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Tiko45 Joey  17 Posts It's amazing how fast you turn on your own if they don't "go" with the group. I don't see Catman being wrong in questioning the legitimacy of some people who are requesting help and support from a public forum. I could care less if someone rescues and are not licensed but why should others pitch in to help you with vet bills? If you want to do that, PM her privately and do it without the attention from the public. If you truly want to help rescue gliders and aren't doing it for attention then you should be giving monthly contributions to "LuckyGlider" who is in it 24/7 and is non-profit. I think it's sad when people only step up to help when it's some big hot topic and not the rescues who do this daily. DoubleBogey Fuzzy Wuzzy  USA 1244 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i> I would love to continue this conversation but we have an appointment @ Pediatric Endocrinology of Colorado near Denver and wont be back for a while.Feel free to keep calling me names if it makes you feel better :) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Regardless of whatever else is going on in this thread...which I am not really responding on - as a mother, I SINCERELY hope that the appointment with the Ped Endo goes well. Anytime a child has to go to a specialist - it gives my heart a jump. I hope that your child gets a great report and that all is well. Shorty_n_ClarasMama Face Hugger 914 Posts I wasn't going to say anything, but have now changed my mind. Lori has not asked for any monetary help AT ALL. People here have stepped up to offer help. So to try and say she is soliciting donations is not correct. On another note, I do not believe that Scott is being a "jerk" or a "troll." Sometimes when you work in legit rescues (not saying Lori, but you have some who are actually more like flippers or hoarders) you tend to be offensive and defensive when it comes to policies, plans of action, etc. You see so many things, and get first hand knowledge of the cost, drama, and pain that goes with it. I do not feel that he is being a jerk, or stirring the pot. I had a really bad (unrelated experience) and had someone come on and be a real jerk...and NO ONE had a problem with me being belittled. And I did not do a daggum thing wrong. While Lori isn't either, kicking Scott like this is really not okay. I do not know anyone on this forum personally, so I have no stake in standing up for/defending anyone. I'm just getting a little upset about how Scott is being made to be such a bad person esp when what was said to me was never seen in poor light. Scott, I pray that all goes well at the appt. That is a stresfful and heart churning thing to deal with, and "if"you are being a bit snappy...that may well play a part in it. Although, I did not see you being mean per se. Lori, thank you for all you are doing for those gliders. It may not be the ideal situation, but what had to be done was done, and the gliders will be better for it. Now...can we just have a group hug and move on? sjones5254 Goofy Gorillatoes SC, USA 2415 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Shorty_n_ClarasMama</i> <br />I wasn't going to say anything, but have now changed my mind. Lori has not asked for any monetary help AT ALL. People here have stepped up to offer help. So to try and say she is soliciting donations is not correct. On another note, I do not believe that Scott is being a "jerk" or a "troll." Sometimes when you work in legit rescues (not saying Lori, but you have some who are actually more like flippers or hoarders) you tend to be offensive and defensive when it comes to policies, plans of action, etc. You see so many things, and get first hand knowledge of the cost, drama, and pain that goes with it. I do not feel that he is being a jerk, or stirring the pot. I had a really bad (unrelated experience) and had someone come on and be a real jerk...and NO ONE had a problem with me being belittled. And I did not do a daggum thing wrong. While Lori isn't either, kicking Scott like this is really not okay. I do not know anyone on this forum personally, so I have no stake in standing up for/defending anyone. I'm just getting a little upset about how Scott is being made to be such a bad person esp when what was said to me was never seen in poor light. Scott, I pray that all goes well at the appt. That is a stresfful and heart churning thing to deal with, and "if"you are being a bit snappy...that may well play a part in it. Although, I did not see you being mean per se. Lori, thank you for all you are doing for those gliders. It may not be the ideal situation, but what had to be done was done, and the gliders will be better for it. Now...can we just have a group hug and move on? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I will have to argee one this one GROUP HUG  thefotokat Glider 177 Posts So many times "discussions" turn "difficult" when someone voices a view that is not in keeping with the group. That's what I see happening here. So I just want to say a few things that may help many of you see this whole situation from a different perspective. I've worked with animals in one capacity or another for over 20 years and I'v been doing sugar glider rescue for about 7 years now. While our 501(c)(3) functions to help all companion animals, our rescue and sanctuary focuses on sugar gliders. We receive referrals from many shelters, animal control officers and other animal welfare organizations. I volunteer for diasater animal response teams and I work diligently to educate animal owners. I don't post on forums much anymore for a variety of reasons, but I do try to keep up with rescue discussions. My perspective comes from the culmination of my experiences and interactions with animals, owners and government agencies. I just wanted to explain all of that for those who don't know me. Now for my thoughts: 1. Rescue means different things to each person. This means that we each enter a discussion with our own personal feelings. What some view as a rescue effort, others view as a rehome or a sale of animals. 2. Many people have helped animals in one way or another. Some do it because it's the right thing to do, some do it on an impulse/emotion and some do it just to brag. Motives are unique to humans. The animals don't care why you do it, but they are helpless to voice their opinion as to whether or not your actually helped them. I say this because I, in my capacity as a rescue and sanctuary, have responded to situations where someone "rescued" gliders only to have caused more harm to the animals. Their intentions were good, but they were simply not prepared. Most of the cases I'm thinking of involved large numbers of gliders. Now, the original owners of the gliders were not taking great care of them...they were in poor conditions. However, the "rescuer" did not offer conditions much better than that original home. So, the question is: what did they accomplish? Every rescue home I've worked with, sugar glider and other animal, has similar stories to share. 3. The majority of rescues and sanctuaries that I work with, do not advertise their work. I'm not talking about listing animals for adoption or sharing their stories. I'm referring to detailing how much trouble they went through, how much money they spent, how many vet visits they made, etc during the intake of animals. Why? Because it's simply part of the job. Operating a rescue and/or sanctuary is a choice and with it come many responsibilities. I compare "bragging" about how much money a rescue is costing to saying that you had to pay $300 to renew your professional license. It's not something to be congratulated for...it's a necessary part of your practice/occupation. 4. The rescue organizations I work with have policies. These policies outline how they function...everything from population limits to vet visits to shelter tours. Somewhere in those policies is usually a section dealing with solicitation of donations (cash or items) and press releases. For example, I require anyone who works for me to agree to a non-disclosure clause. They cannot speak on behalf of my rescue/sanctuary and cannot release any details about the animals/situation with which they're dealing. The reason for this is to eliminate any misinformation from being passed out. If the information didn't come from me (the Director/President), then it's not a representation of the organization. 5. Anytime you ask the public (or in the case on online forums: the members) for anything, you must be accountable to them. This means answering basic questions. Anyone has the right to ask for verification prior to making any type of donation. 6. Contracts usually mean squat. It takes time and money to enforce them. This does not mean that a rescue/sanctuary will not exercise their rights outlined in a contract, but it means it is costly and difficult...especially in an online world. The reason I've said all this is because I can easily see where so much frustration is coming from. We all love animals, therefore, we are passionate and let our emotions guide us...sometimes too much. For me, that's one indicator of how "serious" someone is about rescue work. When they are acting solely on emotions there's usually trouble ahead. Functioning rescues/sanctuaries have plans in place. This means we sometimes have to say no to assisting in a situation. This means we sometimes have to sacrifice the individual animals in order to save more from the same fate. It's incredibly difficult. In this situation, I see a lot of emotion. I don't know who was actually involved in it because I've seen several people mention that they've seen the gliders first hand or viewed the previous home. Some of these same people have asked the glider community for help. Do they represent the person who legally owns the gliders? If so, then this community was asked for donations. If they do not represent the person who legally owns the gliders, why was a statement not issued to correct that? Once help was asked for, people do have a right to question. Unfortunately, there are many people who solicit donations. Not all of them are truthful. If questions are not answered, suspicions abound. This community has been taken advantage of many times and people are much more proactive in speaking up. That doesn't make either party hateful, a turd, a jerk, mean or any of the other names used. Realize that there are many other people who just read who are asking the same questions. Until people can separate asking questions to which they are entitled answers from personal attacks, discussions will continue to become heated. It's been this way for years, and I doubt it will ever change. There's just too much anonymity in the online world so scams will continue, frustrations will go on and people will continue to get upset. Two last points I want to make: 1. Someone said that they didn't know you had to have a license to rescue. You don't have to have a license to help. You do have to follow all state and federal rules if you wish to operate as a rescue home or sanctuary. Same if you want to solicit donations. The paperwork is a huge, time consuming pain. I have a whole binder of applications and letters. Trust me, I wish it weren't necessary but here's the reason it is: to protect the animals. There have been situations where someone heard of gliders in a shelter and wanted to help. They went down to get them out and claimed they were a rescue. That shelter didn't ask for paperwork and the gliders left. The shelter later found out that the person was not a rescue. It caused a change in their policies so that no animal's would be released to any organization that was not a 501(c)(3). The outcome was that while those gliders were "rescued", others were euthanized because the shelter would not work with anyone who was not 501(c)(3). Working with animals for which you are not legal can result in seizure of all animals on your property followed by their euthanization. In short, you really do need to be legally able to operate as a rescue. 2. Someone else also said that some folks have seen so much in regards to scams and animals suffering that they tend to be tough in asking questions about "rescues". You're right. There are many situations that rescue homes and sanctuaries know about that the average owner does not. I, personally, have seen someone tell stories about their "rescue" they organized and get all sorts of cheers from other animal lovers. Unfortunately, what wasn't known was that the "rescuer" was actually hoarding. The animals were seized by local authorities. Would I have been called a turd or jerk for questioning that supposed rescuer when everyone else was applauding them? I wish we didn't have the knowledge we do. I wish the entire world was safe for puppies and kittens, but it's not. Dog fighters will still try to get dogs out of shelters to use for bait and hoarders will still keep hundreds of animals in filth all the while claiming they love them. As long as they are around, you'll have animal rescuers asking questions. Anyone who is truly committed to helping animals will not be offended because they will realize why they're being asked. When I first decided to start the rescue, I talked to a local wildlife rehabber. She was very discouraging and I thought she thought I was an idiot. I didn't let it stop me. I worked hard and developed policies. I thought ahead to what could happen and planned for it and I reviewed what had happened and learned from it. Two years later I talked to her again. She gave me a hug and said "good job". She had been following my efforts all along. Sometimes our critics are actually our biggest supporters. I really hope everyone reads my words and realizes that there is a reason why not everyone is simply saying good work in this case. It's not because anyone just wants to be mean and it actually is with the gliders' best interests in mind. sjones5254 Goofy Gorillatoes SC, USA 2415 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thefotokat</i> <br />So many times "discussions" turn "difficult" when someone voices a view that is not in keeping with the group. That's what I see happening here. So I just want to say a few things that may help many of you see this whole situation from a different perspective. I've worked with animals in one capacity or another for over 20 years and I'v been doing sugar glider rescue for about 7 years now. While our 501(c)(3) functions to help all companion animals, our rescue and sanctuary focuses on sugar gliders. We receive referrals from many shelters, animal control officers and other animal welfare organizations. I volunteer for diasater animal response teams and I work diligently to educate animal owners. I don't post on forums much anymore for a variety of reasons, but I do try to keep up with rescue discussions. My perspective comes from the culmination of my experiences and interactions with animals, owners and government agencies. I just wanted to explain all of that for those who don't know me. Now for my thoughts: 1. Rescue means different things to each person. This means that we each enter a discussion with our own personal feelings. What some view as a rescue effort, others view as a rehome or a sale of animals. 2. Many people have helped animals in one way or another. Some do it because it's the right thing to do, some do it on an impulse/emotion and some do it just to brag. Motives are unique to humans. The animals don't care why you do it, but they are helpless to voice their opinion as to whether or not your actually helped them. I say this because I, in my capacity as a rescue and sanctuary, have responded to situations where someone "rescued" gliders only to have caused more harm to the animals. Their intentions were good, but they were simply not prepared. Most of the cases I'm thinking of involved large numbers of gliders. Now, the original owners of the gliders were not taking great care of them...they were in poor conditions. However, the "rescuer" did not offer conditions much better than that original home. So, the question is: what did they accomplish? Every rescue home I've worked with, sugar glider and other animal, has similar stories to share. 3. The majority of rescues and sanctuaries that I work with, do not advertise their work. I'm not talking about listing animals for adoption or sharing their stories. I'm referring to detailing how much trouble they went through, how much money they spent, how many vet visits they made, etc during the intake of animals. Why? Because it's simply part of the job. Operating a rescue and/or sanctuary is a choice and with it come many responsibilities. I compare "bragging" about how much money a rescue is costing to saying that you had to pay $300 to renew your professional license. It's not something to be congratulated for...it's a necessary part of your practice/occupation. 4. The rescue organizations I work with have policies. These policies outline how they function...everything from population limits to vet visits to shelter tours. Somewhere in those policies is usually a section dealing with solicitation of donations (cash or items) and press releases. For example, I require anyone who works for me to agree to a non-disclosure clause. They cannot speak on behalf of my rescue/sanctuary and cannot release any details about the animals/situation with which they're dealing. The reason for this is to eliminate any misinformation from being passed out. If the information didn't come from me (the Director/President), then it's not a representation of the organization. 5. Anytime you ask the public (or in the case on online forums: the members) for anything, you must be accountable to them. This means answering basic questions. Anyone has the right to ask for verification prior to making any type of donation. 6. Contracts usually mean squat. It takes time and money to enforce them. This does not mean that a rescue/sanctuary will not exercise their rights outlined in a contract, but it means it is costly and difficult...especially in an online world. The reason I've said all this is because I can easily see where so much frustration is coming from. We all love animals, therefore, we are passionate and let our emotions guide us...sometimes too much. For me, that's one indicator of how "serious" someone is about rescue work. When they are acting solely on emotions there's usually trouble ahead. Functioning rescues/sanctuaries have plans in place. This means we sometimes have to say no to assisting in a situation. This means we sometimes have to sacrifice the individual animals in order to save more from the same fate. It's incredibly difficult. In this situation, I see a lot of emotion. I don't know who was actually involved in it because I've seen several people mention that they've seen the gliders first hand or viewed the previous home. Some of these same people have asked the glider community for help. Do they represent the person who legally owns the gliders? If so, then this community was asked for donations. If they do not represent the person who legally owns the gliders, why was a statement not issued to correct that? Once help was asked for, people do have a right to question. Unfortunately, there are many people who solicit donations. Not all of them are truthful. If questions are not answered, suspicions abound. This community has been taken advantage of many times and people are much more proactive in speaking up. That doesn't make either party hateful, a turd, a jerk, mean or any of the other names used. Realize that there are many other people who just read who are asking the same questions. Until people can separate asking questions to which they are entitled answers from personal attacks, discussions will continue to become heated. It's been this way for years, and I doubt it will ever change. There's just too much anonymity in the online world so scams will continue, frustrations will go on and people will continue to get upset. Two last points I want to make: 1. Someone said that they didn't know you had to have a license to rescue. You don't have to have a license to help. You do have to follow all state and federal rules if you wish to operate as a rescue home or sanctuary. Same if you want to solicit donations. The paperwork is a huge, time consuming pain. I have a whole binder of applications and letters. Trust me, I wish it weren't necessary but here's the reason it is: to protect the animals. There have been situations where someone heard of gliders in a shelter and wanted to help. They went down to get them out and claimed they were a rescue. That shelter didn't ask for paperwork and the gliders left. The shelter later found out that the person was not a rescue. It caused a change in their policies so that no animal's would be released to any organization that was not a 501(c)(3). The outcome was that while those gliders were "rescued", others were euthanized because the shelter would not work with anyone who was not 501(c)(3). Working with animals for which you are not legal can result in seizure of all animals on your property followed by their euthanization. In short, you really do need to be legally able to operate as a rescue. 2. Someone else also said that some folks have seen so much in regards to scams and animals suffering that they tend to be tough in asking questions about "rescues". You're right. There are many situations that rescue homes and sanctuaries know about that the average owner does not. I, personally, have seen someone tell stories about their "rescue" they organized and get all sorts of cheers from other animal lovers. Unfortunately, what wasn't known was that the "rescuer" was actually hoarding. The animals were seized by local authorities. Would I have been called a turd or jerk for questioning that supposed rescuer when everyone else was applauding them? I wish we didn't have the knowledge we do. I wish the entire world was safe for puppies and kittens, but it's not. Dog fighters will still try to get dogs out of shelters to use for bait and hoarders will still keep hundreds of animals in filth all the while claiming they love them. As long as they are around, you'll have animal rescuers asking questions. Anyone who is truly committed to helping animals will not be offended because they will realize why they're being asked. When I first decided to start the rescue, I talked to a local wildlife rehabber. She was very discouraging and I thought she thought I was an idiot. I didn't let it stop me. I worked hard and developed policies. I thought ahead to what could happen and planned for it and I reviewed what had happened and learned from it. Two years later I talked to her again. She gave me a hug and said "good job". She had been following my efforts all along. Sometimes our critics are actually our biggest supporters. I really hope everyone reads my words and realizes that there is a reason why not everyone is simply saying good work in this case. It's not because anyone just wants to be mean and it actually is with the gliders' best interests in mind. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Kate i just wanted to say thank you for all you do for the glider and to tell you Ed spoke very highly of you :) fazioli Face Hugger 906 Posts Here's a few points to make from Kate's comment. Kate you said "The majority of rescues and sanctuaries that I work with, do not advertise their work. I'm not talking about listing animals for adoption or sharing their stories. I'm referring to detailing how much trouble they went through, how much money they spent, how many vet visits they made, etc during the intake of animals." Well, some people are wanting to know these specific details before donating. Why should Lori have to disclose how much money she spent for the gliders, etc. when it does not even apply? There are certain things that she cannot disclose (such as the name of the ex-breeder) due to a pending investigation. Other things she does not need to disclose b/c that is her right. Do we really need to know how much she spent for the gliders? No. Secondly, Lori has NOT asked for donations herself. Nor has she asked others to solicit donations on her behalf. Therefore, I feel she does not need to disclose anything. If someone feels like donating, they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. I understand that some donations could be scams, but again, Lori did NOT ask for donations herself. If there are people that are worried that it is a scam, then just don't donate. People have the right to or not to donate. I think most people that are asking these questions are just being too nosey. TheHomermomma Fuzzy Wuzzy 1332 Posts Thefotokat, I really appreciate your post. First, I am the legal owner of these gliders. I am not, nor did I ever portray my self as, a 501c. I did not ask for donations. There was one post where I mentioned donations only because I had been contacted by forum members about how to donate. I was looking for adoptive homes...not donations. I am a dog trainer and have been involved in rescue in one form or another under contract by animal control, the Humane Society, MacDill AFB, police and private rescues. I am not disclosing the nuts and bolts of this situation because there IS an open investigation. I want to make it clear that I NEVER called anyone names, did not jump down anyone's throat or make assignations against anyone's character. I appreciate the support that I have gotten, but the only thing that I have ever said about Scott was that I respected and appreciated his work and that I know that it is one of the hardest jobs to do and I said in one post that he was being negative. I have said that I have no problems with the questions. I have answered what am am able to answer and what I can't or have been asked not to reveal because of the investigation I have said that I can't answer. Amy1706 Super Glider  USA 252 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fazioli</i> <br />Here's a few points to make from Kate's comment. Kate you said "The majority of rescues and sanctuaries that I work with, do not advertise their work. I'm not talking about listing animals for adoption or sharing their stories. I'm referring to detailing how much trouble they went through, how much money they spent, how many vet visits they made, etc during the intake of animals." Well, some people are wanting to know these specific details before donating. Why should Lori have to disclose how much money she spent for the gliders, etc. when it does not even apply? There are certain things that she cannot disclose (such as the name of the ex-breeder) due to a pending investigation. Other things she does not need to disclose b/c that is her right. Do we really need to know how much she spent for the gliders? No. Secondly, Lori has NOT asked for donations herself. Nor has she asked others to solicit donations on her behalf. Therefore, I feel she does not need to disclose anything. If someone feels like donating, they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. I understand that some donations could be scams, but again, Lori did NOT ask for donations herself. If there are people that are worried that it is a scam, then just don't donate. People have the right to or not to donate. I think most people that are asking these questions are just being too nosey. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">  fazioli Face Hugger 906 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />Well said fotokat. Even if she didn't ask for it directly I think even accepting these donations without providing everyone with any Legit information is inexcusable. Most of us don't know you. For all we know you could have teamed up with a member telling them to start a thread asking for donations and never have rescued any gliders. I saw pictures but that doesn't really mean squat. I know your adamant on the fact that you didn't directly ask for anything but its just suspicious when all we have is your word and your receiving money from people you don't know. You did publicly announce that you were forking out your own money to help these gliders and you must of known that someone was going to suggest donating by saying what you did. So there's really no way to justify it. But don't get me wrong, I haven't lost sight of the fact that you did a honorable service by rescuing those poor guys. However, I really doubt you are doing this because I've been around for some time now and you seem like a genuine individual. But again, we don't know you personally so when it comes to accepting peoples hard earned money we need proof it's going to be spent on the gliders only. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> If you read her above comment, there are things she is absolutely not allowed to disclose b/c there is a pending investigation. Period.... So, if people are not satisfied with that answer, then they do not have to donate. Amy1706 Super Glider USA 252 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fazioli</i> <br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />Well said fotokat. Even if she didn't ask for it directly I think even accepting these donations without providing everyone with any Legit information is inexcusable. Most of us don't know you. For all we know you could have teamed up with a member telling them to start a thread asking for donations and never have rescued any gliders. I saw pictures but that doesn't really mean squat. I know your adamant on the fact that you didn't directly ask for anything but its just suspicious when all we have is your word and your receiving money from people you don't know. You did publicly announce that you were forking out your own money to help these gliders and you must of known that someone was going to suggest donating by saying what you did. So there's really no way to justify it. But don't get me wrong, I haven't lost sight of the fact that you did a honorable service by rescuing those poor guys. However, I really doubt you are doing this because I've been around for some time now and you seem like a genuine individual. But again, we don't know you personally so when it comes to accepting peoples hard earned money we need proof it's going to be spent on the gliders only. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> If you read her above comment, there are things she is absolutely not allowed to disclose b/c there is a pending investigation. Period.... So, if people are not satisfied with that answer, then they do not have to donate. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I begining to think you are the only person who is actually reading Lori's post
thefotokat Glider 177 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fazioli</i> <br />Here's a few points to make from Kate's comment. Kate you said "The majority of rescues and sanctuaries that I work with, do not advertise their work. I'm not talking about listing animals for adoption or sharing their stories. I'm referring to detailing how much trouble they went through, how much money they spent, how many vet visits they made, etc during the intake of animals." Well, some people are wanting to know these specific details before donating. Why should Lori have to disclose how much money she spent for the gliders, etc. when it does not even apply? There are certain things that she cannot disclose (such as the name of the ex-breeder) due to a pending investigation. Other things she does not need to disclose b/c that is her right. Do we really need to know how much she spent for the gliders? No. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Perhaps you're misunderstanding my remark. I'm saying that many rescue efforts are made which are never made public by the rescue home/sanctuary. I'm saying that those rescue organizations with which I work do not make public statements extolling their efforts simply because it is what they do. It is their chosen job. When you see articles about the humane societies rescuing an animal that suffered some horrendous abuse, the goal is to raise funds for that animal. The point of the press release is to solicit donations. Since Ed is the most active rescue on this board I'll use him as an example (hope that's OK, Ed). When you see him post, it is usually for educational purposes. I can't remember him posting about a "great glider rescue". My point is that the reason that I see for the thread was to ask for the community's help. In regards to not being able to release details due to an investigation, I've never had an agency tell me it's OK to release some details. The emails I receive asking for help all start with "this is a confidential matter". I'm always told I cannot release any details. Of course, that's just been my experience. I know of one rescue who was asked to leave a scene because she did release some info, so I'll have to ask some of the others I work with if they've ever been OK'd to release any info. I'll be interested in their answers. <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fazioli</i>Secondly, Lori has NOT asked for donations herself. Nor has she asked others to solicit donations on her behalf. Therefore, I feel she does not need to disclose anything. If someone feels like donating, they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. I understand that some donations could be scams, but again, Lori did NOT ask for donations herself. If there are people that are worried that it is a scam, then just don't donate. People have the right to or not to donate. I think most people that are asking these questions are just being too nosey. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I believe you're referring to my point about people representing a rescue organization. My point is that it's important for a rescue home/sanctuary to be clear in anything it makes public. That means clarifying who does and doesn't speak on their behalf. I realize that we cannot control the actions or words of anyone but ourselves, but we can be clear in saying someone does or does not speak for us. When I do post on a board, I post as me, an individual. If I am posting an official announcement from SESGRS or SECARES, I state I am doing so. I do not have others relay messages or make posts for me to avoid confusion. Also, I am governed by the laws of my state in regards to solicitation so I must be careful that the impression is never that someone is soliciting on my behalf. I am very protective of my rescue, sanctuary and non-profit status. I work extremely hard for them and I take my commitments to them seriously. Most rescues/sanctuaries I know of feel the same. That's why I was trying to explain how the situation may be viewed from a different perspective. People who have been on these boards for any length of time know all too well how appearances can be deceiving and many have donated or supported efforts/causes only to find out later things weren't as they seem. That is why so many questions are asked. I'm merely presenting some food for thought. misscarl Fuzzy Wuzzy  USA 1169 Posts even though lori did not <i>directly</i> ask for donations, she did mention donations in a post. she could have just pm'ed the people who were asking about donations and explained to them that way instead of publicly saying where donations could be made. also, even if she dd not ask for them, creating this huge to do about "the great glider rescue" was certainly a call to the community. she made multiple posts on the topic, said how she was going to be paying soo much money out of pocket for this rescue, kept all of us informed about how long and difficult the process was, how the gliders needed tons of vet care, even the name she coined for the rescue seems to catch everyone's attention and call the community to action. im not saying its wrong, i am just saying that she may not have said "give me donations" but she did make this into a huge deal and let everyone know it was going to be very expensive for her and out of her own pocket. my boyfriend compared it to how girls say "i look so fat today". they want their boyfriend/spouse to say "no baby you look great". they are not directly saying "tell me i look good", but they know what the outcome will be. i just never see this kind of support and community effort towards lucky glider rescue, and i think that is sad. they have tons of gliders who need homes (i believe over 60) and ed never asks for anything. he doesnt make a huge deal about what he does or talk about how expensive it is. so does that mean its not important? no. ed is licensed and has been doing this for a long time. i think it would be nice if we had such a call to action for Lucky glider. Taither Super Glider USA 247 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />That's not the point fazioli. If she's being malicious than she should be reported. And the only thing she can't disclose is the ex-breeders name and anything having to do with the investigation. She can and should inform everyone of her vets name, the amount spent on the gliders, and updates on how much she has received. But like I said before, I'm not accusing her of anything because I really doubt that's the case. It's just necessary that the general public is aware of what could be. These days, millions of scams like that occur. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Why does it matter to you how much is spent, and how much she received? She's a long time member of the forums and there's no reason to doubt someone who doesn't hide pretty much anything from us of any real importance. Why does it matter to you if she received x and spent y on the gliders? Are you going to be a whiny brat if she spent less than what she got, yet she STILL has to take care of said gliders? She wouldn't pocket your money for nonexistent gliders, and she has answered as many questions as she possibly can. What you're asking for is just obnoxious. That's like going into a Red Cross building, and asking them how much they spend on their work and how much they take in from donations. Then proceeding to say if they don't give you every bit of confidential information they have, you won't donate. You'll get a "There's the door, get out." and that is the same as this. You don't want to donate without information that doesn't apply to you, since you hold VERY little bearing on the situation she is in, then DON'T DONATE AND DROP IT. Every little bit helps, and you taking on like this just makes you out to be more selfish than caring about the gliders wellbeing. Amy1706 Super Glider USA 252 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Taither</i> <br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />That's not the point fazioli. If she's being malicious than she should be reported. And the only thing she can't disclose is the ex-breeders name and anything having to do with the investigation. She can and should inform everyone of her vets name, the amount spent on the gliders, and updates on how much she has received. But like I said before, I'm not accusing her of anything because I really doubt that's the case. It's just necessary that the general public is aware of what could be. These days, millions of scams like that occur. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Why does it matter to you how much is spent, and how much she received? She's a long time member of the forums and there's no reason to doubt someone who doesn't hide pretty much anything from us of any real importance. Why does it matter to you if she received x and spent y on the gliders? Are you going to be a whiny brat if she spent less than what she got, yet she STILL has to take care of said gliders? She wouldn't pocket your money for nonexistent gliders, and she has answered as many questions as she possibly can. What you're asking for is just obnoxious. That's like going into a Red Cross building, and asking them how much they spend on their work and how much they take in from donations. Then proceeding to say if they don't give you every bit of confidential information they have, you won't donate. You'll get a "There's the door, get out." and that is the same as this. You don't want to donate without information that doesn't apply to you, since you hold VERY little bearing on the situation she is in, then DON'T DONATE AND DROP IT. Every little bit helps, and you taking on like this just makes you out to be more selfish than caring about the gliders wellbeing. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I love what you said and could not agree more.....She I think was just telling everyone what she is going through to help these gliders that is why she called it the great rescue and posted about it. and futher more I have thought this through and I don't think it is anyones business how much money is spent and for what it is spent for I can promise you that people who rescue gliders will never earn money off of it there are just to many expenses there is no way, and she has already said more vet bills could be added to the list by a totally different vet and if you are not donating why do you care so much? What is the point? and how can you justify giving her a hard time when you have done nothing but just sat back and questioned her like this? YoungGun Face Hugger LA, USA 526 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Taither</i> <br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />That's not the point fazioli. If she's being malicious than she should be reported. And the only thing she can't disclose is the ex-breeders name and anything having to do with the investigation. She can and should inform everyone of her vets name, the amount spent on the gliders, and updates on how much she has received. But like I said before, I'm not accusing her of anything because I really doubt that's the case. It's just necessary that the general public is aware of what could be. These days, millions of scams like that occur. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Why does it matter to you how much is spent, and how much she received? She's a long time member of the forums and there's no reason to doubt someone who doesn't hide pretty much anything from us of any real importance. Why does it matter to you if she received x and spent y on the gliders? Are you going to be a whiny brat if she spent less than what she got, yet she STILL has to take care of said gliders? She wouldn't pocket your money for nonexistent gliders, and she has answered as many questions as she possibly can. What you're asking for is just obnoxious. That's like going into a Red Cross building, and asking them how much they spend on their work and how much they take in from donations. Then proceeding to say if they don't give you every bit of confidential information they have, you won't donate. You'll get a "There's the door, get out." and that is the same as this. You don't want to donate without information that doesn't apply to you, since you hold VERY little bearing on the situation she is in, then DON'T DONATE AND DROP IT. Every little bit helps, and you taking on like this just makes you out to be more selfish than caring about the gliders wellbeing. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Wow, you are dense. If you can't see that she's avoiding the questions that's your problem. Maybe she has a good explanation for it all but until than she should not even accept donations.If you were donating money to a good cause wouldn't you want proof it's a good cause instead of assuming it's legit. Your letting your emotions cloud your common sense. I'll say it again. The requested information(besides who the breeder is) has NOTHING to do with the investigation. It's a little sketchy because she won't answer some questions that should have been answered from the getgo. The reason I am getting involved is because I'm trying to shed light on some aspects of this situation that some people aren't seeing. Btw, that was the dumbest analogy I've ever heard. How does Lori and the red cross even compare? TheHomermomma Fuzzy Wuzzy 1332 Posts <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Taither</i> <br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Younggun</i> <br />That's not the point fazioli. If she's being malicious than she should be reported. And the only thing she can't disclose is the ex-breeders name and anything having to do with the investigation. She can and should inform everyone of her vets name, the amount spent on the gliders, and updates on how much she has received. But like I said before, I'm not accusing her of anything because I really doubt that's the case. It's just necessary that the general public is aware of what could be. These days, millions of scams like that occur. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Why does it matter to you how much is spent, and how much she received? She's a long time member of the forums and there's no reason to doubt someone who doesn't hide pretty much anything from us of any real importance. Why does it matter to you if she received x and spent y on the gliders? Are you going to be a whiny brat if she spent less than what she got, yet she STILL has to take care of said gliders? She wouldn't pocket your money for nonexistent gliders, and she has answered as many questions as she possibly can. What you're asking for is just obnoxious. That's like going into a Red Cross building, and asking them how much they spend on their work and how much they take in from donations. Then proceeding to say if they don't give you every bit of confidential information they have, you won't donate. You'll get a "There's the door, get out." and that is the same as this. You don't want to donate without information that doesn't apply to you, since you hold VERY little bearing on the situation she is in, then DON'T DONATE AND DROP IT. Every little bit helps, and you taking on like this just makes you out to be more selfish than caring about the gliders wellbeing. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Wow, you are dense. If you can't see that she's avoiding the questions that's your problem. Maybe she has a good explanation for it all but until than she should not even accept donations.If you were donating money to a good cause wouldn't you want proof it's a good cause instead of assuming it's legit. Your letting your emotions cloud your common sense. I'll say it again. The requested information(besides who the breeder is) has NOTHING to do with the investigation. It's a little sketchy because she won't answer some questions that should have been answered from the getgo. The reason I am getting involved is because I'm trying to shed light on some aspects of this situation that some people aren't seeing. Btw, that was the dumbest analogy I've ever heard. How does Lori and the red cross even compare? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Please tell me what questions I have not answered. I disclosed how much I have received in donations...which I did not have to do. I have told you what my VET expenses are so far and I did not have to do that. I have disclosed that it was 20 gliders...in fact it was posted on my website with descriptions of each one. Again, I am NOT nor have I ever pretended to be a 501c. I do not have to be. So what exactly have I not disclosed? It is also very telling I haven't had one complaint from anyone who DID donate. Everyone who is upset about this doesn't even have a dog in the fight. I am very sorry that this has created this kind of controversy but there is no rule against any of the postings that I have made and I will not apologize when I have done nothing wrong. Also, I don't know where the price of $200 came from. I have not quoted ANY adoption fees at all. I have told prospective adopters what I paid for that individual glider and then told them to tell me what they could pay.
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