slack. Okay off the PETA subject, there are now basic template fliers available on the gliderpedia, now all we need to do is get on their email list to find out when they are coming to town.
	ericofwar Joey 46 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 09:29:05 PM

no harm no foul :)
	Reenabee Glider 260 Posts
	Nov 04 2009 : 11:48:59 PM

I havnt read this whole thread, so sorry if I am repeating things. I read somewhere on here that you could get paperwork on where PPP will be setting up at Malls and Fairs and such. Well, if we arnt allowed to protest and say "PPP is a mill and horrible", is it illegal to just have people talk about sugar gliders and maybe have some pictures of what happens to them when they are not cared for or fed "Pellet" based foods. There are people from all over the united states on this site. If we get eough people involved, and have a post saying where PPP is currently set up, maybe we can have already made info packets and stories and get people to hand out fliers outside them. Im not sure if this would really work, but I would do it. Just Brainstorming
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 08:45:43 AM

No actually I was thinking the same thing. Have a rescue or nonprofit organization set up at the same mall and say the truth about gliders without saying outright the others are lying, but showing the harm of mill breeders and pelleted diets! If only I had the money to set up at the mall! There is now a wiki page with templates with info for handouts. Again we need to find out when and where they will hit. We need people to sign up on their website to join their mailing list.
	kyro298 Cuddle Bear CO, USA 11119 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 09:20:02 AM

Supposedly, you can only join their mailing list if you've purchased from them. I don't know if that's true or not. I do know that they have people watching these boards and many have been known to have suddenly been kicked off that mailing list after joining these boards. It isn't illegal to give people information but you have to have information to back it up. Showing pictures doesn't really prove anything, unfortunately. Setting up a booth seems like it may be helpful except I do know that having a booth in a mall is extremely expensive...ESPECIALLY Nov. 1-Dec. 31. I also don't know how they'd react about having someone in there that's trying to hurt the sales of a moneymaker. The mall gets a percentage of their profits. Maybe someone could get lucky and the person in charge of renting out the booths could be an animal lover. I would think if you had pictures and proof, that person would be a good person to start with as well.
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 09:54:33 AM

Also contact your mall and let them know that you disagree with them allowing mill breeders sell their animals in the mall and that you will be willing to boycott their mall. In a small town like mine, a mall def. takes it serious when a hundred people boycott their mall.
	starryskye1 Glider USA 182 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 10:30:06 AM

I dont know what I can do I live in Georgia but I am happy to help in any way possible. Just let me know what I can do!!
	Rita Cuddle Bear MO, USA 11128 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 10:46:16 AM

We should contact them and let them know we disagree with selling animals of any kind in the malls. This can work. Many of us got together and were able to shut down a pet store that sold many puppies (and sick puppies at that). It is a long, very difficult task - but it can be done. I cant tell you how many times I got thrown out of that store.
	filly47 Face Hugger USA 1279 Posts
	Nov 05 2009 : 11:17:44 AM

It is worth it to fight for something that you know is right. We owe animals a lot more than we realize. They are our friends and family, and have been victim to far to much abuse and neglect. When they can't defend themselves. we have to step up to the plate.

They can attack us but we can't attack them?

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