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Bml diet bad for your gliders
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Mar 01 2009
03:30:29 PM
myzoo52000 Super Glider GliderMap Visit myzoo52000's Photo Album VA, USA 258 Posts
I dont know but what I do know is that is does make them gain weight. I adopted one that was already sorta fat, then after taking another one to the vet, the vet said to use the BML so I started them all on that. Now all the others are starting to look like the other one that was already fat. Goodness. What to do, what not to do, it's all so dag on confussing whos to know what is really best.
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Mar 01 2009
04:14:32 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
I FIRMLY believe that BML was THE BEST diet available in it's time.

When gliders first entered the pet trade, ZERO research had been done on them, including their dietary needs. Bourbon was the first one who actually reached out to other glider owners, talked to anyone about bonding, or tried to make the lives of pet gliders better. I have tremendous respect for the ground work that she laid. I genuinely believe if not for Bourbon and those "first generation" glider slaves, not one of us would have gliders today.

I also believe, we've continued to learn and continue to learn. As gliders have become more common pets, they've been studied more. We do NOT know all there is to know. Maybe in another 10 years, we'll all look back at where we are now and think, "Gosh! What was I thinking!?"

Peggy developed the HPW diet together with one of the foremost (if not THE foremost) glider vets here in the States. He has studied in Australia, and has gliders as pets. He is one of the first vets to really research the care of pet gliders in the US. He himself will say he is still learning! But he's anxious to learn, because he LOVES gliders.

There are many reasons I feed HPW. Again - maybe as more research is done, I'll look back and see it is/was unhealthy. Maybe over time it will evolve. Maybe we'll continue to learn - and I sincerely hope so!

But for now, with absolutely NO disrespect intended for Bourbon, I think HPW is the best diet available for gliders. I haven't really looked into Priscilla's much, and I've heard excellent things from that.

I would encourage anyone who feeds BML to look into vitamins for BIRDS, and see about replacing the reptile vits with that ...
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Mar 01 2009
04:36:02 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
One thing I want to make clear is - if you are feeding BML and not feeding it exactly as it is written, you cant say you are feeding BML. This is exactly why we cant get many statitics on any one diet - no one is consistent.

There is one owner who posted recently on another forum that she has used BML for 7 years - and 4 of her gliders died at 7 years of age all with liver disease. Liver disease and high sugar intake are two concerns with BML. BML has been around long enough now for us to things like this. HPW has not been around long enough to do any studies.

This is another reason why is it so important to get a necropsy done on ALL deceased gliders to determine cause of death. There is an organizatin who has a database just for this.

Until we can come up with the money to fund a study of the different diets, there will be no way to know for certain.
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Mar 01 2009
05:02:32 PM
Linzie Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Linzie's Photo Album 437 Posts
I feed BML veggies and fruits every night. They don't get many treats unless I am having tent time and remember to get them or when I cut their nails. I don't understand where something that is bad for a human is going to be bad for an animal that has a different digestion process then we do. My gliders are not fat yet....it also has good healing properties from what I was told. We all have different opinions of diets and different ways of feeding/caring for our gliders in my opinion. I hope that I didn't offend anyone. If I did I am sorry and that was not my intention.
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Mar 01 2009
05:23:37 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Linzie, you didnt offend anyone. It's good to get things out in the open.

No one is bashing BML - that isnt waht this is all about.

Some people are saying they feed a particular diet when they really arent follwing that diet at all. For instance, if you are feeding BML and also giving another source of protein at the same time, you are giving to much protein - and NOT following the BML diet.

Sharing information regarding diets is actually a good thing. Altho we dont know it all and I really feel like we are pretty much flying by the seat of our pants when it comes to diet - there are some things we do know. One being to much of anything is not a good thing.
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Mar 01 2009
05:26:53 PM
THEHYLAND Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit THEHYLAND's Photo Album FL, USA 4774 Posts
Thats why I call mine a Modified BML, it's like it but it' isn't it.
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Mar 01 2009
09:23:34 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by THEHYLAND

Thats why I call mine a Modified BML, it's like it but it' isn't it.



Jerry, can you tell me exactly what that diet is again?



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Mar 01 2009
09:32:17 PM
Anonymous - 4 Posts
There is a post on GC where a woman fed her gliders BML their whole lives and they all died when they were 7 years old of liver disease.
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Mar 01 2009
09:39:53 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous

There is a post on GC where a woman fed her gliders BML their whole lives and they all died when they were 7 years old of liver disease.


Rita referred to that in her post. No one is certain why her gliders died, and other gliders have had liver disease when NOT fed BML. There are many many questions, and a diet study is in order. Is it the honey? Is it the reptile vitamins? Is it something else entirely? We simply don't know! But, I'd like to know!

However - there are many many MORE gliders who have lived much longer having only been fed BML. Bourbon's own glider, Baybe, for example.

Linzie - I really love a good discussion! I love when people can exchange opinions and facts and learn from one another without criticizing each other. I haven't seen any personal criticism here, just a healthy, active discussion. We all learn from one another's experiences. That's the main point of having a forum discussion! If we didn't have a forum to discuss, we'd each be in our own homes, reinventing the wheel!

If people get offended by the opinions of others, or alternative facts presented, then it is a shame. I am not offended! And I hope I'm not too offensive!
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Mar 01 2009
09:53:25 PM
Goldwinger Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Goldwinger's Photo Album Goldwinger's Journal VA, USA 1369 Posts
Exactly that's why we are all here. I know that I knew nothing when I came here and have learned alot and will continue to read and research as loong as I have these precious babies in my life. In 10 years all these diets will be different and the community and doctors will know more. Right now it is just a discussion so people can form their own choices.

There will always be one thing we agree on and that's when you need to take your babie's to the VET's.....lol
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Mar 01 2009
10:01:49 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
If anyone starts to get upset - please knw when I first started coming here you absolutely did NOT discuss diet without WW3 erupting. The fighting over diets was worse than awful.

At that time, if you fed anything other than BML - you were killing your gliders. Saying anything negative about BML was NOT tolerated. Now we have othere choices and can actually talk openly about them.

We have come a very long way in being able to discuss different diets and be civil about it. Communication is good.

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Mar 01 2009
10:07:16 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
I've seen people get SO OFFENDED - not so much here as on a different forum. They post something ... Like a picture of their galvanized wire glider cage ... and get SO ANGRY when they are told it isn't healthy. "I didn't come here to be bashed!" I've read that a thousand times.

Now - discussions about the health and safety of gliders can get rather heated, because we all love gliders. But, for the most part, I've only seen them get heated when someone is given good advice and then refuses to listen. "But, he doesn't lick the cage." or "He's been in that cage for 2 years and he's fine." Then I see people getting really emotional! Other than that - it is all a discussion!
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Mar 01 2009
10:14:18 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
And none of it is personal!
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Mar 01 2009
10:44:44 PM
Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy's Photo Album OH, USA 1624 Posts
I was given a recipe for BML (not sure if it was original or modified) by Sugar Glider 'R Us when I got my babies but they totally did not like it all. Now I am using 50% protein, 25% ea. fruits/veggies.

My biggest concern with this one now is that I have no way of knowing if one eats all of the protein and the other all the veggies and they split the fruit or any variation of that.
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Mar 01 2009
11:11:01 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Unless, we separate them at feeding time, I dont think any of us know exactly who is eating what...
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Mar 01 2009
11:23:18 PM
glider_mommy Face Hugger Visit glider_mommy's Photo Album AL, USA 931 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by Rita

quote:
Originally posted by THEHYLAND

Thats why I call mine a Modified BML, it's like it but it' isn't it.



Jerry, can you tell me exactly what that diet is again?







Oh RITA! You are a laugh riot woman! rofl
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Mar 01 2009
11:26:30 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Poor Jerry! I think I asked him that question about 4 times when he first started posting here. Must have had a senile moment or two!
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Mar 02 2009
05:00:21 AM
Jett Face Hugger GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Jett's Photo Album Jett's Journal Australia 681 Posts
quote:
Peggy developed the HPW diet together with one of the foremost (if not THE foremost) glider vets here in the States. He has studied in Australia, and has gliders as pets. He is one of the first vets to really research the care of pet gliders in the US. He himself will say he is still learning! But he's anxious to learn, because he LOVES gliders.

There are many reasons I feed HPW. Again - maybe as more research is done, I'll look back and see it is/was unhealthy. Maybe over time it will evolve. Maybe we'll continue to learn - and I sincerely hope so!

But for now, with absolutely NO disrespect intended for Bourbon, I think HPW is the best diet available for gliders. I haven't really looked into Priscilla's much, and I've heard excellent things from that.



I'm sorry but I dont think a vet is qualified to say what a sugar glider shoud eat when they have no knowledge of what a hind gut fermentor needs. Peggy is no expert and I knwo for a fact that some of the australian that she is talking to have no Glider knowledge but have alterior reasons for pushing there expertize. Anyone can say they are doing research and go to a university and can set up a web site and say that certain diets are teh best without really having any knowledge. I personally have challenged this contact as being accountable for passing on information that could be dangerous to the glider community, and passing themselves off as having some validity because they are a research student. Here in Australia an animal nutritionist helped to develope the origial leadbeaters diet along with vets.

Already there is evidence that HPW is causing health concerns. The Wombaroo mix is a protein suppliment not a calcium suppliment. The pollen content is so high that feacal floats done on gliders are showing eccess pollen that there tiny bodies cannot process. This has no validity as the best diet around and shouldn't be pushed as such.

BML was also only also developed as a kitchen diet. That is a diet mixed up in someones kitchen and much of it based on what their gliders would eat. It is not based on the Leadbeaters mix as stated but a very loose version of a nectar mix. The original leadbeaters mix doesnt have the baby food but a high protein baby sereal not avalibale in the states. There isn't any yogurt nor any apple juice. The evidence is still emerging of sugar Gliders dieing from liver and kidney failure that have been on this diet long term. Originally it was developed to boost a sick glider but was then pushed by Bourben as a proven diet till people started to question the so called research and background to this diet.

I hate the word proven for these diets as much evidence is arising of liver and kidney failures due to the high Iron content of BML. Hindleg paraylisis is also accuring for Gliders on HPW and some problems with processing the high amount of pollen. The pollen used in the Healesville sanctuary diet is just a few granuals once a week. I do like the Healesville sanctuary diet as they haven't seen any health related illness's in there glider for years. However I do not personally follow this diet religiously as my own research has led me in other directions however I do follow much of the diet. We are lucky enough to be bale to offer plenty of native blossoms, and have many of the igriedience avalibale to us.

I do use bird vitamins and bird calcium suppliments and mainly green vegtables and very little fruit. I also offer protein a couple of times a week but not every night. Only time will show of i'm getting it right but so far i have happy healthy Gliders and one wild sugar Glider in care that is also doing well on this diet.
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Mar 02 2009
01:35:04 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
Jett - please post the Leadbeaters mix, then.

When asked on another forum "Ok - our diets are bad. What are they fed in Australia" the answer from the Australians who post there was extremely complex and it was something completely NOT reproducible in the US. It is all very well to claim that everything we feed here is garbage.

But if you are going to do so, please offer realistic alternatives. It makes me feel desperate to be told what I'm feeding is harming my babies!

Edited by - valkyriemome on Mar 02 2009 05:48:35 PM
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Mar 02 2009
03:09:59 PM
davegerbil Face Hugger Visit davegerbil's Photo Album 406 Posts
I think any of the program diets is dangerous by itself. We use the Priscilla Diet because our furbutts wouldn't touch BML. They love the Priscilla, but we always include a second bowl of fresh fruits and veggies with a yogurt or applesauce "dressing" plus a chunk of something on the side for them to eat and play with [such as a slice of pear or a wedge of fresh pineapple]. I believe variety is the key. I sure wouldn't want to eat the same thing every day!
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Mar 02 2009
09:25:06 PM
newby Face Hugger Visit newby's Photo Album 527 Posts
I guess I'm just strange. I like the smell and the taste of BML. LOL. I also tend to not believe everything I hear about diets. Wether one is better than the other. I do know and trust a few diets out there but BML takes all the guess work out of the ratio's for me which is what I love about it. Its perfect for the lazy people like me who doesnt want to hurt my head thinking about the calcium to phospherous or what klind of fruits and veggies to give them. Its the same thing every night in my house. Has been for 2 years with no problems with their eating habits, excpet of course when the moon plays its role.
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Mar 03 2009
08:24:09 AM
Jett Face Hugger GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Jett's Photo Album Jett's Journal Australia 681 Posts
quote:
It is all very well to claim that everything we feed here is garbage.
I have never proclaimed everything that people feed is garbage. Fresh fruit and veg with added protein is a very good place to start. It's the procalmation that many diets become popular yet have no scientific or nutritional background that concerns me and yet people rave about how good they are. Yes we all should be concerned about what we are feeding our gliders and I make no apologies for that. Its seems that the evidence of gliders getting sick time and time again from these dieys yet that information is swept under the carpet.

This is the Healesville Sanctuary diet that was developed by an animal nutrtionistalong with the vets at the native animal Zoo,

HEALESVILLE SANCTUARY
DIET SHEET
SPECIES: SUGAR GLIDER: Petaurus breviceps
NATURAL DIET: Insects, pollen, nectar, sap, lerps.
AD LIB: Water.
DAILY DIET (per animal):
1 Dog chow/Advance.
6g Fruit, chopped (1tbspoon).
3 ml Nectar mix.*
1g Fly pupae (¼ tea spoon).
5g Corn (¼ thin slice).
2g Sprouted seed.*
2 Mealworms.

SUPPLEMENT: 5 Pollen grains – once per week.
3 Sultanas – 3-4 times per week.
2 Sunflower seeds – once per week.
1g Pet Health Food (small cube) – once per week.
1 Almonds - once per week.
Insects – 3-4 times per week (eg. moths).
Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available.


NECTAR MIX - To Make up:
Nectar Mix 2 Litres 4 Litres 6 Litres 8 Litres
Honey 700 ml 1.4 Litres 2.1 Litres 2.8 Litres
Hot Water 1.0 Litre 2.0 Litres 3.0 Litres 4.0 Litres
Eggs 3 6 9 12
Soluvet 20 g 40 g 60 g 80 g
Calcivet 20 ml 40 ml 60 ml 80 ml
Cold Water 250 ml 500 ml 750 ml 1.0 Litre
Cereal 70 g 140 g 210 g 280 g
Dissolve the honey in the hot water.
Blend together:
Eggs – hard boiled – shelled.
Soluvet
Calcivet
Cold water
Once blended, add mix to the honey and water, together with High
Protein Baby Cereal.
It is essential that the vitamin supplements are thoroughly mixed to ensure even
distribution throughout the mix.
This mix needs to be made fresh on a daily basis. Remaining contents of each day to
be discarded.
The mix can be made up last thing each afternoon and placed in the fridge.


Sprouted Seed Mix
Composition (as specified on Diet Sheet)
40 % Fine seed mix
40 % Wheat
10% Sunflower seed
10% Mung Beans
Method
1) Place required amount of seed into container, and cover with water and Aviclens
(5ml Aviclens to 10L of water).
2) Soak for 24 hours.
3) Then place the empty soaked seed into seedling trays to a maximum depth of 2cm
and rinse thoroughly using shower spray.
4) Place onto heat pad in Autumn, Winter and Spring until sprouted (usually 24
hours to 48 hours ) additional rinses may be required if conditions are particularly
dry.
5) When sprouted remove from seed trays and place in refrigerator.
6) Thoroughly clean all equipment. Scrub with detergent, then rinse in sodium
hypochlorite at (3ml/L of water).
Plastic lids will need to be used only when conditions are Dry and or Cold to maintain
warmth and humidity . Use in warm humid weather will promote mould growth,
please use own judgement.
Hygiene
1) Conditions required to sprout seeds are also ideal conditions for the propagation of
a wide range of fungus and moulds, some of which are highly toxic.
2) For this reason it is vitally important that all equipment is kept clean, scrubbing of
all equipment needs to be carried out at completion of every cycle.
3) If any mould is detected (black spots, grey filaments, mouldy odour), discard the
whole batch and clean trays thoroughly with sodium hypochlorite (3ml per litre of
water).
The Heat Pad
1) Use of the heat pad will need to be adjusted according to the conditions.
2) In autumn, winter and spring only turn the heat pad on at night.
3) Leave the heat pad off in summer unless the temperature falls below 13oC.
4) The seed raising mix should not get warmer than 23-25oC, as he heat pad raises
the temperature on the mix approximately 10oC above the ambient temperature it
not required at ambient temperatures above 15oC or it will promote growth of
contaminants.
Healesville Sanctuary Diets
August 2006 This document in under constant review and is modified continuously.
170
5) To assist with decision making a max/min thermometer should be kept at the seed
sprouting station.
6) Please refer to the adjacent sheet from the manufacturer for full instructions.

I do not use thsi diet but base much of whta I feed from this diet. The biggest problem I see with translating this in the states is the availablity of teh High protein babay cereal. I would substitute this with either rice flour which is done by roflmbo2 or grind up oats. The Cacivet and soulavet are bird vitamins and are readily available on line. The Health pet loaf is just a source of protein so any meat substitute would be fine like chicken, I make my own meatloaf and freeze it.
Acacias are easy to grow but these are an added bonus to the diet. The Gliders tend to suck the nectar but don't actully eat the blossums. Same goes for the eucalyptus they don't actually eat the leaves. they do eat the lerps found on the leaves. I cannot bring myself to the fly pupae but apparantly they are high in protein, still makes me sick.

Notice no apple juice nor yoghurt in this diet yet BML is ment to be closrly constructed from this nectar mix.
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Mar 03 2009
02:00:09 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
Jett- thanks. I am not arguing with you. I'd like you to look at this from the US pet owner point of view.

This does little but add to my frustration. We have people who won't feed much besides pellets, because they are looking for something easy.

A diet needs to be as simple as HPW or BML, but, apparently, better for the gliders. Otherwise the VAST majority of people are NOT going to feed it. Then, this mentions a nectar component which can't even be stored, but must be made fresh each night? People balk at making a staple food once a month then freezing it. How are they going to make one fresh each night?

Additionally, it mentions a heat pad. How is that any different than the heat rock recommended by certain mill breeders - which we have to preach and preach against using!?

We can not tell 90% of glider pet owners to completely scrap the BML, HPW, Pellet diets they are now feeding, and substitute this extremely time-consuming diet. It simply won't happen. The ingredients are not all readily available. The diet is complex and time-intensive.

Do you see the questions people ask now? About the comparatively MUCH simpler diets, such as BML and HPW? The questions can go on for DAYS.

Please - help us! To say that the BML and HPW diets cause health risks is alarming. But, glider pet owners in the US need a realistic substitute.

You criticize Peggy. Have you met Dr. Tristan? Are you familiar with his credentials? Is there harm in the body excreting nutrients it cannot use? I was under the opinion that this process is routine in humans and all (most?) other animals. Are you saying that Dr. Tristan's vet experience is "passed off"? What evidence do you have of this?

You say in this thread an "Australian Animal nutritionist" helped develop the Leadbeaters. However, in another thread, where I asked for the specific Leadbeaters mix, you downplayed it and said that Leadbeater developed the diet with "no nutritional knowlegde nor background to develop this nectar."

You say the Original Leadbeaters doesn't have apple juice - however all recipes I have found DO include the apple juice. Which is WHY I asked you for your recipe. Additionally it contains components "Not available in the states" - which doesn't really help us. I found another diet which contained ingredients not available in the states.

We need real help in this area. I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm asking real questions, and seeking real answers.

It does NOT HELP the glider pet owner to start a panic. To make someone suspect the food they are feeding and then not offer a realistic alternative is really quite cruel. Have you seen the discussions this topic raises? Have you witnessed the level of panic in many many glider owners here in the states? We've been told for 10 years that one thing, or actually a few things, were "the best" for our gliders, and now it is being knocked off the table with no substitute!

There is a panic. You only have to spend a few seconds at many of the forums to know that people are terrified that what they are feeding is killing their gliders. It seems to me that people can either calm the panic - because nothing better is currently available, and the general public does NOT need to panic while research is ongoing. Or, you can assuage the panic by offering realistic alternatives. Or, you can fan the flames of panic by saying You are killing your gliders, and offering no further help.
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Mar 03 2009
02:41:30 PM
tisha Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Visit tisha's Photo Album tisha's Journal OK, USA 2081 Posts
I haven't followed this thread religiously...I just tried to skim through quickly and yeah...I see the whole panic thing...I read one post and I start to hyperventilate and then I read another post and I start to calm down, then the next post gets me all nervous again!!! I feed BML just for the record. Oh sigh..I hope one day this all gets figured out...in the mean time...I will try not to panic.
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Mar 03 2009
03:11:02 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
I changed the vitamins to the liquid bird vitamins Jett mentioned above quite awhile ago as I always questioned why reptile vitamins were used for gliders. Calcivet and Soluvet are easy to find online. And you can get them on e-bay.

Diet.....<sigh> what can you say
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Mar 03 2009
03:39:29 PM
lovely1inred Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit lovely1inred's Photo Album 1144 Posts
OK...my take as a glider newbie...

I don't feed BML. Mainly because I don't agree with all the processed foods going into it, and I can't even find the "right" repcal and herpevite supplements at my petstore and don't want to deal with crappy customer service trying to get them to order what I need. I feed my girl the freshest things I can find, in different combinations every night, and watch what she eats. She's new to me, picky, and doesn't eat a lot of things. (I most certainly don't want to spend $30 on ingredients and the time mixing it up if she doesn't touch it). I'm sure I'm not doing the 100% correct ca:ph ratios, but seems to me anything I can get down her gullet is better than nothing. If I take away her pellets, she boycotts the whole meal. So I've left her pellets and keep offering her good fresh things. She's starting to come around but it's an ongoing uphill battle in that department.

Why do so many people feed BML? Because it's an easy thing to mix once you hae all the ingredients, and can be stored for the month, and can be told to a glider sitter on the weekend fairly simply, "one cube of this, a tablespoon of the veggie mix in the fridge" without too much worry that they will get it wrong. It has helped malnurished rescue gliders, as seen by a lot of the people on here that run rescues in the US. A newbie like me can put it together and know all the nutrition is in there and better than pellets and an apple slice.

The cons? Possible oversupplementation of vitamins, glider obesity, possible liver and kidney problems. Some gliders eat the mix for a while and then reject it. I personally think it is because a part of them instictively know when they've had too much of a good thing. That they can smell the "junk food" sugar aspect.

I don't think anything is wrong with anyone that feeds BML. We are all guessing, since no one in the US has acacia trees and kangaroos and the rest of Australia in their backyards. If BML or any of the other "mix" diets are doing harm, they sure are doing it WAY more slowly than a pellet and apple diet. I'd venture to guess that a glider's natural lifespan in the wild doesn't even come close to 15 years, and even at 7 you're beating the curve.

I think if/when gliders become more "mainstream" and less exotic (cuz that's where the trend is headed) that more research will be done for diet. Eventually there will be a market for glider food just like dog and cat food and big companies like Purina will do the research and see what the best foods are, like their claim of extending dogs' lives.
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Mar 03 2009
03:45:48 PM
valkyriemome Goofy Gorillatoes Visit valkyriemome's Photo Album USA 3479 Posts
Please check out this discussion for a very complete analysis on the ACTUAL amount of Pollen in the HPW. It is completely comparative to the Healsville diet, in fact.

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/377179/Bee_Pollen_Comparison_HPW_Diet#Post377179

I remember reading Ed's studies back in September 2007, and based on his analysis concluded, as he did, that the HPW was extremely close to the Healsville diet, and needed a very slight boost in calcium.

Do you find flaw with his research?

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387645/Healesville_Diet_Nutritional_A#Post387645

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387644/Update_HPW_Diet_Nutritional_An#Post387644

I sincerely want to discuss this. I want answers and solutions, and only by provoking thought and research can these be obtained!
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Mar 03 2009
06:37:16 PM
Anjlefire Glider Visit Anjlefire's Photo Album 111 Posts
Just wanted to add that Phoenix Worms are one type of fly larva.(from the soldier fly I think) I used to purchase them online, but, many pet stores now carry them as well. They are very high in calcium & low in phosphorus. The thing that interested me was that they contain Lauric Acid. Apparently Lauric Acid is a natural proven antimicrobial expecially effective against coccidia.

My hedgie LOVES them! I have tried (in vain) to get the gliders to like them, but, so far no go! I even rolled the worms around in mealie bedding to try & trick them. It worked ... but only until they got the first bite! Then there was lots of head shaking & paw shaking like they were trying to shake the bad taste out! lol!

Phoenix are such an incredibly great addition to their diet, (as an actual food source unlike the mealies which are more a treat than FOOD) I will keep trying though. Phoenix worm smoothie anyone??
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Mar 03 2009
09:08:44 PM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by valkyriemome




Additionally, it mentions a heat pad. How is that any different than the heat rock recommended by certain mill breeders - which we have to preach and preach against using!?



the heat pad is for sprouting seeds not gliders.

I actually buy my sprouted seeds from my local supermarket. No work in it for me which is great
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Mar 03 2009
09:17:21 PM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by valkyriemome

However - there are many many MORE gliders who have lived much longer having only been fed BML. Bourbon's own glider, Baybe, for example.



Not to go off track here too much, but there is a post in the archives of GG from Bourbon herself who actually says how long she has had gliders and when she got Babye. According to Bourbon's own post,calculations would only have Babye reaching 12 years old about now if she was still alive! Babye died two years ago so was just touching ten years of age and she was quite ill on and off for the last couple of years prior to that. Not a great role model for BML.

I'm not sure how her age got exagerated over the years but I'm at work at the moment and not in a position to hunt the archives, but if you want to look you can see this post from Bourbon yourself.



Bml diet bad for your gliders
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