<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Sugar gliders have been used in laboratory animal medicine as models of serotonin-deficiency depression. To clinically depress a sugar glider, the researchers found one only has to house them as single animals. Many of our pet gliders are solitary. And unfortunately, because they were removed from glider families prior to puberty, they do not know how to properly integrate into glider society. Gliders should not be housed as solitary animals.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is from <u>Practical Marsupial Medicine</u>, by Cathy A. Johnson-Delaney, DVM, Dipl ABVP.

It is a fascinating piece. But that one part jumped out at me. They become so depressed being alone that they can be used in serotonin-deficiency studies.

I have just completely changed my position on solitary gliders. While I have in my contract that no glider will be kept as a solo glider, I've always viewed that as a personal preference, not mandatory for the total well-being of the glider.

If you want to read the entire piece,
http://www.aemv.org/Documents/2006_AEMV_proceedings_6.pdf

I wonder if that happens with every glider though? Maybe there's more to it? Like breaking up a bonded pair?

You can go ahead and test that theory! I'm not going to!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JeremyLexie</i>
<br />I wonder if that happens with every glider though? Maybe there's more to it? Like breaking up a bonded pair?
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Nope! This is something Dr Johnson-Delaney teaches when she does lectures. Gliders were put in solitary to drop seretonin levels to do tests to create drugs like Prozac and paxil. They didn't break up pairs, from what she has told me. They simply house them alone.

This is information I immediately tell people contacting me who want a single. I have heard many people say they believe their companionship will be enough. I disagree and will not adopt a single, even if they say they will get a mate later.

I have had my new baby for 3 days i spend about 3 hours every night, and most of my day with him.His name is cismo i absolutely love him, I was just reading your forum on single gliders i really hope that cismo doesnt get depressed . I am currently looking for a female friend for him. I Just canter afore one right away.

Well that was informative. Only hope mine doesnt go nuts becuase he was pulled to early/ rejected from his momma.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by miss and cismo</i>
<br />I have had my new baby for 3 days i spend about 3 hours every night, and most of my day with him.His name is cismo i absolutely love him, I was just reading your forum on single gliders i really hope that cismo doesnt get depressed . I am currently looking for a female friend for him. I Just canter afore one right away.
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You can try a local rescue in your area. Also petfinder.com as well as craigslist. Most rescues are very cheap

@Jeremy - NO! It has nothing to do with breaking up bonded pairs. I had Gizmo by himself for 3 months because a certain breeder said he would be fine as long as I spent lots of time with him, which I did.

Suddenly one day he was up during the day and you could just see the sadness and loneliness in his eyes. It was heartbreaking! He acted so bad that I really thought I was going to lose him.

I got Roo and put them together (didn't know about quarrantines either and of course, a certain breeder said it was OK to put them right together) and the next day he was back to his old actively crazy self again.

I wish people would wise up and ONLY sell them in pairs!

EDITED to add: I did not mean to make it look like I was yelling at you. I just don't want new owners or prospective owners to read this and thing that their situation may be the exception! It's not worth it to risk your glider's health.

Another thought...Gizmo has also shown signs of depression when something in my life has me down (for example when we unexpectedly lost my Dad in an accident last summer). However, his cage mate and my other pair had no symptoms so MY theory is that maybe once they have been depressed they are more likely to develop symptoms again. TOTALLY NOT WORTH IT!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy</i>
<br />
Suddenly one day he was up during the day and you could just see the sadness and loneliness in his eyes. It was heartbreaking! He acted so bad that I really thought I was going to lose him.

I got Roo and put them together (didn't know about quarrantines either and of course, a certain breeder said it was OK to put them right together) and the next day he was back to his old actively crazy self again.
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That is EXACTLY what happened with Chester! I had only had him a few weeks (but who know how long he was alone before I got him) and one day he wouldn't leave his wheel ALL DAY. I, too, thought he was going to die because it was so out of the norm. Thankfully, I had plans to get Dixie that night. I was so concerned I purposely skipped quarantine and.. the rest is history. LOL

VERY interesting article, Alden. Thank you so much for posting it. I'll be bookmarking this for future reference.

Doug -- see what I added when I edited and let me know if you have had any experience like that with Chester....

Thank you for posting this thread. It IS very interesting. I have bookmarked it and will read the entire article later when I have more time.

I honestly didn't notice much difference in Chester's personality when my grandma died last year. However, when she was in the hospital earlier in the year, he did seem to come to me and sit on my shoulder more often than he normally does. It's an interesting theory.

I agree with everything you posted... I'd sure like to see this get around. I often wondered why on earth a single glider would ever be sold to begin with. I think this should be a part of 'new glider owner info'.

My rescue Alvin lived alone for years. He was overgrooming big time, and once I got him on a better diet and got him a cagemate, he seemed really happy. Well, months back, he started overgrooming again, only coming out of his pouch to eat, etc. There were no changes in the home, with his cagemate, etc. So, I truly believe that since he had been alone for so many years and developed the overgrooming activity, that he just reverted back to that behavior. He is on oral Prozac now, and doing great. Long story short, I do believe as well that if they have been depressed before, that they are more prone to becoming depressed again. Hopefully all that makes sense! Thanks so much for sharing the article!

I really feel very "mind-blown" by this whole article. I personally do not sell single gliders. I always encourage people to get a second. But I've always assumed it is because of my own "over-personification" of the gliders. I don't like spending months alone, so I couldn't imagine they would.

When someone posts they have a single glider and they spend lots of time with it, I've always been on the fence. I mean - it isn't what I would do, but ... I'm not going to be a glider-Nazi and yell at them.

Well, I still am not going to be a glider-Nazi and yell at them. I'm going to continue to strongly encourage they get a cage-mate as soon as possible. The reality is, sometimes that takes a few months! But, I now understand it is very important that it happens as quickly as possible!

Ugh! I have a single boy right now! Itty is waiting to be neutered on the 22nd so that he can join the colony. Hurry up, 22nd!!

i wish i never woudl have bought zucker alone... but now hes bonded to me and every time ive tried to introduce him to kai he runs to me and crabbs like "mom...please save me i dont want to know him"...... and that just gets kai going and then kai wants to eat him. Im thinking once kai is all healed ill try and introduce them again WITHOUT me being there..... i have a feeling its me that makes zucker more resistant to other gliders because hes so bonded with me that he would rather just love me.. lol ill have to teach the boyfriend all the signs and sounds to watch out for and he can help introduce them with me just watching/listening from a distance.

I can definately tell he wants to be with someoene because he just looks so lonely and sad when i leave him at night but i definately think hes just never learnt how to get along and share with other gliders. my poor baby.

I have a solo little boy right now, but that is only because his companion is not ready to come home yet. The wonderful woman I got my little Aristotle from told me from the beginning that I would HAVE to get him a friend - and never even suggested that only having the individual was an option.
Ari is 10 weeks OOP right now, and his companion is currently just over 4 weeks OOP - which seemed pretty perfect actually. Ari is my first sugar baby and he is perfect. I'm glad that I had the chance to get used to being a Glider Mommy before I had 2 to care for. When it's time to bring my 2nd little boy home, you can be certain I will be on here asking for advice on the quarantine period and then re-introducing them. (They are coming from the same original home, but different parents.) I'm curious to see if that may make the transition easier than if I had gotten them from 2 completely different homes. I guess we'll have to wait and see. :)

This was actually on the first glider care guide I've ever read.

The 1st paragraph .... "Gliders are naturally very sociable animals, in the wild they would live in large groups of between 6 and 16 animals. In captivity however, many are kept on their own which leads to depression. When they are depressed, their
immune system is low and they are susceptible to illness. They will become
stressed which may then affect their mental health, this manifests itself in
repetitive behaviours such and repetitive back flips or over grooming. In
severe cases the glider may begin to self mutilate. Gliders have been proven
to suffer from serotonin deficient depression, in laboratories this is brought
about by simply housing a glider on its own.
Due to the fact people always want joeys as soon as they are weaned, a
single glider does not have chance to learn to live with other gliders, they are
then put in a strange cage, with a strange human owner all on their own.
Due to the lack of glider interaction, introduction later in life may make stress and problems worse. NEVER KEEP A GLIDER ON ITS OWN!!!!"

I struggle to understand how sooooo many people can say things like "I've been researching gliders for years and i've finally got ONE!!" *sigh* Ignorance is bliss .....

And as much as people say "I know they need to be in pairs but I just cant afford another one at the moment..." Why buy one in the 1st place if you can't cater for one of its BASIC needs.

Sorry, rant over x

I must also interject as my first glider was a lone glider for some time. I really truly believed I was all she needed. She grew so depressed that she stopped eating and her weight decreased dramatically. I am still embarrassed thinking about how my own pet had to starve themselves just so I would submit to getting her a friend. While I searched for a friend for her it was very traumatic having to watch her lay in one place all day looking down, never moving, and having no interest in food not even mealies.
<center> </center>
This was taken a few weeks after we got her a buddy, I had to get some gunk off of the mischievous little girl so I took her away for a moment and Luna instantly feel back into her depressed trance.

If mine are seperated for even a few minutes they go into some depressed trance aswell! It's scary to see how quickly it affects them, and how much! You will never understand unless you have two how much they really suffer without company of their own kind. No matter how much you love them it isn't the same x

We had two and lost one in October last year. It was heartbreaking to watch Andromeda, she seemed so lethargic and sad. Even though we missed our other little one, we knew for Andromeda's sake we had to start looking for friends. We found a college student who had two females that she was looking to rehome as she was graduating and going to travel (and her parents weren't interested in taking care of them). Andromeda immediately perked up when they were in the room, and showed great interest in them from her cage. Upon the first introduction, they all crawled into the same pouch in the bathtub and went to sleep!I had anticipated the intros taking a week or so, but after a few introductions, they all seemed more depressed when they had to go back to their own cages. So I slept downstairs when they first spent a whole night together, ready to break up a fight, but nothing ever happened, just playing! The rescues are much happier too as they have a MUCH bigger cage and LOTS more toys (they were in a PPP cage with just a wheel, heat rock, t-shirt, one rope perch and one hanging toy. They are almost always in the same pouch together. Only occassionally do I find them in other sleeping areas, like the barn, silo, tunnel, etc.

So I definitely agree that they should not be kept alone, even a human companion is no substitute for your own kind who can curl up with you and keep you warm and feeling safe while sleeping.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Helen88uk</i>
<br />If mine are seperated for even a few minutes they go into some depressed trance aswell! It's scary to see how quickly it affects them, and how much! You will never understand unless you have two how much they really suffer without company of their own kind. No matter how much you love them it isn't the same x
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I remember the day I took Chester to get neutered. When I got home from dropping him off, Dixie was just staring out of their pouch. She wouldn't even go in to sleep. She was definitely in a trance. She only went to sleep several hours later when I brought Chester home and she checked to make sure he was okay.

OK, being a glider owner for almost 7 years (and on some glider forums as long also), I have to have a temper tantrum right now and say the following:

1. Helen from the UK: SO SO SO agree with the point you made about people "claiming" they research gliders for months/weeks/years and then end their sentence by saying, "and I finally got ONE!" Clearly you have not done adequate research if one of the most basic principles regarding gliders (do NOT keep them as singles) has escaped your research efforts. Speaking of inadequate research....

2. When someone DOES do adequate research, they ALSO are BOUND to come across the fact that gliders can be expensive in their medical care and even regular upkeep. I mean thousands of dollars expensive. My motto (totally stole this from Jen, a fellow glider owner) is, "If you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet." Likewise, if you can't afford TWO gliders, you can't afford gliders. Period. I probably sound harsh and like such a meanie, but I'm not in this to be everyone's best friend - I'm here for the gliders, so when I see or hear someone say, "I can't afford another glider right now," I think to myself, "then you shouldn't have the first one because that means you can't afford the upkeep that a glider requires (having a friend being part of that upkeep), and that's completely unfair to the glider."

Are there a HANDFUL of gliders that truly do better on their own? I'm sure there are. Is that bizarre and a rarity considering their genetically programed to be colony animals? Yes.

People (and this is a general plea), PLEASE God do not gliders if you can't afford ANY AND ALL aspects of their physical and mental care and health! PLEEEEASE!!!!

I guess I should clarify I wondered if the doctors did that for the experiments, not not would a lone glider get depressed.

Hello everyone! Rukiya, been lurking for quite some time (this is my first post)doing research on Suggies to make sure I am the right thing for them. ( I have come to feel that I have to be right, not them. They are what they are...so am I willing to make sure that I can be what I need to be for them.) Anyhoo, after several months(10) of research and soul searching I have gotten on a waiting list! But after reading the study linked to here I have requested 2 instead of the one. I was told by a couple of breeders that one would do fine by itself ... apparently not! Thank you so much for making my learning process more complete by sharing your stories. I and my soon to be Suggie set greatly appreciate you.

my glider is alone right now, she has been for all her life. (4 months) (breeder told me shed be fine) but with further research im now getting another glider. the soonest, most affordable glider i can get will be ready in 3 months. Is that too long?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lilly</i>
<br />my glider is alone right now, she has been for all her life. (4 months) (breeder told me shed be fine) but with further research im now getting another glider. the soonest, most affordable glider i can get will be ready in 3 months. Is that too long?
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It is a little long but at least you have made plans and looked into getting her a friend. Luna was a little over 9 months by the time she got a buddy, so just keep a close eye, spend more time with her than normal, and keep the cage scenery exciting.

This is Batman when I first got him.




He was (according to my vet) about 2 years old and lived alone. Notice how huge his bald spot is and also the thinness of the fur around his tail. Yes, bad diet and not being neutered was also a contributor to the bad fur, and baldness BUT...

This is him now.




Catwoman when we first got her had been a solitary for 10 months to a year:



Catwoman now (and my current favorite picture of her):



Batman could hardly be bothered to play. He'd only come out to eat. Catwoman could hardly stop working out on her wheel. She would not let anyone cuddle her. And she liked to bite.

NOW, Batman can be seen in the wheel with her, or in the ball pit, and she actually chills for hours on end in her pouch alongside with him. It's like they balance each other out. He calms her down, she revitalizes him.

They still have a lot more healing to go through but I am SO glad that I discovered GG THE DAY we became glider parents. Otherwise, I would have made the mistake in thinking one was okay.

But truly, I don't like the idea of having just one of any animal, whether it's a dog, a cat, whatever. I imagine it gets boring not having someone to play with, someone who speaks your language. With only a few exceptions.

If you REALLY want only one solitary pet, get a betta fish.