Hi Everyone,

I'm a new mom... My husband and I fell prey to PP a little over a week ago and now that I look up sugar glider instead of "sugar bear" I"m trying frantically to fix everything.

The babies:
1) 2 females named Peaches (she is very crabby and shy so I say she's a peach) and Looloo (she is named because she loves to do loopty loos in her wheel)
2) Age: Babies I guess, PP claimed they were about 10 weeks old but had us put in a heat rock.
3) The setup: Starter cage (way too small but there are so many choices on cages and I'm not sure which ones are toxic or not... the ebay links on this forum don't have cages with the same names from what I see so I'm not sure which one to get) with heat rock and heat lamp. Two fleece blankets, two toys, one wheel (which is getting removed today as I just ordered a stealth wheel to replace the crap that PP sold me).

I really have a load of questions but I guess I'll start with food.

After reading all kinds of stuff we decided to use the LGRS Suggie Soup diet but I don't see any calcium or vitamin supplement mentioned. I have the "Glider Gravy" and Glide-A-Mins from PP. Do I need to get different vitamins? Do I need to give them a calcium supplement even though the recipe for LGRS Suggie Soup has us put in calcium fortified orange juice?

So then here comes the next item. I read that you have to keep their Calcium to Phosphorus ratio right so now I'm not sure what mixes of fruits and veggies to give and I'm afraid of throwing their little systems off balance. I only see a couple recipes recommended by on the LGRS page and that doesn't seem like alot of variety.

We are trying very hard to be good parents and there is so much conflicting information on the net that I feel like I'm just running in circles. I literally bought just about everything that PP had to offer except a bigger cage (which I'm trying to work on right now but I'm also not sure if their cage from PP is toxic .. especially since PP lied about everything else) and it looks like from what I've read that I need to get rid of all of it.

The babies seem to be doing ok right now - they don't have bald spots or inflammation anywhere, they play a lot in their cage in what looks like a normal way, and they appear to be eating and drinking and don't seem to be dehydrated.

Any help is TRULY appreciated.

Hi there!

So you're pretty much in my exact position, haha. I work at a pet store and saved my glider from there; he was also from Pocket Pets.

Toss the food & glide-a-mins you got from them after you get their new food. All my research says they're not good for them at all. :/

This page about the diet you chose might be helpful for you!

You'll also want to invest in meal worms .

Don't worry too much about not being a good parent -- since you're here looking for ways to fix it, you're already great parents.

EDIT: It's debatable, but I got rid of my heat rock after reading about how gliders love to chew thru the wires and electrocute themselves. :/

welcome to the forum and congratulation for your new babies ;)

Actually, heat rocks should not be used... There's the risk of electric shock, of burns, but even more the risk of dehydratation.
Gliders can maintain by themselves their own temperature, the only cases which can justify using a heating device (and yet, not a heat rock) are hospital cages for a sick glider, or very young joeys which have been rejected and are still hand fed (and yet in this case, it is still better to use body heat rather than a device whenever possible).

@emolga - Thank you for the pep talk along with the links. I had already found the LGRS diet one but it only lists a couple of recommended balanced fruit/veggie combinations... I was hoping to find a source for more balanced mixture recipes.

@sjusovare - Ok, so I will nix the heat rock. I'm assuming the heat lamp they had me place on top of the cage can go too.

quote:

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After reading all kinds of stuff we decided to use the LGRS Suggie Soup diet but I don't see any calcium or vitamin supplement mentioned. I have the "Glider Gravy" and Glide-A-Mins from PP. Do I need to get different vitamins? Do I need to give them a calcium supplement even though the recipe for LGRS Suggie Soup has us put in calcium fortified orange juice?

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From my understanding this isn't a diet that should be fed for long term daily feeding of a healthy normal weight glider.

It was designed to help underweight gliders gain weight then they were placed back on a normal staple. So you may actually want to go have a look at those other recipes for a regular staple diet that will have a specific calcium and vitamin supplement in the recipe. The Lgrs Suggie Soup is a temporary diet for rescues and underweight gliders not meant for long term use.

As for the ratio of fruits and veg, that sort of depends on what staple you end up using and what the directions say for that recipe. BML has one of the highest ratio's at something like 5:1 so it relies on the fruit and veg to bring that ratio down closer to 2:1 for the entire meal. The fruits and veg it requires are high phosphorous foods peas, corn, carrots, green beans, mellon cherries blueberries apples.

If you don't use BML the variety of fruits and veg isn't as restrictive because the staple is already close to the 2:1 ratio so it doesn't need balancing.

The ratio means calcium:phosphorous so you want 2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous. If the phosphorous number is higher than the calcium number then it has more phosphorous than calcium and vice versa. That is not to say you can't feed foods that don't have a 2:1 ratio... 2:1 is a magic number like a unicorn it's hard to find a perfect 2:1 ratio. The best you can do is follow the recipe precisely and follow the instructions for fruits and veg to be fed with it
.
Gliders bodies needs a ratio as close to 2:1 as you can get to properly allow the body to absorb the calcium it's taking in. To much phosphorous prevents the body from absorbing calcium.

If you want to feed something like corn that is really high phosphorous feed it with something higher in calcium like collard greens to balance out the not so great phosphorous food... I can explain this better if it doesn't make sense I just have a headache right now and it's not coming out right.

There is no debate about the heat lamp and heat rock, they just don't need it. If you live in a cold climate ad some extra fleece to their pouch that is all they need.

Welcome Klong. Try this page (other than reading of the various good diets in the gliderpedia) for a good overview on some recipes that our member here, Candy, has put together. It will help take out the guess work on ratios. Get them on one of the approved diets that doesn't make you overly concerned with the ratios so that you can take care of their other important needs. Once things settle in you can do more research on fine tuning with ratios if you like. http://www.gliderkids-diet.com/GliderKids-Feeding-Plan.html

Yep, definitely DO NOT put the heat rock in there. They can regulate their own temperature as warm blooded animals and they also have each other to cuddle with.

Make sure their wheel is truly glider safe. The PP wodent wheel is NOT. That along with a large cage will be your first expenses. The bigger, better and more sturdy the cage the better the investment in the long run. They don't need in between cage sizes. Powder coated metal is the best. Bar spacing should be no greater than 1/2 inch. 36"x24"x18" is the base size rule of thumb for two (I'm winging my numbers...but I think that's it.) Look at the cages on this site for reference. The Madagascar, Brisbane and Congo are popular and personally I can recommend them as well as this retailer. http://www.exoticnutrition.com/suglca.html

We can all work together on all of your questions as you go along. Just take a deep breath and start with first things first! We're all here to help and share in the glider experience!

Oh my. Leela and I have been at it again, today. We always seem to find the time to be typing and posting on top of each other! LOL It happens quite a lot...please don't think we're all here talking over each other!

Blue strikes again that's twice today ? lol

I am personally ok with both of you talking at the same time because you both gave me so much information!

The PP wheel is gone - I called my husband and made him remove it immediately... though he says poor Looloo is looking lost without her wheel. I suggested putting an extra toy or two in that space in the meantime to give them something else to do.

I also got him to remove the heat lamp... he's being stubborn about the heat rock but I will just remove it when I get home if he hasn't already.

Ok, so I'll go sniff around the links that blue has provided. Thank you both!!!

Update: death wheel, heat lamp, and heat rock are all gone. I got my new stealth wheel in the mail on Friday and the babies LOVE it!!! I also changed out toys to a fleece vine that they seem to prefer.

I've ordered a BIG cage and it should be here mid week.

During bonding time my husband offers the bonding pouch to the babies and one of them actually gets in on her own... I'm not sure which one because he can't tell them apart but I suspect they are taking turns. I've finally figured out how not to get bitten when the second one doesn't crawl into the pouch... little blankie over the baby and scoop her securely and quickly into the pouch.

Looloo has gotten adventurous and got on the outside of the cage the other day. We've been spending time with them given them yogurt off our fingers and now they are grabbing our fingers while licking it up and occasionally using our hands as part of their jungle gym.

So, there is only one problem. They are hardly eating. They are on LGRS suggie soup while I wait for the wombaroo protein in the mail. I don't think they are dehydrated because I see they are drinking from the water bottle. They eat their apple but don't really seem to like anything else. They have eaten the Suggie Soup significantly maybe two days. Some days they barely even touch the yogurt we offer during bonding. They nibbled on their carrots yesterday but I see that most of it was left behind (I diced it to make it easier for them to pick up).

Any suggestions?

No matter how nutritious a staple may be, if the gliders do not eat it they cannot benefit from it.

LGRS is not intended to be the full diet - you need to be offering a protein source, fruits and vegetables with it. Here are the full instructions which includes sample menus.

http://files.meetup.com/768852/LGRSSuggieSoup.pdf

It does take gliders a few days to adjust to a new staple or other change in their feeding plan so give them a little more time to see if they will eat more of it.

It you already have "Glider Gravy" you can mix that as directed on the package and use that as your staple instead of the LGRS Soup until your Wombaroo High Protein supplement arrives. Feed a wide variety of fruits and vegetables along with the Glider Gravy including some of the higher calcium veggies and fruits like dark green veggies, okra, bok choi or papaya at least a few times each week to provide additional calcium

If you are switching to another staple when the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement arrives they may take a few days to adjust to that as well.

Are you feeding them in the evening? Gliders generally eat several times during the night and most do not wake up during the daytime to eat anything. Limit your treats during the daytime to very small amounts, or use pieces of fruit that would otherwise be included in their nightly feeding so you do not reduce their appetite. They have very small stomachs so snacks offered in the afternoon my keep them from being hungry for dinner.

Yes, I feed them at night but after reading the comments here I think they are getting full on the apple in their pouch since we bond with them in the evening and the yogurt we give them afterwards while they play in their cage. I've been leaving pellets in there during the day because I'm not sure what else I should do. Should I put fresh fruits and vegetables in there during the day in case they wake up and want a snack? Granted they don't really wake up much from what I can see... unless I wake them up and then I stick them in the pouch with a piece of apple to snack on.

I have the glider gravy... I'll give them that instead while I wait on the wombaroo protein. It is what I was giving them when I first got them but they weren't very enthusiastic about it.

I have a giant fresh papaya, banana, mango, apple, orange for fresh fruits in the house right now. I have strawberries, blue berries, pineapple, papaya, mango, blackberries, and raspberries frozen. I buy frozen fruit without added sugar and I tend to buy fruit on sale and then freeze it. My hubby and I drink alot of homemade smoothies.

I have yellow squash, carrots, cucumber, and grape tomoatoes fresh and mixed veggies and a california mix (broccoli, carrots, cauliflower), and spinach frozen.

Do I need to cook the frozen veggies (I know I need to cook the mixed veggies but I wasn't sure about the others) if I give them some of those?

You do not need to cook any of the frozen vegetables. they thaw quickly and are nutritionally close to fresh veggies. I put my glider's plates in the cage a little before they wake up so everything is thawed and ready for them to eat when they get up each evening.

Thank you!!!! The glider gravy got them to eat their fruits and veggies the last couple of days and I've just got my wombaroo in the mail today!

For your viewing pleasure, here is a picture of my babies. And I have to correct a name... my husband let me know that Looloo is spelled Loulou. He named her so I supposed he can spell it which ever way he wants.