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Sugar Gliders
Color Change
Color Change
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Dec 14 2008
02:16:45 PM
Do gliders ever just change color? My one female use to be pretty dark and now shes really light colored. Can anyone tell me why this might happen?
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Dec 14 2008
02:51:05 PM
Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy's Photo Album OH, USA 1624 Posts
I think (although I am NO expert) that could indicate a dietary problem.

How long have you had her? Did you get her as a joey or from a previous owner? What kind of diet is she on?
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Dec 14 2008
03:05:30 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts
Yes I got her as a joey. I have had her for about 8 months. She was just at the vet because she wasn't getting enough calcium. I feed her a frozen mix that I have a recipe for. Then she gets other fruits and veggies on the side.
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Dec 14 2008
03:21:10 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts
It is BML that i feed
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Dec 14 2008
03:49:17 PM
Gizzynator Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Gizzynator's Photo Album TX, USA 691 Posts




These are pictures of Gizzy. He came to me as a brown colored male and then started going grey on me.. Alot of people said it could've been a dietary thing.. That when i put him in on a better diet his fur olor changed..
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Dec 14 2008
03:54:18 PM
snusie Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit snusie's Photo Album snusie's Journal USA 2962 Posts
My new boys have really cinnamon-colored tummy fur. I was told that it was due to diet, they ate a lot of cereal and crackers, and baby food. As I get them on the same diet as Shikoni, I have noticed it's turning more cream-colored. Their fur was also rough and almost coarse, and that is changing to be more like his - shiny plush. The main question: does she look and act healthier or less healthy? Energy levels, curiosity, and that gleam in the eye -- better, worse or the same?
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Dec 14 2008
04:24:49 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts
She hasn't really changed. I wonder if it's because we feed her a lot of apples? Her fur is turning a white color. She still tries to attack my husband like she always has. I guess I can try changing her diet. What would you recommend that I try?
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Dec 14 2008
04:49:20 PM
Gizzynator Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Gizzynator's Photo Album TX, USA 691 Posts
i think BML is a good rehabilitation diet.
Health related
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Dec 14 2008
04:57:26 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Linzie, we observe that a lot of gliders get "lighter" as they get older. Sometimes darker colors are from pouch staining, scent glands (of course that goes away after neutering) and diet-related things.

Gizzynator, the brown or copper-colored splotches going away is a good thing. With any luck, your glider's top coat will be fully grey over time.

The belly should be cream-colored but scent glands on the chest of the male will cause some brownish tinting and so will secretions from the female's pouch.

Anyway, that splotchy brown coloring is indicative of a poor diet and usually an indication of low protein intake. So you putting Gizzy on a better diet seems to be doing the trick like others have suggested.

Our diet at LGRS is a high-protein one where we use bee pollen, egg, chicken, hamburger meat, turkey and some soy protein. Part of the diet is the high-protein soup we feed and the other part is a rotating compote of fruits, veggies, and animal-based proteins. We feed worms as treats on the side a few times a week.

About 60 or so rescues are on this diet and our 16 pets get the exact same thing.

Out of all the animals in our rescue, roughly 1/3 came in with that splotchy brown or copper color (especially around the rump area). In fact it is so common we call it:

"pellet diet brown"

This is from the "pellets and apples death diet" or trail mix or peanut butter sandwiches or something else that's not really healthful glider fare.

Although we are not big fans of the so-called BML diet because of the high iron content in the wheat germ (also check those baby foods for iron), it at least has more protein in it than a typical pellet and fruit diet, so that's why your glider is turning grey.

Kit: Famous Fox News Kit was Brown Now Grey

Some of you may have seen our little resuce "Kit" who was featured on the Fox News broadcast. Here is a picture of him (the brown one under the grey one) from this past May. The grey one is his new mate Suga who we paired him with before adopting him out just after the news broadcast.



Earlier this month Kit's new owner brought him by along with Suga for us to watch over the weekend while she was out of town. Today, Kit is the same, solid grey as Suga. That's because he has been on the same diet as Suga which is the LGRS high-protein diet. So Linzie when I say with any luck your little one will look just like Suga, that's what I mean.

And now a disclaimer for owners of "cinnamon" gliders

OK so before anyone says "hey I have a cinnamon glider and it's beautiful and there's nothing wrong with him, etc." OK OK OK so there are some non-standard colors. But for the most part, unless they are purposefully inbred for color, most mill-bred gliders you get at pet stores or trade shows or flea markets are just plain grey or silver colored.

Also, before you run out and pay extra for "cinnamon" colored gliders - buyer beware!!! They could just be that color from bad diet. So don't be suckered into paying a premium for a glider that just has a bad diet. If you feed it right, it just may turn grey...

And now our begging to not buy for color

(only tangentially related to Linzie's post)

Breeding gliders (or any other animal) for color is an exploitative and horrible practice so please don't support it. By not supporting it that means please do not pay premiums for a different-than-normal color. Non-standard color is a naturally occurring mutation or if it is a forced mutation it means, simply put: aggressive inbreeding.

Aggressive inbreeding creates health risk and death for the gliders who don't turn out and the ones that do often have poor health consequences such as enlarged organs and shorter life spans.

EVER WONDER WHY there are laws to keep us humans from inbreeding?

Cuz it ain't healthy.

Too bad those laws don't pertain to gliders. The rules of nature apply to both.

But the rules of GREED apply to both as well and that's why some breeders still do it and charge outrageous premiums for these poor animals.

This may sound like an anti-breeder sentiment but it's more of an Anti-Frankenstein sentiment. I mean we don't need people breeding more gliders let alone Frankensteining color out of them and killing them by aggressive inbreeding in the process.

Back to your gliders in this post

Gizzynator, you have a beautiful glider. PLEASE do NOT be disappointed that Gizzy is "GOING GREY ON YOU." That's not a bad thing. That's the animal's natural color if it is healthy. you will learn to love that color. It is what they are supposed to look like.

One last thing, color is not the only indication of health. You should observe changes in behavior, stool color, grooming, playing, activity, etc. and take your pet to the vet if you see drastic changes and of course at least once a year for a checkup.

Cheers, Ed @ LGRS

Edited by - LuckyGlider on Dec 14 2008 05:00:02 PM
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Dec 14 2008
05:12:11 PM
snusie Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit snusie's Photo Album snusie's Journal USA 2962 Posts
Thanks Ed! You make it seem so easy ...
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Dec 14 2008
05:56:21 PM
Gizzynator Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Gizzynator's Photo Album TX, USA 691 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyGlider

Gizzynator, the brown or copper-colored splotches going away is a good thing. With any luck, your glider's top coat will be fully grey over time.

ya it has. those pictures are a couple of months old. since then its now down to like 2 maybe 1 to a half inch spots. =]
edit to add: does that high protien diet help out alot? (i may wanna look into it..)

Edited by - Gizzynator on Dec 14 2008 05:58:42 PM
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Dec 14 2008
06:00:14 PM
suggieluv Super Glider GliderMap Visit suggieluv's Photo Album SC, USA 361 Posts
that happened to me with sweety, i paid 250.00 for her because she was SUPPOSED to be a cinnamon. about a year or so later i noticed she was turning more gray; she still has a very,very light cinnamon color to her. alot of people on here said it could've been diet related, regardless of her color i still love her and her name fits.
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Dec 14 2008
06:37:27 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts
I will take pictures and try to post them tonight.
Food, Diet
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Dec 14 2008
08:22:58 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Gizzynator, yes we have observed that higher-protein diets help. There are a lot of them out there. None have any real scientific proof. The LGRS diet has only anectdotal proof. We have observed an uptick in health and agility from all gliders who have used this diet. Our veterinarian refers people to us when they have questions on glider diet. She is a triple-degreed vet who is expert on sugar gliders and we have presented the diet to her and gotten good feedback on it.

Disclaimer

I am not interested in comparing our diet to all the others out there nor am I interested in getting a diet war going on this thread. But since there is an interest in high-protien diets, I will offer here what we feed. We are not pushing this on anyone and we have no commercial stake in this. It's just what we feed the 70+ animals here and it works and all the folks who adopt from us use it. It's up to you. You should always consult your vet first before changing a pet's diet. A good relationship with a qualified vet is really an important "ingredient" before accepting our advice. We are not asking for a diet posse roundup so please don't start one.

Background of LGRS diet

The LGRS diet is based loosely on the so-called HPW diet but we have made significant changes. The HPW diet uses the very expensive Passwell's High Protein Womberoo powder. A much cheaper alternative to that we found is the Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy Protein powder. You can get that at Trader Joe's. There may also be some other good substitutes, but we settled on that one. It is about one tenth the cost of the Womberoo. That said, the powder is only a tiny portion of the entire diet.

Our analysis showed that unless you go out of your way to ensure the proper calcium:phosphorus ratios were being taken care of on the compote side, the soup itself was lacking. But it was the diet, out of all of them from BML, Toronga Zoo, Healesville, PWL, etc. etc. etc. that our gliders responded well to. So over time, we made our own changes to it based on conferences with our vet and a lot of research. Notably, the compote side of the equation is where a lot of the protein is. After comitting to a few month's worth of soup per batch, the compote is the part that is easy to change each day to suit your gliders' weight and exercise regimen.

In our studies, we have read numerous university texts on the subject of metabolic uptake of possums. One thing most researchers and field workers agree with is that protein is not available to gliders in abundance year-round. Most of the time they subsist on nectars, sap, and pollen. It is only part of the year that insects are in ready supply and that's where a lot of their protein intake comes from. Not suprisingly it is those times of the year when gliders conceive and bear young. That is when protein is available. So it stands to reason when they are in captivity we should feed them protein year-round. Consider also that gliders only live three or four years in the wild, so we don't want to exactly mimic what they eat in the wild. If you want a pet that only lives for three years, get a hamster.

The LGRS high protein diet consists of two separate things: The soup and the compote. Here are some simple instructions...

LGRS High Protein Soup - part of a good diet for suggies

A batch of soup will last two or three gliders for months and one batch makes between 7 to 8 cups. You can freeze this in ice cube trays and pop them out one cube for each glider and let it thaw before serving.
Of course this all depends on the amount of waste your gliders create. Some gliders like to play with their food and this uses up more. Some gliders are very careful with their food and carefully consume it without making a mess or wasting any of it.

You will need a blender.

1. Start with two to three cups of papaya juice and orange juice. Naked brand "mighty mango" is good because it has papaya in it. (Papaya and Orange are good because they offset the upside-down CA:PH ratios of most fruits and veggies.)

2. Scramble 4 large eggs.

3. Blend the eggs, juice and 1/4 cup of High Protein soy powder (Trader Darwin's is our choice) but if you have the money you can use the Passwell High Protein Womberoo.

4. Blend in 32 oz. of low-fat plain yogurt.

5. In a dry blender or bullet, blend 2 tablespoons of granulated bee pollen and three tablespoons of dehydrated, powdered fly pupae. (You can get the dehydrated, powdered fly pupae from Oregon Feeder Insects www.oregonfeederinsects.com you can get bee pollen at BulkFoods.com www.bulkfoods.com )

6. Blend in to the mixture 1 1/2 cups of warmed-up FILTERED (not raw, not comb, not unfiltered) honey and then add the pollen/pupae mixture.

7. Optionally you can sneak in a few fruits and veggies they hate but that you want them to metablolize.

8. Check the consistency. It should be just less the thickness of an orange smoothie. If it is the thickness of a milk shake, add juice or water to thin it out.

You can pour the resulting "soup" into ice cube trays and then pop the frozen cubes into freezer bags for easier storage. You can also pour the soup into small plastic drink bottles. Use containers equal in size to two or three day's worth of soup - so you can move them from the freezer to the fridge in 2-3 day's worth of quantity.

LGRS Compote Part - part of a good diet for suggies

Rotate a variety of fruits and veggies along with some animal-based protein in your compote. For example, you can offer:

Monday: A mix of corn (small amt), raspberries, tomato along with some chopped turkey.
Tuesday: cooked, chopped hamburger (drained of fat) along with a plop of cottage cheese, peas and a slice of orange.
Wednesday: Chopped baked chicken, diced mango, carrot and blueberries
Thursday: Scrambled egg, brocolli, peas, and a peice of low fat cheese
Friday: Diced chicken, edamame beans, apple, and papaya (3x as much as beans)
Saturday: Chopped turkey, tomato, orange, corn (much less corn than the other stuff)
Sunday: Chopped hamburger (drained of fat), plop of yogurt, blackberry, melon

So long as you have a good balance, you can get real creative here. These are just examples. The clue here is to try to achieve a 2:1 Ca:Ph ratio. You can refer to the gliderpedia to look up ratios for just about any food:

http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/search.asp

Note also that dark leafy veggies like spinach for example are high in oxalates. Oxalitic acid binds to calcium and keeps it from being absorbed. So if the food is high in oxalates don't figure on it being any good in the calcium dept. You can still offer foods high in oxalates for their other ingredients.

The soup is already pretty balanced and since it is sweet most gliders are sure to eat it. But the compote is important because it offers variety.

You can also feed them "treats" two to three times a week. These would be yogurt drops (really candy so go easy on them), mealworms, and crickets.

Quantities

Each suggie should be offered two tablespoons of soup and two tablespoons of compote each night. It is OK to feed them more if they finish it so long as they are getting exercise. If you don't get them out of the cage, they will get fat on this diet. So you have to get them out of the cage and let them run around each night. Otherwise, you will need to cut back on the worms (high in fat) and cut back on the animal protein. There is still plenty of protein in the egg, the pollen, and the fly pupae.

About Pellets

Yes you can still put pellets in their cage as a staple. After you get them on this diet, they will probably just use the pellets to scrape their teeth on or throw at each other. Watch how those pellets just sit there after you start feeding them "real" food...

No Axe To Grind - No Posse Needed

LGRS has no axe to grind. We have no diet posse. Nor do we encourage one. There is no commercial tie-in linked to this diet and the sale of anything. It is just what we feed and it seems to work for us. Animals that come in malnourished and skinny and with ratty fur transform usually into perky, filled-out, shiny-furred, beautiful grey suggies within a few months. That's it. That's all the proof we have. The diet is based on basic diet principles, ratios, and common sense.

We don't have the money to get the diet into a university study. We looked into it. We need a grant for that. We are just a struggling rescue operation so we are not flush with all kinds of cash to run off and do scientific studies to prove anything to anyone just now. We spend thousands each month keeping the rescue running and the money just goes to operations right now. If someone wants to belly up with money to do a diet study, we will gladly take that money and put it to use. Otherwise, it won't happen.

We are not looking to start a diet war. If you like what you feed your animals and they are healthy and your vet says they are fine and to just keep feeding them what you are feeding them - that's fine with us. If you are part of someone's diet posse and you want to fight - ok you win and we forfeit the fight because we are too busy saving animals to fight with you. OK that's it - that's all the disclamers and "we don't want to fight with anyone over diet" rhetoric I can muster.

Cheers, Ed @ LGRS

P.S. Gizzynator and other folks who are kinda new to this don't think I am being paranoid about this diet thing. It has a tendency to get weird. All I can tell you is we use this and it works and we have healthier animals in our rescue than a lot of pets out there. Anyone is free to come visit us to find out. You can volunteer while you are here and clean cages and prepare and serve food for the suggies if you want to. You can interact with the animals in our play room. You can report your findings to others. We have an open door policy at LGRS and we love visitors.














Edited by - LuckyGlider on Dec 14 2008 09:13:52 PM
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Dec 14 2008
09:04:59 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Ed - thank you for sharing what you feed your gliders. We all know diet is such an issue...

Ed, you dont say how much honey you use. Do you mind letting us know that? Im sure some will be interested in making your "soup" and will need an exact recipe.

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Dec 14 2008
09:15:19 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
Sorry Rita, I just edited the post to include that... 1 1/2 cups.

Also we sometimes drizzle a little bit of honey on top of a plop of yogurt or cottage cheese when we feed those in the compote...
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Dec 14 2008
09:15:53 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Thank you!!!!
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Dec 14 2008
10:09:23 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts

this is before

that is after Im not sure you can see much of a difference.
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Dec 15 2008
10:13:26 AM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5266 Posts
I don't see much of a difference but regardless her fur looks good to me. Not a bad idea to get her a health check at the vet. Also go over her diet with your vet just to be sure.
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