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Vet is Recommending Pelleted Diet and Pocket Pets Products
Vet is Recommending Pelleted Diet and Pocket Pets Products
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Jun 12 2018
02:03:07 AM
I got my new guy neutered and thankfully it went off fine and he's doing well.

However, the vet gave me some really terrible diet advice. He said to feed 75% pellets and 25% fruits, and told me not to feed chicken or egg. He recommended pocket pets pellets and vitamins and even included links to them, along with similar products from other companies. He also said gliders need a diet high in fiber. Huh?

Keep in mind these are just his written instructions, I never met him and talked to some techs who at least knew what bml was. Needless to say I will not be following this vet's diet advice. He is clearly in Pocket Pets' pocket.

I went to this hospital because they are a teaching hospital and have an exotics department and were able to do laser surgery. They are the place in the region other vets refer glider owners to. Them giving out this advice is going to cause a lot of harm to gliders, and probably already has. This is malpractice. It's the complete opposite of what the Merck Vet Manual says: https://www.msdvetmanual.com/all-other-pets/sugar-gliders/providing-a-home-for-a-sugar-glider about diet, so he has no excuse.

Edited by - Scoria on Jun 12 2018 02:12:07 AM
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Jun 12 2018
08:49:18 AM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
This might get long

1 Vets are not dietitians or nutritionists.

One of the vets I had high hopes for that is local to me started "educating me" on glider diets when I took two very healthy gliders in for a wellness exam. It was also some sort of pellet diet, she had never heard of Bml. When I started asking her questions she couldn't answer I answered them to her. When I started explaining the 2:1 ratio she put her fist full of diet information back in her drawer and said I think it's safe to say you know how to feed your gliders. That conversation was almost enough for me to not want to go back there. I did go back a few times for a couple different issues that she really didn't help with much that I will get into later.

She's still a very promising vet but just doesn't have enough hands on glider experience.

my 2nd vet. I took a female in with a neck wound about the size of a 50 cent piece that was infected. The vet spent the first hour lecturing me ( seriously lecturing not talking or explaining anything ) on diet, telling me I'm feeding them all wrong despite not knowing what I actually feed and not asking me what I feed and she said my gliders were all probably malnourished. Mean while she had not even asked what we were there for and hadn't even set eyes on the glider.

I finally snapped and said I did not come here to be berated over diet, I came here for a INFECTED WOUND that obviously I can't treat at home or I wouldn't have come here for you to throw stitches in and give me a prescription for meds My gliders are not malnourished if You'd BOTHER to look at Nicky who was about 140 grams she does however have a gaping wound on the back of her neck that could use some MEDICAL attention from a VET. She finally looked at Nicky as I got her out of the pouch and said "OMG that is infected!!" .........ya don't say!! NOW can YOU do something about it or do I need to find another vet?

She put Nicky under, cut off the infected areas, stitched her up, gave me exactly 10 drops of antibiotics and we left. Nicky healed and recovered just fine.

I was so irritated with her that we started going back to vet 1 who was at least able to recognize I know more about gliders than she does I just don't have a medical degree

This last year I have been battling a bacteria infection in two of my cages.
Vet 1 would not do any of the tests I requested. The only actual test she would do was fecals and they always came back clean. We tried treating this issue with several different medications oral and topical based on what I thought the issue was but without proper testing it was just guessing and hoping. Well nothing worked. So we went back to the Diet Nazi vet 2.

My appointment with the Diet Nazi was at like 3 pm. It took over 2 hours to even get in the exam room, and another hour for the vet tech to come in and collect all the info. By now it's 6pm. The vet finally comes in and launches into her lecture about diets and telling me the gliders issue is diet related.

UGHHHHHHHH here we go again!! This time, I interrupted her at every turn and threw as much information at her as she was trying to do with me. Still hadn't even looked at the gliders to see the visible symptoms. I asked for 2 tests one a tape test and 2 a bacterial c & s test. The only test she would do was a fecal and it was clean. She tried telling me the gliders were stained from poor diet.

I've been involved with rescue and rehoming gliders for the last few years this is NOT diet staining. I can show you the difference in diet staining with pictures.... this is not that. This is some sort of bacteria or yeast infection!

Well she wasted soooo much time on diet that it was to late to call vet 3 for a consultation. Vet 3 has 2 glider specialists and are extremellllllly expensive. So vet 2 wanted to call vet 3 the next day and see what test she should do, OK fine!! if they will tell you that awesome.

Now, the whole diet lecture has me really irritated so irritated I sat here n wrote the vet a letter explaining that I am there seeking medical attention and I need you as the VET to do your actual job and be the VET not the nutritionist hurling information at me that I already know. It turned out to be 4 pages long when I printed it out.

The next day I called to see what they found out. The receptionists, who knows how irritated I am with the whole diet thing, tells me that vet 3 told vet 2 what test to do and asked if I could come back in today.... ok GREAT YES GETTING DRESSED RIGHT NOW!!

When we got there, I had the receptionists anddd the vet tech read my letter to the vet, and asked if there was an email I could send it to the vet. They said absolutely and that they were glad someone is finally saying something about the diet lectures. It's not just with gliders that she does this, its with all the animals... sooo I thought cool I'll email it later when I get home. Well the receptionists decided they weren't waitin for that and gave my letter to the vet before she came in to run the test.

She came in HOT n loaded!! and again we had a half hour debate on diets before finally she said "In the wild gliders eat..." and I cut her off again with IN THE WILD gliders have different nutritional needs than gliders in captivity so please lets not go down that path. If you want the honest TRUTH of it all we still don't SCIENTIFICALLY know what gliders dietary needs actually ARE. We ARE currently hoping the dietary study happening RIGHT NOW will tell us something about that but the study is in very early stages and it might take YEARSSSS to get any conclusive answers. So allll of the conversations you and I have already had are irrelevant and we are feeding them what we feel is working the best in the glider community UNTIL we have some answers if we ever do. NOW what is the test vet 3 said to run and can we set all this BS aside and attempt to medically treat my ILL gliders??

It seriously took a 4 page letter and me losing my sh$t for her to do her damn job. The test was a tape test, They take a piece of scotch tape, press it on the glider, drop some dye on it and look at it under the microscope. In less than a minute she saw yeast. Then she started talking like a vet!

The treatment for the yeast infection STILL didn't clear up all the gliders. So I called vet 2 and begged for the bacterial c & s test.... she didn't even know what that is and referred me to vet 3 the one she called for the consultation.


Vet 3, never once even asked what I was feeding, and never once brought up diet! He DID know what the bacterial c & s test is ANNDDDDD took samples from one of the gliders to run the test!! 3 weeks later the tests show FOUR different kinds of bacteria in high numbers, and which meds should treat it best.

We are currently still in the 21 days of antibiotics and medicated baths treatment plan. So far a couple of the gliders are showing small signs of improving 2 are not.

Now, as I said vets are not dietitians or nutritionists. However, they do sometimes feel obligated to make sure the owner is feeding the animal "properly" as per what the vets limited knowledge of proper diets go. Often the owners are not educated enough in exotic pets diets, and that is what these vets are used to dealing with. They are also used to dealing with gliders on their death beds, some are malnourished and not taken care of properly. It is rather normal for vets to look at all owners in the same light instead of recognizing the owner as an individual that did research. Personally I don't fault them for that as I have seen it first hand myself.

Vet 2 is a diet nazi but she feels she would be doing a disservice to the animal if she didn't do her best to see that they are getting what she feels is an ideal diet.

I don't think the diet she recommends is ideal but I also don't have to feed it.
This vet now knows, I have educated myself, I can debate with her all day long, I have valid points and finally I know my gliders better than she does. But she didn't know that when I first starting going there. Vet 2 will probably be my main vet for things within her depth. Which are basic wellness exams, seroious wound care, amputations and dental extractions Vet 3 will be my go to for anything I feel vet 2 can't handle or anything she tells me she can't handle as she did with the bacterial infection.






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Jun 13 2018
02:04:01 AM
Scoria Glider Visit Scoria's Photo Album Scoria's Journal 113 Posts
The last two times my friend went to this hospital the vets recommended bml. Idk if the different exotic vets here have different ideas about diet (I'm sure that's probably the case) I just know I was really annoyed at the downgrade in diet advice, especially since they outright recommended pocket pets diet and I detest that company.

I actually had a convo on the phone today with the tech and she said what I was feeding was probably fine. The vet called later because I said I'd like to discuss it with her (the guy listed on the discharge paper must have been the dept. head or something, the person I saw in the back with the tech was the vet after all) but missed me, I'm going to call her back tomorrow to discuss it. The tech was pretty nice and understanding so I feel vet probably will be too. I want to see where's she coming from with this recommendation.
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Jun 13 2018
08:22:02 AM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
why do you detest pocket pets?
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Jun 13 2018
01:19:32 PM
Scoria Glider Visit Scoria's Photo Album Scoria's Journal 113 Posts
They lie to people about the ease of glider care, and their mall kiosk method relies heavily on impulse buys by people who haven't done proper research and later have buyer's remorse. They charge way too much for gliders as well, much more than honest breeders normally do. They recommend a bad diet. So they're dishonest and animals suffer because of it. Plus they renamed their site *site banned* after the existing sugarglider.info to try to seem more legitimate. They have a variety of sites linking back to each other, including a site posing as sugar glider vet, in order to seem more legitimate: https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-business-perfect-pocket-pets-to-stop-the-cruelty-and-selling-of-sugar-bears-aka-sugar-gliders

Plus they are known for harrassing members of the glider community and trying to shut them up with their corporate might. They also tell their customers to never read any information on gliders other than theirs.

Pretty much every aspect of how this company does business is abhorrent and I just find them very evil.

Edited by - Scoria on Jun 13 2018 01:20:43 PM
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Jun 13 2018
02:29:48 PM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
UGHHHHHHHH I had a post I tried to edit n lost the whole thing it must be naptime I'll repost when I wake up
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Jun 13 2018
05:38:07 PM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
ok first let me start off by saying, I am not a supporter of pp, but nor do I bash them. I am neutral, but I wasn't always. I too once thought they were horrible until someone explained their history and provided information that I didn't know because that isn't what is parroted by those that don't like them.

Yes, I agree they misinform people on the ease of care, and compatibility with other pets. However, they DO offer ongoing support, and information care to their customers that most breeders even reputable ones don't. A lot of owners find that information valuable and some of it is borrowed from veteran owners in the community with their permission.

Impulse buys. There are only 2 long time breeders ( pp don't actually breed ) in the glider community that doesn't advertise their joeys or gliders at all.

The rest all use some sort of impulse buy promotion. From omg look at that sweet baby joey pics on facebook, websites, breeding pages, craigslist etc where ever they advertise, to " omg I can't believe she hasn't found a home yet".

Those pics and posts are considered by some to provoke impulse buys. They are hoping you fall in love with that glider and buy it. They post the same pic or video in several groups, on several sites because that is the only way they can really advertise and get the gliders seen. Not much different than PP showing gliders off in a mall, they both want you to go awwwwwwwww I haveeeee to have it!!

Some breeders even reputable breeders, don't ask questions to see if your educated, or if you have a decent cage, what diet your going to feed, if you have other gliders etc... they just want a sale.

Which is where Cost comes in. PP is expensive yes, but your not going to buy a glider from them without the start up set up because they are insuring the glider has a decent cage to go home too. Is it expensive? hell yes, but it's just as expensive going and buying it all separately. The cages are quality cages and last forever, The wheel is a new safer version that they upgraded too WITH advice and suggestions from some of the reputable safe wheel vendors.

The diet also got an upgrade some time ago and is actually one of the most widely used diets Critter Love repackaged for pp, the pellets I think are the pet pro pellets which is the most widely suggested pellet to use if your going to use pellets at all.

PP is also the ONLY place that offers a 12 year guarantee on the glider if you follow all their guidelines. Not any breeder has a guarantee on the glider that I know of.

I know TWO breeders, who keeps cages, wheels, cage sets, bonding bags pouches etc ON hand and available to sell with their gliders.

Out off all the breeders in the community 2 Breeders is not that many. Most breeders are selling THE glider and possibly breeding rights, thats it, so their prices can be a lot more reasonable unless they have to ship..

PP are the ONLY ones neutering ALL males. They neuter all males to do their part to help with the backyard breeding and mill breeding problem, which is a very big problem and why PP even exists. PP believes every glider deserves a home no matter where it came from.

Breeders in the glider community don't neuter all their males, unless they are being sold as pet only because they can sell them at higher prices with breeding rights.


So factoring in the glider, cost of neuter if its a male, cage, food, wheel, water bottle, pouch all from the same vendor, yep it all adds up in a hurry but you leave with everything you need to start up.

Unlike how I picked up my first glider. She left the breeders house in a sock and crabbed the whole way through Petsmart because We had no cage yet, no wheel yet, only basic knowledge of what they eat. We went through 4 over priced to small of cages before we got a good one. We went through 3 silent spinner wheels before we got a safe one. It took me 6 months to figure out diets. I WISH the breeder had sold me a pp set up it would have been a lot cheaper

Harassing. PP gets harassed more than any company I know lol. They are not involved in the online community and I have never seen them harass anyone.

The actual problem is this. PP is the biggest competition all glider breeders have. That ticks off most of the other breeders. That is where the years of hostility came from. PP is a nation wide ( in legal states ) business, yep they make money, n that makes people mad, yep they sell a crap ton of gliders, that also makes people mad. But they also step up and do things other people aren't and won't.

A lot of people have very good experiences with pp just as many don't have good experiences, no different than a reputable breeder some will have a great experience others won't.

The saddest thing about all of this is. This owner is sooo excited, sooo in love with their glider, the glider is the sweetest glider andddd the first time they post a pic of their sweet baby they get jumped on because they got it from pp.

People get nasty to them which makes them not want to get involved with the glider community. Which keeps them from learning more. All they wanted to do was ask a question or show off their babies and be part of the glider world and they are treated horribly. It really is a shame. There is only one facebook group that is PP neutral. And THAT is why pp tells their customers to avoid the glider community and I don't blame them.


I'm sure there is some stuff I'm forgetting to mention but this is long enough as it is lol I don't know if any of this will change your perception of pp or not, but it certainly did mine. I don't like and agree with everything they say or sell but I do respect the positive things they are doing.

Edited by - Leela on Jun 13 2018 05:57:15 PM
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Jun 13 2018
06:09:55 PM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
ohhh the pp vet! I've watched most of those videos, some of the info is good and some of it isn't. Like with any resourse you educate yourself from, use your best judgement and what works for you.

Also check the dates of when that information was posted. At least one of those vet videos is from 2009 the rest of his videos are probably from the same time period. Things that were relevant and accurate in 2009 may not be relevent or accurate now. Things change in the glider world unfortunately outdated information is still being seen and used, including on this forum. Check dates on the posts you use to research

Yep that guy promoted a pellet diet, a lot of people do, including our vets....

I don't know why he seems to be pp poster child or if he is actually even affiliated with pp or not
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Jun 13 2018
06:23:02 PM
Ballistic_Glider Joey 26 Posts
Don't let vets tell you what to feed your babies! Pocket Pets is such a debated topic with sugar glider owners. I personally don't support them because they have and still do spread bad and fake information. I suggest something like Critterlove Complete instead of a pellet diet. Pellets aren't really the best for a whole diet.
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Jun 27 2018
10:13:02 PM
Emmikate Joey Visit Emmikate's Photo Album 33 Posts
All I know on the pp issue is I bought my girl from them almost two weeks ago and I become more and more furious at the things they told me. They said I could feed her pizza! Wish I was kidding. Thank God for this place i am in contact with a breeder for #2 and have her on the critter love salad diet. She is perfect and I wouldn't change that we met but never will I recommend them. They lied multiple times and I learned a lesson about impulse. I'm just lucky this one has turned out to be one I can handle. I already have the layout for her bedroom in my future apartment in my head.
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Jun 28 2018
12:12:07 PM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
One thing I didn't mention, there are a lottttt of vendors that appear to be PP vendors that are not actually affiliated with PP.

People copy the PP display ( which isn't hard to do as it's a standard display they all use ) even their information and pass themselves off as PP brokers. It can be difficult to tell that they are independent vendors mimicking a well known company.

Because of the impulse buy, people don't usually take the time to vet that particular vendor to make sure they really are from the PP company. They just assume they are because it's the same set up and info.

Like I said, I do not support them, or promote them in anyway. Nor do I agree with everything they say or do. I am just neutral on it and don't believe all the parroted information is accurate.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience Emmikate, and glad you are making different choices with your 2nd. I hope it's a much better experience with better information

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Jun 30 2018
04:43:38 PM
suggielover329 Starting Member 1 Posts
omg did the vet actually recommend pocket pets to you!!? Those people make me angry. I just went through and did a lot of research myself, because I will admit: I bough Steve (my suggie) from Pocket Pets. I thought pelleted food was pretty stupid, so I did a lot of research. Turns out that it isn't all that great for them, so I am in the process of switching over to a non-pelleted diet. Please don't flame me, I'm still a newbie. On the other hand, can someone please give me an idea of what to feed him? I've been doing egg, spinach, apples, and honey. Is that good? Again, please don't flame me.
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Jun 30 2018
05:28:33 PM
Leela Goofy Gorillatoes Gliderpedia Editor Visit Leela's Photo Album Leela's Journal 2829 Posts
I don't think anyone will flame you here. We all start out somewhere ...

Good diets to get familiar with are Bml and Critter Love. They are the only 2 I recommend and are easiest for new owners.

Bml http://www.bmldiet.com/index.html is the easiest, most straight forward, tested diet out there in my opinion. You can find all the ingredients at your local grocery and pet store. It's affordable, easy to make, takes all the guess work out of what to feed.

Bml has a strict list of fruits and veg to be fed with the staple. Just follow the recipe and feeding directions to the letter, same goes with any diet you may chose.

Critter Love Hpw https://www.critterlove.com/# is also easy, straight forward and tested. You do have to buy it from Critter Love, or find online stores that sell Critter Love products. There are different formulas of critter love the original requires added ingredients, the complete is instant just add water, and there is a breeders formula as well. The most commonly fed are the first two.

Critter love diets have salad recipes that are on her site, to be fed with it.

Both of the diet creators are happy to answer any questions you may have either through their website or on facebook.

Until you decide on a diet, you can feed.......

Protein: eggs boiled or scrambled, full fat yogurt no artif sweeteners, boiled or baked no butter oil or seasonings chicken or turkey

Fruit, apples, blueberries, melons, grapes

veg green beans carrots peas corn

Personally I stay away from dark leafy greens because I feel they are very high in oxalates so I don't feed spinach or kale or greens if I do it's a rare treat.


Edited by - Leela on Jun 30 2018 05:35:06 PM
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Vet is Recommending Pelleted Diet and Pocket Pets Products

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Vet is Recommending Pelleted Diet and Pocket Pets Products