<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i] What was wrong with the original HPW? Really? People didn't want to use it because it took a little time to make? So someone figured a way to cut down on time which may have changed things a bit. I don't know. Just speculating. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

HPW Plus has the same preparation time as the Original HPW. Same ingredients, it just doesn't use the WHPS.

Do all the HPWs have the same ingredients? I'm thinking probably not.

Thanks everyone! I actually found a lot of the answers to this thread very useful. Like I said before, I wasn't trying to "grasp at straws" to "discredit" anything. I just saw a change in my gliders behavior and when I found out others did too - AFTER feeding this particular diet - I wanted to see if it was just a coincidence or if it was something more. Turns out it happens to a lot of gliders. But not all gliders. I know it could be a number of things. Though I now wonder if HPW Complete contains an ingredient that upsets the digestive system of some gliders. Kind of like how a lot of people are allergic to peanuts, but not everyone. Or how a lot of people are lactose intolerant, but not everyone. I'm not even saying THAT'S it, but it could be. Anyway, I really do appreciate the feedback.

And for the record, the few times I've talked to/asked/got feedback from Peggy she was nothing but polite and respectful. So I was a little miffed that certain people were trying to make it sound like I was trying to get on her bad side or give her a bad reputation or whatever. I was asking a simple question. I know not everybody knows me, so maybe they shouldn't just assume what my intentions are and go flying off the handlebars for no good reason.

Thanks again, everyone! This thread has been quite informative!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />I never said the word "bashing" nor was I bashing. Your putting the wrong emotions into it. Good job twisting what I posted but I guess it's easy as it is nearly impossible to convey exactly what you want people to see and hear.

I'm very glad that all of you discuss all things Glider on here. I would never(not anymore) attack anyone for what they believe. I was stating my point of view with a bit of educated experiance to boot. We are all still learning and will continue to do so. Take it for what it is and not what you want it to be. Just so you know I do value and read all that is stated and I too have an opinion. No need to bash me for what you pecieved in my post :)

Keep up the good work Glider people. If it were not for us the Gliders would be in much worse shape.

Thank you :)
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I too feel as if your words bashed others that did not agree with you. Adding phrases like "not very logical" and the tone used by your posts are condescending in my opinion, and it seems others as well. Are the rest of us all reading you wrong or is it more likely that your communicating either poorly or in denial of your own actions?


It is well known that diet effects both behavior and skin/fur/hair health. It is also well known that some vets, some "nutrition experts" are simply out to make a profit with no real honest testing. I love what Peggy is doing and she is not just out to make money. Talking about diets is healthy and it can bring some great and factual information to the table to help her, and us all.


Your experience and opinion is no more or less than anyone else.

Thanks again Doug for posting this topic. Please keep us updated on any changes that your gliders have when switched to the new diet.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Omis n Kais g-ma</i>
<br />Do all the HPWs have the same ingredients? I'm thinking probably not.
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No Mam they do not....Original & the new Instant HPW are the only ones that contain the High Protein Wombaroo Powder.

@ Doug... I don't see anything wrong with your question. IMO it is NO different than when questions started getting asked about complications with the Blended Diet. Some peoples gliders had issues that they attributed to the diet, others had no problem with it.... the difference is, Candy didn't have the "support" of several other forums coming to her aid. As a matter of fact she was raked over the coals pretty badly....badly enough that she removed her diet from the forums AND her own personal website!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />Your putting the wrong emotions into it. Good job twisting what I posted but I guess it's easy as it is nearly impossible to convey exactly what you want people to see and hear.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmm. Seems that happens to you alot there Robert. People read what you write, get accused of twisting things and your the only one that sees any "twisting" of your words.

Perhaps you should consider how you type before hitting submit if you want people to understand you and not "twist" what you've said lol.

could it be food aggression issues taking place ???? Could one not be getting enough food ??

I feed my gliders HPW Complete and have never had any problems. BUT...I have to admit that I shake things up a couple of times a week by giving them something else to eat. And...I am a firm beliiever in giving them a hard crunchy food for dental health, so along with whatever they are eating - they also get a few pieces of Evo dog or cat food - which they love and always eat. No agression or health problems here.

Doug, I think this is a very good question and now others will watch their own gliders behavior. Bringing things out in the open for discussion will only do everyone good.

Hey guys...lets quit focusing on Robert. You are only adding to the problem by doing so. We are here to HELP gliders and we are all entitles to our questions and opinions.

I thought it might be food aggression, but I didn't feed any more or less compared to when I fed the HPW Original - or compared to what I'm feeding now while waiting for the LGRS. I never had these issues before and I'm not having them now.

boy oh boy i hope its not the HPW complete causing it.. i just ordered the big bag.. expecting it today :( haha

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kaylee21</i>
<br />boy oh boy i hope its not the HPW complete causing it.. i just ordered the big bag.. expecting it today :( haha
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Just remember....Doug by no means is saying COMPLETE CAUSES BEHAVIORAL ISSUES. He is saying he began having issues and began deducing what the problem could be...when he changed diet the issue stopped so for HIS gliders the food MAY have been the issue.

Many people feed it with no ill effects whatsoever so don't get frightened. As with any diet you would feed you will obviously watch your babies and make sure they are eating it properly. I'm sure if you begin having behavioral issues this thread may come back to mind, and may even be relevant but you may see no issues and be able to report that back to Doug as well.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Omis n Kais g-ma</i>
<br />Do all the HPWs have the same ingredients? I'm thinking probably not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No they do not. The Complete has powdered dried honey and dry egg product along with bee pollen. The Plus does not have those ingredients. The ingredients are listed here http://www.hpwplus.com/ingredients/ingredients.htm

The Original of course has very different ingredients because it uses Wombaroo powder ingredients found here: http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?WombarooHighProteinSupplement

The instant HPW from exotic nutrition is supposedly made with the Wombaroo powder and also has powdered dried honey and eggs along with bee pollen. The ingredients can be found here: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-6175796731380/instant.pdf

Awesome links Vicious!!!! Thank You!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dpatters28</i>
<br />I thought it might be food aggression, but I didn't feed any more or less compared to when I fed the HPW Original - or compared to what I'm feeding now while waiting for the LGRS. I never had these issues before and I'm not having them now.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just out of curiosity, Do you know that the Original HPW diet calls for 1.5 teaspoons of Original HPW per glider and HPW Complete diet calls for 1 Tablespoon of HPW Complete per glider? You're quoted response reads as if you feed/fed the same amount of both which would be incorrect and could contribute to your aggression issues when feeding.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dpatters28</i>
<br />I thought it might be food aggression, <b>but I didn't feed any more or less compared to when I fed the HPW Original - or compared to what I'm feeding now while waiting for the LGRS.</b> I never had these issues before and I'm not having them now.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you didn't feed more of the HPW complete than the HPW original than you were feeding your gliders a half serving of the HPW Complete. The Complete calls for a TABLEspoon each glider, the Original 1 1/2 TEAspoons per glider. So for the Origianl one tablespoon for a pair and the Complete would have been TWO tablespoons.

http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/t950-food-aggression This is a link that Peggy thought some of you may find interesting. It talks a little about food aggression and as you will see, not everyone with food aggressive gliders feeds Complete. It's just something that happens and we can't always explain it.

Another important thing that has been omitted is that Doug is feeding the original formula of HPW Complete. Peggy re-formulated the Complete to provide customers a little more for their money but Doug had already purchased quite a bit of the original back in July. There IS a difference between the first version and the one available now and I wasn't aware of that until tonight.

I also fed the original Complete and 2 of 4 of my cages did develop food aggression. But the aggression shown with my gliders happened in a matter of approximately 2 weeks, not almost 6 months. I went back to feeding Plus and in a little less than 1 week the aggression stopped. I'm still feeding Plus but plan to try the new Complete in the next couple of days to see what happens. I did contact Peggy when the problem was first experienced here and she suggested additional feeding stations which didn't work. She also suggested a little additional protein for my breeders as that was 1 cage with an issue. And she said to even try adding just a little more veggies. Like I said, none of that resolved the issue.

Doug-you know I love ya! I did ask you to contact Peggy about the issues you were seeing when you emailed me on 12/21. Why? Because if she isn't told about these things no one can look into it and see if the diet really is the problem. I also asked you to mention to her that you were feeding the first formula and also ask your friends who were having the same issues to do the same or at least see which one they were feeding. This could be part of the difference but I'm not the one that can answer that.

OT-I still have a bag of goodies for you here. Don't forget. :)

Do I need to dig out my articles on the correlation between Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex and behavioral issues in dogs and human infants? I'm not saying that is what it is, but if anyone would like to see the results, I can look for them. Or, how about articles describing the relationship between BHA, BHT and behavioral problems in children and lab animals?

I would like to see them khigh!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dpatters28</i>
<br />I thought it might be food aggression, but I didn't feed any more or less compared to when I fed the HPW Original - or compared to what I'm feeding now while waiting for the LGRS. I never had these issues before and I'm not having them now.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Doug,

Original HPW was to be fed 1 1/2 teaspoon per glider of the HPW. HPW Plus and HPW Complete the gliders are to get 1 Tablespoon per glider of the HPW Plus or HPW Complete.

I don't think you were feeding them enough of the staple diet and they were fighting over it.

Interesting Articles- fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/synthetic-antioxidants

www.processedfreeamerica.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=365&catid=1

www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/analysis-preservatives-pharmaceutical-products

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003267096004357

Error, missing URL. l

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pixie10</i>
<br />Interesting Articles- http://fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/synthetic-antioxidants
http://www.processedfreeamerica.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=365&catid=1

http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/analysis-preservatives-pharmaceutical-products
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003267096004357

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/26/15221.full
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

made the links clickable.

Thank You Katie!!

Well, I guess in my case it is possible that I wasn't feeding enough - which is what may have lead to the food aggression. Although! I do want to defend myself a little bit and say that I did feed HPW Complete at 1 TBSP. I also, however, fed HPW Original at 1 TBSP because I felt my guys were on the scrawny side (especially Chester after I rescued him) and wanted to beef them up a little bit, so I admittedly erred on the side of over-feeding. Still, maybe because of the watery consistency of the Complete they weren't getting as much. I'm man enough to admit it could have been an error on my part. But I don't regret posting this on the forum because that's what a forum is - a place to openly discuss ideas, concerns, etc. Thanks again to everyone who contributed.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dpatters28</i>
<br />Well, I guess in my case it is possible that I wasn't feeding enough - which is what may have lead to the food aggression. Although! I do want to defend myself a little bit and say that I did feed HPW Complete at 1 TBSP. I also, however, fed HPW Original at 1 TBSP because I felt my guys were on the scrawny side (especially Chester after I rescued him) and wanted to beef them up a little bit, so I admittedly erred on the side of over-feeding. Still, maybe because of the watery consistency of the Complete they weren't getting as much. I'm man enough to admit it could have been an error on my part. But I don't regret posting this on the forum because that's what a forum is - a place to openly discuss ideas, concerns, etc. Thanks again to everyone who contributed.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm glad that the problem may have been hopefully solved good Luck! And I didn't see a problem with ur concerns or question!

Doug,
No one who knows you believes that you were doing anything but asking for information. Every single diet out there has had people who have not been satisfied with something about it...gliders didn't eat it, ate too much, coat looked bad, etc. etc. etc.
I agree with you that some gliders do great on a diet that others do terrible on. I don't have answers any more than anyone else, but I'm glad that you posted. Open discussion of issues of any kind about gliders (when not hysterical and bashing) is a good thing. Whether it leads to fixing a problem or finding that there is no problem...discussion is a good thing.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TheHomermomma</i>
<br />Doug,
No one who knows you believes that you were doing anything but asking for information. Every single diet out there has had people who have not been satisfied with something about it...gliders didn't eat it, ate too much, coat looked bad, etc. etc. etc.
I agree with you that some gliders do great on a diet that others do terrible on. I don't have answers any more than anyone else, but I'm glad that you posted. Open discussion of issues of any kind about gliders (when not hysterical and bashing) is a good thing. Whether it leads to fixing a problem or finding that there is no problem...discussion is a good thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Agreed! ^^^

Even Peggy has commented that she doesn't feel you had any ill intention by posting. And I know you didn't. I don't doubt that she just wished it had been brought to her attention. :)