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  |  Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 20 2012 : 07:45:01 PM    |
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Are there any special things that we can do to help prevent a pouch or nipple infection for our little mommy's? At what time is it good to start handling the joey's? What is the best way to start handling the joey if the new parents are agressive at first? Will they be back to themselves after a while or will it take a few rounds of babies first?
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| helenmac
Glider
 126 Posts
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Jun 21 2012 : 01:43:05 AM  |
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Hi,
If the parents are unsure of you I personally would not touch the babies until they were 4 weeks OOP this would be to avoid stressing the family. after that start with putting your hand in the pouch to touch the babies and slowly progress to picking them up over a few days, take things slowly! there is nothing to be gained by rushing.
I am not sure about the infections, make sure they have a clean environment, I think infections like thrush can be caused by a lack of B12? not sure about this though. I am sure someone else can help you
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| petluv15
Fuzzy Wuzzy
  1500 Posts
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Jun 21 2012 : 07:42:22 AM  |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lauraann86
Are there any special things that we can do to help prevent a pouch or nipple infection for our little mommy's? At what time is it good to start handling the joey's? What is the best way to start handling the joey if the new parents are agressive at first? Will they be back to themselves after a while or will it take a few rounds of babies first?
Have you read Suz website?http://www.suzsugargliders.com/educationalarticles.htm Please make sure you have a rejection kit ready and an incubator right away just in case.
Not much you can do to prevent a pouch infection - keep an eye out for staining/oozing, not producing enough milk for the joeys, rejected/cannabalized joey and get her in asap if you notice anything out of the ordinary.
No, having more and more joeys will not likely help their personalities at all - in fact, its likely to continue to make it worse. Build up trust - you should only take the joeys out while dad is babysitting, not while mom is nursing. You can use treats to try and distract them, but if they are too upset by you handling them, then you need respect that and try again another day. Hopefully you are able to get them out at least to weigh them every few days - the main reason I wouldn't breed gliders who are aggressive is because you can't check on the joeys much to ensure they're getting milk, gaining weight, etc. If they were sweet before and now are aggressive due to the joeys, it may subside a bit between joeys, but chances are as soon as the one is 4-8 weeks old, she will have another one in pouch.
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 | Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 22 2012 : 09:13:06 AM |
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Since Males become sexually mature before the females will they try to mate before she reaches that point? Or is it like other animals who only try when the female is in heat? Since they shouldn't breed until about a year old, should I seperate them for a few months? will they be upset? What can I do to comfort them?
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| petluv15
Fuzzy Wuzzy
1500 Posts
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Jun 22 2012 : 09:34:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lauraann86
Since Males become sexually mature before the females will they try to mate before she reaches that point? Or is it like other animals who only try when the female is in heat? Since they shouldn't breed until about a year old, should I seperate them for a few months? will they be upset? What can I do to comfort them?
How old are they now? How long have you had them?
Females can go into heat as young as 4 months - they become sexually mature before they're physically mature and done growing. In the wild, they do not mate year round due to the seasons and food availability. Joeys born one spring have a whole year to mature before the next breeding season starts.
It is hard on the gliders to separate them. Some breeders put them together and watch for signs they're in heat - this requires you be very observant. Then you can separate them for 3-5 days around that time every month until she is older.
Another option is keeping them separate(although it sounds like you already have them together) and allowing only supervised playtime and not allowing it during her heat cycle(since you are supervising, you can intervene at the first sign of mating)...
Another option is to neuter this male and next time you select a breeding pair - get a female that is a few months older than the male so that it delays the time she gets pregnant.
Breeding is a big undertaking - please make sure to gather a rejection kit regardless. Although you can never be fully prepared for cannablization, it is a real possibility especially with young moms.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 07:37:57 PM |
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What are the signs that they are in heat?
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| kbolin92
Super Glider
TN, USA
240 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 07:57:22 PM |
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I hate to say this , but if you can't recognize their heat, you need to do more research before you start breeding.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 10:03:43 PM |
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So are you here to be cynical or helpful?
Or do you just like to make assumptions about strangers on forums?
And most of what i have read is that the male will take a special interest in her, especially grooming specific areas, she will start calling to him and she may act a bit grumpy.
I havent started to breed them yet, my babies aren't sexually mature enough. And I am learning as much as I can about breeding specifically, before they are. So I'm looking for advice from experianced breeders, if it's avalible.
Or am I mistaken thinking that's wha the site is meant for?
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| petluv15
Fuzzy Wuzzy
1500 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 10:36:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lauraann86
So are you here to be cynical or helpful?
Or do you just like to make assumptions about strangers on forums?
And most of what i have read is that the male will take a special interest in her, especially grooming specific areas, she will start calling to him and she may act a bit grumpy.
I havent started to breed them yet, my babies aren't sexually mature enough. And I am learning as much as I can about breeding specifically, before they are. So I'm looking for advice from experianced breeders, if it's avalible.
Or am I mistaken thinking that's wha the site is meant for?
I would look for a mentor who can help you one on one - the sweet spot has a program for this or perhaps the breeder(s) you got your gliders from would be able to help?.
From your posts, it seems you are fairly new to gliders in general and, in my opinion, these are questions you should have a good grasp about BEFORE even considering breeding. Unfortunately males can sexually mature as young as 12 weeks/3 months and females as young as 16 weeks/4 months so its a lot to learn to try and cram in that short period of time...
Many people advise owning gliders at least a year before breeding - this gives you time to learn who can help mentor you, what to look for in lineage, learn the ins and outs of every possible scenario, etc. After finding cannabalized joeys from rescues I took in...breeding just doesn't have much of an appeal to me and its best to have a lot of glider experience beforehand so you can do your best to raise well socialized gliders that hopefully won't end up in the rescue system because of well-screened homes, legal contracts, etc. which a breeding mentor could help you with...
This site is definitely more rescue focused than some of the others - there are many experienced breeders and a few rescue homes that have raised joeys, but with so many gliders in rescue, it is an important aspect to consider before breeding as well.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 11:39:06 PM |
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I have two breeders that I have talked to and one actually suggested to join this forum. It seems to me that every one haas a different opinion on everything!
I'm not planning on breeding them for at least a year. I want them to be old enough and grown. According to most resources The females are only in heat for about three days. I have another cage that I can put right next to theirs for that time and keep them seperated and I'm getting a new pop up tent so they will still be able to see eachother "supervised."
I do have another question however, about canibilized joeys. The only information I can find is that it's a horrible experiance for the owner. I was wondering about how the gliders handle it. Do they get depressed over loosing their babies? Will they continue with their next babies? Most resources have said that many will do this to their first born. Is this strictly dues to their age and diet or will they just do that some times under the best of conditions?
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| petluv15
Fuzzy Wuzzy
1500 Posts
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Jun 23 2012 : 11:48:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lauraann86
I do have another question however, about canibilized joeys. The only information I can find is that it's a horrible experiance for the owner. I was wondering about how the gliders handle it. Do they get depressed over loosing their babies? Will they continue with their next babies? Most resources have said that many will do this to their first born. Is this strictly dues to their age and diet or will they just do that some times under the best of conditions?
Gliders reject their joeys for a number of reasons - they can often sense when something is wrong with a joey even if its not apparent to us and they "take care of it". Age can play a role. Poor diet can influence things. First births can play a role. Sometimes mom's milk just doesn't come in well and they can't feed it. Inbreeding can affect the joey and they can sense some defect. Sometimes the joey gets too cold. Sometimes mom gets a pouch infection. Stress can trigger it and its not always evident to us what can stress them. Sometimes there is no apparent reason at all...it happens even to the best of breeders.
And yes, it does affect the gliders. They don't do it because its fun - they do it because they feel its necessary and its instinct. Their instinct tells them them to get rid of the traces because otherwise it attracts predators.
If a mom has a problem with rejection, especially multiple times, it is best to retire her. Some gliders just do not want to be mothers...or maybe the pair is just not compatible or her body just can't handle the stress of pregnant/raising joeys...
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| kbolin92
Super Glider
TN, USA
240 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 12:59:16 AM |
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It is not always possible to catch their breeding. If you dont plab
n to breed for a year , why not just neuter ?
Im not being cynical, merely realistic .
Just about everyone on the forum has the same opinion , that breeding is difficult and emotional and if you have not found answers to these questions you just arent ready. if you canr appreciate that , dont ask for advice , because we will advise for the sake of the gliders , not feelings.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 08:00:52 AM |
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Petlove15 thank you for your answer. Very informative and helpful.
Kbolin92- glider have a 28 day cycle, they are in heat for three days, if you read my post you would see that I don't plan on trying to just jump in before they do the deed.
Realistic, opinionated or bossy? Last time I checked people who are realistic are capable of being polite, and open to another way of doing things.
I know it's going to be tough and time consuming, isn't anything that's worth doing?
I am good with things that are tough, I have the time to do this and the resources. Would you feel better to come check for yourself?
So now I am gathering as much information as possible. Before my babies become sexually mature so I can be prepared when they do.
That sounds like the responsible way to go to me.
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| Candy
Zippy Glidershorts
USA
4508 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 11:41:44 AM |
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If these will be your first gliders, I would second the suggestion that you start out with either 2 females or a female and a neutered male and consider breeding after you have some experience with gliders as pets.
Getting two gliders with plans to keep them separate for a year while they mature will not give you the same experience as having two gliders living together. Gliders have unique personalities that really only shine when you get to observe them interacting with other gliders.
Supervised play time in the tent will give you some sense of that interaction but unless you plan to stay in the tent ALL NIGHT EVERYNIGHT, your gliders will always be in the introduction stage where they do a lot of sniffing, following and chasing as they get to know each other.
The two gliders will still be sleeping alone in separate cages - they will not have the comfort of a companion to groom with and snuggle with while sleeping.
Instead of exploring their own cages and playing, you may see a lot of them hanging on the side of their cage trying to interact with their "neighbor".
I find the long hissing followed by a short bark call of a lonely glider trying to locate her friends to be a very sad sound. I only hear this when I have had new gliders that are still quarantined in another room or that have finished quarantine and are still alone but near other glider cages. They know other gliders are nearby but out of reach. On the other hand, you may also be kept awake at night by one glider or the other barking excessively trying to call the other to join him/her.
If you just have to breed, get a somewhat older female - 10 to 12 months OOP. You can then get a younger male and introduce them after the 30 day quarantine. They can be cage mates as he continues to mature. I feel a pair of gliders that have had time to bond with each other as cage mates will do better together as glider parents than a pair that have been kept apart and only introduced when they are mature enough to breed. There could be joeys on the way, in the second situation, before the pair have even fully bonded with each other.
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| Tigerlily88
Face Hugger
KY, USA
501 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 02:23:06 PM |
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Recognizing heat cycles is VERY difficult to do, especially because they are active at night. I have been breeding for over a year, and have 4 breeding females, and have not once caught one of mine -before- they've started mating. This is true for many seasoned breeders. I agree with the others that counting on being able to do this in your first pair of gliders will be impossible for you to do and will end up in an early pregnancy. This can result not only in cannibalized joeys, but a mother who will then use much of the nutrients she needs to be growing her own body to grow her joeys, which can cause many problems such as HLP and other metabolic bone diseases.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 03:18:55 PM |
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I didn't realize that even after 4 years it would still be difficult to tell. They aren't my first pair of gliders just my first breeding pair. My other pair is a boy and a girl and hes neutered. And I'm rather nocturnal too. I spend half the night with them. I am going to introduceing my females together and my males together and have them room until they are old enough. Then there is no lonelyness and no babies before they are ready. I think that I may still have supervised tent time so they aren't complete strangers when they move in together. Any tips for introductions?
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| petluv15
Fuzzy Wuzzy
1500 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 03:30:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Lauraann86
I didn't realize that even after 4 years it would still be difficult to tell. They aren't my first pair of gliders just my first breeding pair. My other pair is a boy and a girl and hes neutered. And I'm rather nocturnal too. I spend half the night with them. I am going to introduceing my females together and my males together and have them room until they are old enough. Then there is no lonelyness and no babies before they are ready. I think that I may still have supervised tent time so they aren't complete strangers when they move in together. Any tips for introductions?
I'm going to try to say this the nicest way possible, the reason people are ASSUMING you haven't owned gliders long is because you are asking many basic questions. I'm not trying to imply that asking questions is a bad idea, but not knowing answers to things such as safe foods is a bit concerning when you now also intend on breeding...you should have the answers to these questions as an owner and especially as a breeder because you should be asking prospective owners and need to know the answers to help educate/screen homes or at least where to quickly find these answers(such as gliderpedia, glider central has a list, Ed of LGRS has a list, etc.)
Please do NOT do re-pair up your gliders...that is so unfair to your current BONDED pair to be split up like that, then re-paired off just to breed... Splitting gliders is stressful on them and should only be done when its in the best interest of the glider. There are some *breeders* that do that and use their gliders like studs and rotate them or split the pairs to retire the females but keep breeding the males...that is one thing that makes me almost sick to my stomach. I have had to split up a few gliders TEMPORARILY and it is hard on them and to do it multiple times just to breed is in no way for the good of the gliders...
There is no win solution unless you neuter your current male and wait until your female is older to get another compatible male. If you are not willing to do that, then you have to either hope they don't get depressed being kept separate or put them together and risk an early pregnancy and hope for the best...
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| Tigerlily88
Face Hugger
KY, USA
501 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 03:50:06 PM |
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I'd just like to reiterate what Petluv had mentioned before about getting a breeding mentor. I agree that the kinds of questions you've been asking make it seem as if the people who have been guiding you aren't giving you either the advice, or the amount of attention that you need. While there are several knowledgeable people in regards to breeding on this forum, you are clearly in need of much more research and guidance than can be given in this setting.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 24 2012 : 05:02:27 PM |
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I asked about the food because I was always told and read that things like grapes, marshmallows and corn where bad for your gliders, and I got on here and people are saying they give them to their babies. Some sites have said not to feed them frozen things and some do that as well. Some people have listed recipes for treats they make their babies so it's nice to gain another perspective. My newer babies are much picker then my others they don't touch their vegi's at all. I didn't have that trouble with my other ones. I don't know any other glider owners, what I have learned has been off of online and different sites say different things. Like I said, I wanted some perspective.
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| Lauraann86
Joey
37 Posts
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Jun 25 2012 : 07:43:46 PM |
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Well some of you will be happy to know that these babies arent going to be having babies. I took my little man to the vet and aparently he is missing one of his "boys". The vet sais some times they just dont drop but according to the xrays there is only one. Since that can be passed along, its better that hes getting neutered.
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