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Even keel exotic breeder PETITION
Even keel exotic breeder PETITION
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May 11 2012
12:33:23 AM
i was member a few years ago and saw a post about this even keel breeder in it and about how he was not giving the animals correct care.thought id share the petition that has come up about that topic.http://www.change.org/petitions/even-keel-exotics-discontinue-poor-animal-sales-and-practices
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May 11 2012
01:09:58 AM
shadow Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit shadow's Photo Album MO, USA 2332 Posts
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31018&SearchTerms=keel thought it would be useful to post this thread that happened last year. Even Keel came onto the forum to comment on it. good luck with the petition you might also want to get in touch with the millbreeder project to see if they can yelp you out.

Edited by - shadow on May 11 2012 01:10:29 AM
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May 11 2012
06:06:29 AM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
I called them out on their page a few times, amazed they haven't blocked me, though alot of my posts on their facebook got deleted. A friend of a friend just bought a glider from him, and I went to his page and read their diet page. Called him out on their, and on the link the friend had posted I did again telling people not to buy gliders from him as they look sick, have small cages, and feed improper diets. Not to mention selling single gliders... I'm definitely all for getting him shut down.
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May 11 2012
12:32:38 PM
shadow Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit shadow's Photo Album MO, USA 2332 Posts
yeah i remember doing that as well. i think im ban from his page XD lol getting him shut down wont only help the gliders but all the other poor animals he breeds.
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May 11 2012
12:46:07 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Agreed. I'm all for having someone in the state that breeds exotics, (hell, I plan on getting a pet fox when I own a house) but only if they are taking proper care of them. They are EXOTICS, they need special care! Though I do wonder what will become of all of the animals he has if he's shut down. It would be a shame to see them all put to sleep... I know most people won't look at foxes and skunks as pets, but they can be very good ones given proper care, just like gliders.
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May 11 2012
12:51:00 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Haha I just commented on someone's post on his facebook page today because someone was asking about gliders, just checked back, the post has been deleted... Oops
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May 11 2012
01:07:53 PM
DoubleBogey Fuzzy Wuzzy Visit DoubleBogey's Photo Album USA 1244 Posts
I am all for the mission of change.org and all for petitions - but unfortunately, they do not actually get someone shut down. What they DO though, is get attention. More people will be aware and that is valuable. My biggest question after reading this is - has anyone reported them to the USDA recently? What about any other local authority? Is anyone on this personally to try to drive the activity with the USDA? Each and every owner that gets a pet from him needs to report him if there is a reason to do so. The objective complaints of customers will ring VERY loudly...much more loudly than individuals that are angry about second hand stories (even though we have every right to be!).

He sounds like a horrible man running a horrible business. There needs to be someone that is willing to reach out to these customers and educate them on where to go to complain. It doesn't take many to get an inspection. They are required to follow up on a licensed business when they are complained on. If a pet dies after purchase and there is a confirmed case of an infectious disease or lack of care, etc - that means even more. Are these people sending vet reports? Necropsy results? These are tangible pieces are evidence that will put more nails in the coffin. Is there someone that is vested enough to be working on this? That is what this case needs IMHO.
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May 11 2012
01:10:36 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
I couldn't agree more, unfortunately I only know one person who has bought from them, and she got a glider, which (after much nagging from me) is being very well taken care of. I think someone needs to find a way to contact the girl from that old thread shadow posted, the one that got the gliders from him...
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May 11 2012
01:22:49 PM
izabellahogmama Starting Member 5 Posts
hello all,i did not make this petition....i just found it on Facebook and shared it because i remember hearing about him on his forum a while back.im not too sure about what is going to happen.my fb friend is calling the usda today to file a complain because her hedgehog died less than a week after coming home.shes is very upset and getting a necropsy...lets just hope it shows his neglect.i agree something more needs to be done,at least people are getting the word out,which i think is better than nothing.but could possibly go no were:( i dont have any personal experience with him so im not much help
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May 11 2012
01:30:13 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Agreed, getting the word out might put him out of business almost as fast as the USDA could... That's alot of animals to care for without income...
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May 11 2012
01:30:52 PM
shadow Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit shadow's Photo Album MO, USA 2332 Posts
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DoubleBogey</i>
<br />I am all for the mission of change.org and all for petitions - but unfortunately, they do not actually get someone shut down. What they DO though, is get attention. More people will be aware and that is valuable. My biggest question after reading this is - has anyone reported them to the USDA recently? What about any other local authority? Is anyone on this personally to try to drive the activity with the USDA? Each and every owner that gets a pet from him needs to report him if there is a reason to do so. The objective complaints of customers will ring VERY loudly...much more loudly than individuals that are angry about second hand stories (even though we have every right to be!).

He sounds like a horrible man running a horrible business. There needs to be someone that is willing to reach out to these customers and educate them on where to go to complain. It doesn't take many to get an inspection. They are required to follow up on a licensed business when they are complained on. If a pet dies after purchase and there is a confirmed case of an infectious disease or lack of care, etc - that means even more. Are these people sending vet reports? Necropsy results? These are tangible pieces are evidence that will put more nails in the coffin. Is there someone that is vested enough to be working on this? That is what this case needs IMHO.
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not sure. if you read the thread i linked to. we had tried to get people to go visit him but either people couldnt or never updated after that(at least i think its been awhile lol). but the hard part is to get people to not forget this person exist after this thread dies. i would hope people would search for his name on the forum but some dont or dont even think about it or something. it would be nice to have a buyer beware section somewhere for people like this. or just a list of millbreeders/millbrokers in the gliderpedia.
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May 11 2012
01:32:51 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
I read through the whole thread this morning, Shadow, no one ever gave results of visits. I could talk to the one person I know that has experience with him, but am considering taking a trip down there myself just to see his facilities and animals...
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May 11 2012
01:36:58 PM
shadow Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit shadow's Photo Album MO, USA 2332 Posts
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KritterCare</i>
<br />I couldn't agree more, unfortunately I only know one person who has bought from them, and she got a glider, which (after much nagging from me) is being very well taken care of. I think someone needs to find a way to contact the girl from that old thread shadow posted, the one that got the gliders from him...
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which person was it that got the gliders from him?? maybe somebody will know if they see the name and dont want to read through the whole thread to find out lol.
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May 11 2012
01:45:55 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Little Jenn - she got 4 of them, there's pictures on the 3rd page of the thread. Both of the cage they came in, and the gliders... it's not pretty.
Then there was Stephi25 - she got one from him that wasn't in great shape either. Before/after pictures at the bottom of page 5/top of page 6
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May 11 2012
03:08:17 PM
DoubleBogey Fuzzy Wuzzy Visit DoubleBogey's Photo Album USA 1244 Posts
Nope, I didn't read it. I am posting on a quick break from work and unfortunately, I don't have time to read pages and pages of posts. I appreciate Kritter netting it out for me. I just figured I would add value where I can.
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May 11 2012
03:18:50 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Unfortunately, I don't think either of those members have posted in a while, so I don't know if anyone would be able to get ahold of them for their help on the matter.
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May 11 2012
04:31:12 PM
izabellahogmama Starting Member 5 Posts
thought id ad this link to his youtube account,lots of vid of animals www.youtube.com/user/tetratec150

i cannot believe he let so many gliders die on this one report,heres a small part of it-There's a report on there from Dec 28, 2010 that says in September, earlier that year, he picked up a truck of 206 sugar gliders from a dealer nine hours from where he was. He did this in the back of a rented U-Haul truck. He only checked on the animals once when he stopped to get gas. Half were dead by the time he got home and half died within a week.

this is sick!!!!
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May 11 2012
04:34:43 PM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Yeah, that was mentioned in the old thread Shadow posted too.
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May 11 2012
04:51:28 PM
izabellahogmama Starting Member 5 Posts
oh sorry i didnt mean to repeat anything,must have missed that it was mentioned in the old post.

wow his youtube video of the ground squirrels is pretty bad ,there's like 15 of them in one cage and looking at the room there in is pretty nasty...
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May 11 2012
09:41:09 PM
BuzzAndJessie Glider GliderMap Visit BuzzAndJessie's Photo Album USA 152 Posts
Um...I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed, but the pictures that he posted seem to be of a suburban house...not an exotic shop.

Oh, and you can view all of his USDA inspection forms online. He received a citation for "Housekeeping" and uncleanly animal enclosures on his last inspection in January.

Error, missing URL. x
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May 11 2012
09:53:20 PM
BuzzAndJessie Glider GliderMap Visit BuzzAndJessie's Photo Album USA 152 Posts
Oh, and when most of this thread was taking place in 2010, he received 7 violations, mainly for sugar gliders, including:

not following a veterinarian approved diet for sugar gliders (2.40)
not having regular veterinarian care for his animals (2.40)
inadequate/inaccurate records of transactions for more than 246 animals (2.75)
incorrect handling of animals resulting in 206 sugar glider deaths (2.131)
space requirement violation for male sugar glider (1'x1'x1.5' enclosures) (3.128)
poor sanitation (3.131)
improper care in transit (3.140)
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May 12 2012
12:17:56 AM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Yes, I believe that he runs the business from his home. I was unaware of all of the violations, but I guess it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't made away Scott free for alot of it.
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May 12 2012
09:10:44 AM
stefaniey86 Super Glider GliderMap Visit stefaniey86's Photo Album USA 276 Posts
this man is trash....disgusting mill breeding trash, i read the past post......i have breeding gliders and mine do not look like the ones in those pictures, missing tail, fur, stained......that's a disgusting piece of work....breeder quality gliders my ass, more like abused, malnourished gliders
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May 12 2012
04:58:08 PM
izabellahogmama Starting Member 5 Posts
very true stefaniey86- those suggies were in horrible conditions,and the excuses he made up were just a crock.i dont trust anything he says,he needs to be shut down.there is only 2 story's on the petition,it needs to reach more people that were affected by this guy selling sick animals.it amazes me his has a so called license....the standard must be very low.
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May 14 2012
09:46:29 AM
KritterCare Face Hugger Visit KritterCare's Photo Album KritterCare's Journal USA 633 Posts
Well I got in touch with the one person I know that has been there. Here is what I sent her, followed by her reply.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hey I know this is going to sound wierd, seeing as how I do not know you personally, but I know you went to Even Keel Exotics to get your sugar glider and wanted to ask you a few questions.
There's alot of stories about his animals dying within weeks of getting home, is your baby doing ok?
Did you tour the facility at all? Were they clean? Did the animals seems healthy?
There is a petition going around to get his USDA license revoked/or get him shut down and you are the only person that I know that has personal experience with the man, so was curioius as to what you thought of everything.
Thanks, Sam

P.S. if you ever need help with your glider, or have questions please feel free to ask! I love talking gliders with people.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Oh hey you! Josh's friend right? Ummm yeah I can see why something like that would be going on. Little Vesper is ok, she's healthy and all, but she's far from friendly. I've been taking every step recomended by every sight I could find and she's still overly agressive. This means she was NOT handled correctly by the owner, I'm fairy positive I was the fist human to handle her at all. From all the reviews I've read it's VERY rare for a sugar glider to bite at all. And if they do, they rarely ever break skin. The first day I went to activly try to bond with vesper, she bit me at least 10-15 times, making me bleed pretty much every time, I had scabs on my hands for weeks lol. She's doing a litte better every day but I'm pretty much trying to tame a wild animal who has had no human contact what so ever before hand, and that's not how she should have been raised at all by a profesional breeder. As for how clean he was, lol he wasn't. Josh and I had to wait for him to get ther for a while and even from the outside the place was filthy. Ther were gross fish tankes and cages piled up out side this tiney little house. We allmost left just from that sight alone. And when we went in the oder alone almost knocks you off your feet. The smell of tons of diffrent animals piss was the only thing you could regester lol. The foyer was filthy, there were flies everywhere, in Vesper's cage, and some little baby turtles, there were paper fly traps every where covered, it was absolutly DISCUSTING. You couldn't see beyond the foyer, ther was this plastic curtan, and we wern't allowed to go past but from the smell you could only immagen, you know? I would compleetly suport his licence being taken away, the world horder to breeder would sute that place more.
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Even keel exotic breeder PETITION

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Even keel exotic breeder PETITION