If you ate cheeseburgers all your life you would be passive too. The Complete is so much better for them that they become more active. Common sense and logic will tell you that behavoir like this is not likely to be food related(unless they are fighting over it ie: not enough food or doing the pecking order thing). If your Glider is becoming discolored it is most likely due to lack of cleaning and/or the Glider is becoming covered in the food.

All of my Gliders and all of the Gliders I have adopted out are on the HPW Complete. Not one issue at all with the diet. I have had mine on the diet for some time now and the only changes I have noticed are positive. They have become more active at night(more energy). Thier fur has become plusher/fluffy. The only negative thing I've noticed is that I have to trim their nails more often and this can only be related to a better diet. My wife is a Vet and she loves the diet that Peggy from Critter Love has created. As for the test results just ask any Vet about that. The answer will be to wait as it takes a long time to properly test a product and to divulge any of the results prematurely would be silly.

Hang in there and make sure you are feeding them a proper diet. Be vary warry of the other so-called aproved diets as none of them were ever properly tested by a Vet/scientific peer review.


:)

Well, Like I said I will be switching to the LGRS.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />If you ate cheeseburgers all your life you would be passive too. The Complete is so much better for them that they become more active. Common sense and logic will tell you that behavoir like this is not likely to be food related(unless they are fighting over it ie: not enough food or doing the pecking order thing). If your Glider is becoming discolored it is most likely due to lack of cleaning and/or the Glider is becoming covered in the food.

All of my Gliders and all of the Gliders I have adopted out are on the HPW Complete. Not one issue at all with the diet. I have had mine on the diet for some time now and the only changes I have noticed are positive. They have become more active at night(more energy). Thier fur has become plusher/fluffy. The only negative thing I've noticed is that I have to trim their nails more often and this can only be related to a better diet. My wife is a Vet and she loves the diet that Peggy from Critter Love has created. As for the test results just ask any Vet about that. The answer will be to wait as it takes a long time to properly test a product and to divulge any of the results prematurely would be silly.

Hang in there and make sure you are feeding them a proper diet. Be vary warry of the other so-called aproved diets as none of them were ever properly tested by a Vet/scientific peer review.


:)
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None of us can say if this is or is not diet related. It very well could/couldnt be related to diet. I for once get very, very crabby if my blood sugar spikes/plummets. So to say behavior cannot be tied to diet... wouldn't be correct. Trust me I know first hand.

As for the other diets they may not have been tested by vets, but the hpw complete and plus have almost nothing to be compared to. So what's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. Could effect each glider differently. What may effect yours in a positive way, could effect others in a negative way. All living creatures are different and everyone/thing absorbs nutrients differently. Idk what exactly she is testing/how she is testing. But I feel best results would be to compare it to gliders on other diets. I also feel that testing should be done from switching gliders from one approved diet to the complete/plus just to see if there is any change for better/worse. It could be tested and said to be a perfectly fine diet, but that doesn't mean its the best choice.

I'm glad Peggy is paying for testing, but we won't know actual results or possible side effects until (IMO) 10-15 years from now. I feel this way because testing for the next 5 years may not show anything, but over a gliders lifetime it could be possible for adverse effects to occur.

That being said, it could be a number of different things causing these issues, none of us can know for certain. Maybe they were fighting because they liked the diet so much that one was mad at the other for eating some of his half. Maybe it was some issue that glider had with the diet. Maybe some other conditions in the house/cage changed. We have no idea, but we can't rule out the diet just because it works great for some. Shoot, for all we know the boogie man could be bothering them?

If you have the money then I would suggest having bloodwork/testing done while on the diet, and then more bloodwork/testing done off of the diet. That would be the only way to know if it was diet related. But I'm sure most of us wouldn't do that, so as I said before... We will never know for sure.

For those who are using lgrs, where do you buy the ingrediants?

http://www.etsy.com/shop/viciousencounters?section_id=10607684

Really? Ok your answers are not very logical(not meant as a put down). Your willing to use an untested diet(tested by individuals not trained people in the industry), or one that was created by a non-educated creator, over one that is being tested properly? If there were any negative results so far in the testing it would have been brought out in the open. So your experiance overides a Vets, a Nutrionist, and other qualified people in the food industry? Ask your Vet for assistance and go with what they tell you, I did. This issue is most likely a behavoir problem not associated with any diet.

The HPW Plus and Complete are far supior to any other diet available. They are your Gliders and you can and will do what you think is in thier best intrest. Nothing wrong with that all. Just sit back, open up your mind, apply a little logic and not emotions, and see where that takes you.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />Really? Ok your answers are not very logical(not meant as a put down). Your willing to use an untested diet(tested by individuals not trained people in the industry), or one that was created by a non-educated creator, over one that is being tested properly? If there were any negative results so far in the testing it would have been brought out in the open. So your experiance overides a Vets, a Nutrionist, and other qualified people in the food industry? Ask your Vet for assistance and go with what they tell you, I did. This issue is most likely a behavoir problem not associated with any diet.

The HPW Plus and Complete are far supior to any other diet available. They are your Gliders and you can and will do what you think is in thier best intrest. Nothing wrong with that all. Just sit back, open up your mind, apply a little logic and not emotions, and see where that takes you.
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Ok, wait wait wait!!!! GliderGuy I think you may want to take your own advice on this one. Saying Plus & Complete are far superior to any other diet available needs to be followed by IN MY OPINION! Because I'm sorry, that's all it is...is YOUR opinion. I feed Original HPW and I doubt you could get Peggy herself to say it is inferior to the other 2. (And I'm sorry for even mentioning your name in this Peggy but it seems inevitable when the HPW's are discussed)

And the fact is that Ed & Gail do have the backing of their Vet for the LGRS Suggie Soup but they aren't selling a product so promoting that fact is irrelevent but they are more than willing to answer any questions addressed to them. And, I know for a FACT there are others that feed their own diets, that ARE working with Vets/Nutritionist...again, they are more than happy to discuss some things on PM if asked but they are waiting for the studies to be COMPLETED before they begin sharing it with the public.

Like it or not, in a way the Complete/Plus are simultaniously being "lab" tested by the creator but also being "trialed by fire" so to speak by being offered to the public BEFORE all testing is complete.

This thread was just meant to be a "questioning & discussion" but it seems that some people think if any of the HPW's are questioned that the creator is being personally attacked....I've said it before & I'm saying it again....THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!! So IN MY OPINION...You GliderGuy are the one bringing "emotion" into this otherwise civil discussion. (Not to be a critisism, just an observation)

If you are wanting your point to get across I think simply stating YOUR own experiences would suffice...I feed X and this is what I have observed instead of trying to make wild accusations and turn this into a diet bashing,...WHICH IT IS NOT!

I never said the word "bashing" nor was I bashing. Your putting the wrong emotions into it. Good job twisting what I posted but I guess it's easy as it is nearly impossible to convey exactly what you want people to see and hear.

I'm very glad that all of you discuss all things Glider on here. I would never(not anymore) attack anyone for what they believe. I was stating my point of view with a bit of educated experiance to boot. We are all still learning and will continue to do so. Take it for what it is and not what you want it to be. Just so you know I do value and read all that is stated and I too have an opinion. No need to bash me for what you pecieved in my post :)

Keep up the good work Glider people. If it were not for us the Gliders would be in much worse shape.

Thank you :)

Robert I feed ensure caltrate diet whatcha think about that?? The Glider tree gliders have been thriving on this diet for at least 16 years and mine for 2+ years. With the HPW diet I had a broken leg, thinning fur and other issues, I no longer have those issues!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />I never said the word "bashing" nor was I bashing. Your putting the wrong emotions into it. Good job twisting what I posted but I guess it's easy as it is nearly impossible to convey exactly what you want people to see and hear.

I'm very glad that all of you discuss all things Glider on here. I would never(not anymore) attack anyone for what they believe. I was stating my point of view with a bit of educated experiance to boot. We are all still learning and will continue to do so. Take it for what it is and not what you want it to be. Just so you know I do value and read all that is stated and I too have an opinion. No need to bash me for what you pecieved in my post :)

Keep up the good work Glider people. If it were not for us the Gliders would be in much worse shape.

Thank you :)
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I don't think she twisted anything. I think she is right. You started a shouting match in what was a civil discussion.

And I stand by my statement. I have read and re-read and I'm sorry, your post is the one that seems heated by emotion. You are using words such as FACTS and EDUCATED but again, not to sound rude but I've re-read your posts and I'm failing to see facts...if I'm overlooking something please enlighten me.

Feel free to post as many factual and back up links as you can find and I will take the time to read each and every one and educate myself. I've already done it, that's why I feed what I feed but I'm always up to learning more so if you have info. I am unaware of I'm all for it as I'm sure many others are.

I understand you have issue with Doug insinuating it may be diet that is having the negative affect on his gliders, although I have to admit I think if he were feeding BML, PML, or Vals Green Juice Diet, ect. ect.... and the issue came up he wouldn't be getting the backlash...but again, that's just MO.

I think all he was doing was asking...he switched and saw a notable difference...it's no different than when people switch from pellets to Complete & they see a difference...that's all fine and dandy as long as it's positive but if someone questions a possible negative then it's a witch hunt!

And although I'm not sure he'll post it, I have no doubt that after all of this Doug will probably switch back after some time and see if he again sees the same things he's noticed now just to ease his own mind.

I think the best thing everyone could do in this situation is take these concerns to Peggy herself,...heck that's what testing is for...to find the good & the bad and make modifications to fix any flaws.

I was just wondering if anyone has noticed these behavioral changes in sugar gliders being fed the HPW orginal diet?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Magdals</i>
<br />I was just wondering if anyone has noticed these behavioral changes in sugar gliders being fed the HPW orginal diet?
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I feed Original and have not experienced any negative effects so far.

i wonder why this is happening all of a sudden

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />If you ate cheeseburgers all your life you would be passive too. The Complete is so much better for them that they become more active. Common sense and logic will tell you that behavoir like this is not likely to be food related(unless they are fighting over it ie: not enough food or doing the pecking order thing). If your Glider is becoming discolored it is most likely due to lack of cleaning and/or the Glider is becoming covered in the food.

All of my Gliders and all of the Gliders I have adopted out are on the HPW Complete. Not one issue at all with the diet. I have had mine on the diet for some time now and the only changes I have noticed are positive. They have become more active at night(more energy). Thier fur has become plusher/fluffy. The only negative thing I've noticed is that I have to trim their nails more often and this can only be related to a better diet. My wife is a Vet and she loves the diet that Peggy from Critter Love has created. As for the test results just ask any Vet about that. The answer will be to wait as it takes a long time to properly test a product and to divulge any of the results prematurely would be silly.

Hang in there and make sure you are feeding them a proper diet. Be vary warry of the other so-called aproved diets as none of them were ever properly tested by a Vet/scientific peer review.


:)
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The portion of this post about discoloration of the fur is untrue. Many people that rescue gliders from an owner that fed a bad diet have experienced discoloration of the fur. Please refer to the post: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29199&whichpage=1
Yes, some gliders have yellow discoloration from not properly grooming, but there are other types of discoloration that are the direct result of a bad diet. I believe your comment about it being common sense and logic telling us that behavior like this is not likely to be food related, yes it can be. If people start feeding one diet and start to see a change in behavior, then change the diet, and no longer see the behavior, then yes I do believe it to be related to diet somehow.

Again, on the "proper" testing of anything, doesn't always ensure that the product is safe. We see this time and time again with products that have been tested and approved by the FDA, but in time are found to cause problems.

I apologize to Doug, I did not mean to get off topic here. Just wanted to point out a few things so if there are any newbies reading this that they will be informed as well.

I have one thing to say Fazioli, "AWESOME" !!!

Are they eating all of their food at night? (The people that are having issues with their gliders) If so, is it possible they aren't being fed enough and are having food aggression? If not, are you sure they're even eating the Complete? Just playing devil's advocate and making sure all the bases are covered. I have no clue if it is or isn't diet related.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fazioli</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />If you ate cheeseburgers all your life you would be passive too. The Complete is so much better for them that they become more active. Common sense and logic will tell you that behavoir like this is not likely to be food related(unless they are fighting over it ie: not enough food or doing the pecking order thing). If your Glider is becoming discolored it is most likely due to lack of cleaning and/or the Glider is becoming covered in the food.

All of my Gliders and all of the Gliders I have adopted out are on the HPW Complete. Not one issue at all with the diet. I have had mine on the diet for some time now and the only changes I have noticed are positive. They have become more active at night(more energy). Thier fur has become plusher/fluffy. The only negative thing I've noticed is that I have to trim their nails more often and this can only be related to a better diet. My wife is a Vet and she loves the diet that Peggy from Critter Love has created. As for the test results just ask any Vet about that. The answer will be to wait as it takes a long time to properly test a product and to divulge any of the results prematurely would be silly.

Hang in there and make sure you are feeding them a proper diet. Be vary warry of the other so-called aproved diets as none of them were ever properly tested by a Vet/scientific peer review.


:)
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The portion of this post about discoloration of the fur is untrue. Many people that rescue gliders from an owner that fed a bad diet have experienced discoloration of the fur. Please refer to the post: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29199&whichpage=1
Yes, some gliders have yellow discoloration from not properly grooming, but there are other types of discoloration that are the direct result of a bad diet. I believe your comment about it being common sense and logic telling us that behavior like this is not likely to be food related, yes it can be. If people start feeding one diet and start to see a change in behavior, then change the diet, and no longer see the behavior, then yes I do believe it to be related to diet somehow.

Again, on the "proper" testing of anything, doesn't always ensure that the product is safe. We see this time and time again with products that have been tested and approved by the FDA, but in time are found to cause problems.

I apologize to Doug, I did not mean to get off topic here. Just wanted to point out a few things so if there are any newbies reading this that they will be informed as well.
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I do apologize to Doug as well. Many times I read over what gliderguyva has to say on and I agree but I cannot agree with this post at all. It seems very bias and opinionated. Some of us have spent years here and we do know things that diet does such as discoloration, behavior change, and energy fluctuations. Many of the recognized diets have been made with a vet and reviewed by other vets. On this forum we also ask that everyone request their vets approval of a diet. Most of the recognized diets have also been around much longer than this diet which could only have a short term study done on it so far unlike the long term experience the community has with the other known diets.

Your comment does come off as if HP Complete is the only diet Vet approved and tested so therefore it must be superior but I know that this statement holds no validity. I also know that most of the other diets creators have regular blood panels done which is what is being done with the Complete diet as well, so what really is so different about it or the testing that would make you say that?

I'm feeding the original hpw I have not had any issues with this diet at all

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GliderGuyVa</i>
<br />Really? Ok your answers are not very logical(not meant as a put down). Your willing to use an untested diet(tested by individuals not trained people in the industry), or one that was created by a non-educated creator, over one that is being tested properly? If there were any negative results so far in the testing it would have been brought out in the open. So your experiance overides a Vets, a Nutrionist, and other qualified people in the food industry? Ask your Vet for assistance and go with what they tell you, I did. This issue is most likely a behavoir problem not associated with any diet.

The HPW Plus and Complete are far supior to any other diet available. They are your Gliders and you can and will do what you think is in thier best intrest. Nothing wrong with that all. Just sit back, open up your mind, apply a little logic and not emotions, and see where that takes you.
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Please explain to me why all of a sudden this is a insanely heated discussion no one said one diet was better then the rest from the op but theirs no reason to attack anyone Gliderguy im just using this post as an example not attacking you! but many vets do believe that LGRS is a great diet! because it provides extra vitamins and protien(insects)
anyways we shouldnt be attacking each other the original poster noticed a difference while they were on the complete and noticed a difference when he fed them baby food instead! This i believe was an fyi/hey has anyone else seen these types of changes? Informative post! not a lets all yell at each other while we belittle them!

Really?? I have to do a double eye-roll for this one.
Number one, Doug was just asking if anyone noticed a change in behavior while on the diet. If no one had spoken up, I'd shrug it off. But! Someone did speak up.
And if your cult leader went to bed. Why not call her /him up now and tell them to post or find out what is going on?
I only use LGRS so I don't know about this HPW complete and plus. What was wrong with the original HPW? Really? People didn't want to use it because it took a little time to make? So someone figured a way to cut down on time which may have changed things a bit. I don't know. Just speculating. Our boys have their little arguments and I am sure it is not due to their diet. It's because one wants on the bottom of the pouch and the other says no or one says get your butt out of my face and the other one says get your face out of my butt. Doug is not trying to grasp at a straw to discredit the diet. I didn't read that at all. <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />SERIOUSLY?????

You all have nothing better to do than to assume that diet is the reason for your gliders behavior towards another glider???? I think I've heard it all now!

Let me tell you all something....

I have 31 gliders (yes you read that right) which is 11 cages. ELEVEN CAGES=31 gliders. And NOT ONE of my 31 gliders act any differently towards their cage mates than they did before they started eating HPW Complete 9 months ago!

Does that mean that my gliders are exceptionally well behaved with their cage mates than yours are? NO. Does that mean that mine love each other more than yours do? NO. Does that mean mine don't have their little spats with each other? NO.

I cannot believe that some of you are so against a diet that you will grasp at any straw that you can find to discredit it!

There are plenty of diets out there that I don't agree with, but I don't go around making false accusations about them. I don't go running my mouth as to WHY I don't like them. But when it comes to something that I believe in wholeheartedly then YES I am going to defend it. Just as you guys would with your precious diets that you push!

And just so you know, my cult leader has went to bed for the evening and hasn't even seen this thread, so this is her follower giving my 2 cents!

How pathetic. Don't like it, don't feed it! Got questions/concerns? Go to the creator! PERIOD!
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />SERIOUSLY?????

You all have nothing better to do than to assume that diet is the reason for your gliders behavior towards another glider???? I think I've heard it all now!

Let me tell you all something....

I have 31 gliders (yes you read that right) which is 11 cages. ELEVEN CAGES=31 gliders. And NOT ONE of my 31 gliders act any differently towards their cage mates than they did before they started eating HPW Complete 9 months ago!

Does that mean that my gliders are exceptionally well behaved with their cage mates than yours are? NO. Does that mean that mine love each other more than yours do? NO. Does that mean mine don't have their little spats with each other? NO.

I cannot believe that some of you are so against a diet that you will grasp at any straw that you can find to discredit it!

There are plenty of diets out there that I don't agree with, but I don't go around making false accusations about them. I don't go running my mouth as to WHY I don't like them. But when it comes to something that I believe in wholeheartedly then YES I am going to defend it. Just as you guys would with your precious diets that you push!

And just so you know, my cult leader has went to bed for the evening and hasn't even seen this thread, so this is her follower giving my 2 cents!

How pathetic. Don't like it, don't feed it! Got questions/concerns? Go to the creator! PERIOD!
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why is this so unheard of bc you have 31 gliders and know all? This is what i mean by people attacking each other over a post! this is insane! take a step back and answer honestly! you dont think diet has anything to do with personality change really!! well let me tell you... youve never seen a person thats sick bc of certain food, or an animal? Perfect example When my grandmother eats chocolate she gets very nasty...when i eat it i break out in the same spot all the time...thats just one example When you eat fast food for three day morning noon and evening you feel blahh icky etc... when poeple with ADHA have sugar they become hyper and you honestly dont think that food doesnt have the same effect on animals! when i used to feed my dog regular food he used to get sick all the time the runs, vomiting etc. now i feed him probiotic yogurt and regular dog food mixed with pancraic powder however its spelt! and hes fine now but if it isnt mixed properly hell get sick! this happened about five years ago, but yes bc he has a stomach disorder now before he was fine! whose to say that there isnt something wrong with the gliders like the food isnt making their tummies feel good and are cranky bc they dont want to be bothered by one another bc they dont feel good. When chip was younger and i fed him HPW he'd get the runs now that hes older I feed the instant HPW from exoticnurtition and they are both fine! all i have to do is add water and blend this way their no issues or errors with the whole process of making it!

sorry about my spelling its horrible and we should have spell check lol

I wonder if gliders are anything like people and if they eat something that doesn't sit right with them if they just get a tummy ache and get all pissy? I know my daughter does. She eats something that doesn't agree with her and everybody better head for cover because she's fit to be tied. If you keep feeding what makes the tummy hurt, they'll keep acting that way. Just a shot in the dark. It's not like they can say Hey, dad/mom, that food you give me makes me sick and I want to kick everyone's butt.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Omis n Kais g-ma</i>
<br />I wonder if gliders are anything like people and if they eat something that doesn't sit right with them if they just get a tummy ache and get all pissy? I know my daughter does. She eats something that doesn't agree with her and everybody better head for cover because she's fit to be tied. If you keep feeding what makes the tummy hurt, they'll keep acting that way. Just a shot in the dark. It's not like they can say Hey, dad/mom, that food you give me makes me sick and I want to kick everyone's butt.
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excatly what i just wrote in fewer words thank you

Sorry Dd, I didn't see that. My bad.

no i appreciate that you did it in less words lol! i sometimes have to go the long way instead of the short way sometimes lol! thank you

Hey, diet can ruin a lot of good moods. Eat too much MSG and get a migraine, well some people. Other people on the other hand are not affected by it. Same thing goes with how some people can eat onions and not be affected by then or eat steak and not have high cholesterol. Everybody's different.

I know if I have a stomach ache, migraine, etc, I get very grumpy.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ToughCheeseSmallPaws</i>
<br />Hey, diet can ruin a lot of good moods. Eat too much MSG and get a migraine, well some people. Other people on the other hand are not affected by it. Same thing goes with how some people can eat onions and not be affected by then or eat steak and not have high cholesterol. Everybody's different.

I know if I have a stomach ache, migraine, etc, I get very grumpy.
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youre name is super cute lol!!!
i just thought of something else my boyfriends brother physically cant eat meat even as a child hed always throw it up theres certain things that dont mix well with poeple and animals! now i think weve all exhausted the topic however its spelt lol

Kylah,

I feed 3 tablespoons of both Fruits and Veggies. I'm sure to check to see if they eat their HPW complete and they do. I've sat up watching them for the past couple nights. Two dishes in the cage.

Mine have a little crab fest every night because they all want to get to the bowl first. LoL