quote:

---

Originally posted by valkyriemome

Please check out this discussion for a very complete analysis on the ACTUAL amount of Pollen in the HPW. It is completely comparative to the Healsville diet, in fact.

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/377179/Bee_Pollen_Comparison_HPW_Diet#Post377179

I remember reading Ed's studies back in September 2007, and based on his analysis concluded, as he did, that the HPW was extremely close to the Healsville diet, and needed a very slight boost in calcium.

Do you find flaw with his research?

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387645/Healesville_Diet_Nutritional_A#Post387645

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387644/Update_HPW_Diet_Nutritional_An#Post387644

I sincerely want to discuss this. I want answers and solutions, and only by provoking thought and research can these be obtained!

---

When Ed did this comparitive analysis, he was a fairly new glider owner and I am not sure what his qualifications were to be able to do this scientifically and correct. Does he have a background in this?

I never did finish checking his findings once I realized it was initially flawed by the pollen content of the Healesville diet. Healesville sanctuary feed approx 5 single granules per glider per week and that's it.
Ed made it 5 grains (as in measurement grains not actual granules). There is a big difference and I did inform Ed who as far as I'm aware did not alter this calculation in his "research".

Once I saw that, I didn't read it in depth any further so cannot tell you what else, if anything is flawed with his comparitive research.

I do believe however, there is very good reason for the Sanctuary to actually feed so little pollen in the sugar glider diet. I asked the sanctuary who confirmed the amount and said that that was enough for their sugar glider's nutritional needs.

Just to confirm something else along these lines too, many glider owners in the US, believe that Healeaville Sanctuary uses Wombaroo High Protein supplement in their sugar glider diets. They do feed some wombaroo supplements to their animals but they do not feed Wombaroo HPS to their gliders at all.

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=10942&whichpage=1

But this one says her glider was 5 in 2000:
http://www.sugarglider.com/archives/GliderGossip2/messages/356-Who+has+an+old+glider.asp

I can't seem to get the links to work on a lot of the archived posts for some reason.

Ed went back and redid his calculations - I'll have to find that. He emailed me.

It was not a significant difference in the pollen of the two.

And Australian diets use a High Protein baby food, not available in the US. As Jett stated - the HPW powder is for Protein, so I would think it would replace that ingredient in the diets, for those of us in the US.

Again - I am asking ... please don't pick apart the diets we can feed here in the US and encourage others to feed unless you can offer a reasonable substitute! Those of us not in Australia are anxious to find a suitable diet for our gliders. Having glider owners from Australia tell us that what we are doing is wrong without giving us something *right* is increasingly frustrating.

www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18437&whichpage=1

the link above is a topic where jett and ko point out the effects in the use of yogurt. i found it to be an interesting read and from then on ive been looking for new and better ways then the bml. granted this house still uses bml but as we are learning new paths it will eventually be pushed out the door. no real rush or panic about it.

bml and hpw is there as an attempt to be complete in the easiest mannor. but as we have all learned our little furry babies are no where near easy.. i doubt we will ever be able to replicate a sugar gliders complete and natural diet in our house hold kitchen (i no longer believe sugar gliders should be a house hold pet either). the diet jett posted can just be used as good guidlines and something to strive closer to (realisticly) for your lil fuzzie. an easy diet would be the poor dog with the same bowl of dog food for the rest of his life. i dont see sugar gliders diets getting easier and healthier and more life prolonging untill they are as domesticated as a dog or cat. and look at where that got the cat and dog.. homeless by the millions and worse mills then gliders. personally i think the complicated diets help keep the glider market stunted even if slightly. and who really wants a simple diet in the first place. if i get cancer from peanut butter then so be it! lmao.

not sure if any of that really made sense, just now getting off work and its been a long night. getting the midnight giggles a tad early tonight -.o perhaps ill type something more competent in the morning ha.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kyro298

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=10942&whichpage=1

But this one says her glider was 5 in 2000:
http://www.sugarglider.com/archives/GliderGossip2/messages/356-Who+has+an+old+glider.asp

I can't seem to get the links to work on a lot of the archived posts for some reason.

---

Try this
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/archives/messages/3296.htm

The first link you posted Kyro says that says Betsycc first got gliders and then Bourbon saw them and called them high priced hamsters but then later got gliders herself. Here is that post in question which verifies it.

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/archives/messages/3343.htm

So if Betsy got her gliders in approx Feb 1997 and Bourbon got Babye after Betsy's did then Betsy's post does back up Bourbon's post at the time for validity..... who knows why Bourbon said Babye was 5 in 2000.

quote:

---

Originally posted by valkyriemome

Ed went back and redid his calculations - I'll have to find that. He emailed me.

It was not a significant difference in the pollen of the two.

And Australian diets use a High Protein baby food, not available in the US. As Jett stated - the HPW powder is for Protein, so I would think it would replace that ingredient in the diets, for those of us in the US.

Again - I am asking ... please don't pick apart the diets we can feed here in the US and encourage others to feed unless you can offer a reasonable substitute! Those of us not in Australia are anxious to find a suitable diet for our gliders. Having glider owners from Australia tell us that what we are doing is wrong without giving us something *right* is increasingly frustrating.

---

Ed was still arguing the amount of pollen for a long time after he published the results of his presumably layman calculations so didn't think he changed the calculations any to reflect 5 pieces of pollen against the 5 grain measurement he originally used. I cannot remember he ever backing down on this in his posts as he insisted I had the measurements wrong and that even Healeaville had written it down wrong in their diet sheets. I must dig out the post where I stupidly counted out grains of pollen to prove my point that there was indeed a difference and where I actually asked the sanctuary for verification that I was indeed right.

It isn't difficult to replace the high protein cereal by adding some Wombaroo HPS as substitute so high protein cereal is not an issue.In most cases the US baby cereal is higher in protein than people realise or is that Australian high protein cereal has less protein than people realize.... ah well 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other

As for the apple juice, swap it for water, get rid of the yoghurt and baby food, reduce the honey and you have an australian nectar mix! It's not that difficult.Why anyone would think apple juice, yoghurt and baby food would replace high protein cereal in the nectar mix, I just don't know.

Apart from acacia/euc blossoms, what other things cannot be substituted?

quote:

---

Originally posted by valkyriemome



You say the Original Leadbeaters doesn't have apple juice - however all recipes I have found DO include the apple juice. Which is WHY I asked you for your recipe. Additionally it contains components "Not available in the states" - which doesn't really help us. I found another diet which contained ingredients not available in the states.

---

Ruth Rogers was the first person in the USA to get an Australian diet emailed to her. It was the Taronga zoo diet (which is based on the healesville diet) and it is she that made the first mods to the leadbeaters mix. She added the apple juice because as she said, her mother said something about empty calories and she felt the water in the nectar mix was empty calories. She replaced it with apple juice. That is the scientific reasoning behind that.

The other mods even Bourbon's was based on Ruth's mod leadbeaters and hence the reason apple juice became the norm rather than the original water in the diet.

Also I have never said abandon BML..I said make the much needed changes and make it work for you. It can be done.

quote:

---

Additionally, it mentions a heat pad. How is that any different than the heat rock recommended by certain mill breeders - which we have to preach and preach against using!?

---

Please note the heat pad is not for the Sugar Gliders but to help germinate the sprout mix!!!!

quote:

---

You criticize Peggy. Have you met Dr. Tristan? Are you familiar with his credentials? Is there harm in the body excreting nutrients it cannot use? I was under the opinion that this process is routine in humans and all (most?) other animals. Are you saying that Dr. Tristan's vet experience is "passed off"? What evidence do you have of this?

Firsts off "Yes" there is harm in these animals excreting the nutrients they cannot process in there bodies. the reason being they cannot filter all they need to from these diets like high iron contents and this is directly relational to liver and kidney failure! Peggy is also talking to people in Australia who do not have credentilas about Sugar Gliders although profess to have. I am personally in corespondance with one of those people asking them to be accountable and honest. I do not know Dr. Yristans nor was i attacking him but many vsts have said that BML is a good diet without any real knowledge. If you are in hospital and need your diet looked at the Dr. will call in a nutrtionist as this is what they specialize in.

You say in this thread an "Australian Animal nutritionist" helped develop the Leadbeaters. However, in another thread, where I asked for the specific Leadbeaters mix, you downplayed it and said that Leadbeater developed the diet with "no nutritional knowlegde nor background to develop this nectar."

Des Hacket was just a layman who took wild sugar glderds and leadbeater possums and made up a diet and had great success woth breeding, The animal nutrtionist looked at this nectar mix and developed one with suppliments anand added protein in it.

You say the Original Leadbeaters doesn't have apple juice - however all recipes I have found DO include the apple juice. Which is WHY I asked you for your recipe. Additionally it contains components "Not available in the states" - which doesn't really help us. I found another diet which contained ingredients not available in the states.

---

No Australian diets use apple juice, this is purley something added in the States. This diet is not a hard diet to convert for the Us market. Saying you need a simple diet, unfortunatly every diet has some work either looking at the calcium to phosphorus ratios or making up a nectar mix to freeze. I'm only stating that many of these have produced gliders with health problems or even death. This is not a to scare people but a fact, most people choose to sweep under the carpet. Look at the archives and history shows that these diets do have problems whsn used for extended periods of time.

Jett - let me clarify ... *I* don't need a simple diet. I already sprout seed for both my birds and gliders. I also cook part of my birds' food, and I "farm" 4 types of insects to enrich my gliders' and chameleon's diet. The diets I feed are not "out of the can"--not even for my dogs and cats, and certainly not for my other animals. I do feed HPW, and I believe it is good for my gliders. However... I also am careful with the Ca:Ph ratios, and enrich their diet in many ways.

However, more and more gliders are entering the American pet market via Mill Breeders (I estimate that they are selling aproximately 1500 gliders a WEEKEND. People are told that they are buying a FIVE year supply of food along with their glider, and they only need to supplement it with apples ... furthermore, this animal will never need to go to a vet.

When this shell-shocked owner finds a glider forum, it is VERY difficult to convince them to feed more than pellets and apples. If you then say, "Here - print off this full page of complex instructions and feed that each night..." you are going to loose people!

Yes - they are exotic animals and people should expect an exotic diet. However, that isn't the case! They've been sold "a bill of goods" along with the glider. We need to be able to reach them ... and quickly!

Over the past few weeks, there have been threads here and on other forums saying "BML is bad" or "We are killing our gliders." How are we going to convince people that the pellets and apples are bad? How are we going to convince people that we are NOT the "internet experts" that the Mill Breeder warned them about?

We do need to "dumb it down". Not for the people already here, seeking the best care for their gliders. But for the new people who just 3 days ago came home with a strange, fierce, smelly little beast and now might venture out to find help.

So - Help me!

Rewrite the Healsville diet. Make it as simple as possible (a couple of paragraphs about *how* to sprout seeds is very confusing! I sprout seeds weekly and didn't get the bit about the heating pad!) Make substitutions for the US market. Let's get it in front of these new owners ASAP!

Been working on converting the Healsville diet to US measurements.

It takes THREE cups of honey, and makes 8 1/2 cups of nectar. The HPW diet takes 1 1/2 cups of honey to make about 6 1/4 cups of HPW.

That is A LOT of honey!!

HEALESVILLE SANCTUARY DIET SHEET:

SPECIES: SUGAR GLIDER: Petaurus breviceps
NATURAL DIET: Insects, pollen, nectar, sap, lerps.
AD LIB: Water.

DAILY DIET (per animal):
1 Dog chow/Advance. (Do not understand this unit of measure. 1 *what* of Dog Chow??)
1 Tablespoon Fruit, chopped.
.6 teaspoons Nectar mix.* (that is just over a 1/2 teaspoon)
1g Fly pupae (¼ tea spoon).
1 teaspoon Corn.
1/2 teaspoon Sprouted seed.*
2 Mealworms.

SUPPLEMENT: 5 Pollen grains – once per week.
3 Sultanas – 3-4 times per week. (Sultanas are the yellow/green raisins)
2 Sunflower seeds – once per week.
1/4 teaspoon Pet Health Food (small cube) – once per week. (What is Pet Health food, please??)
1 Almonds - once per week.
Insects – 3-4 times per week (eg. moths).
Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available.


NECTAR MIX - To Make up 8.5 cups of Nectar Mix:
3 cups Honey
4.2 cups Hot Water 4.2 cups
3 Eggs
4.2 teaspoons Soluvet
4.2 teaspoons Calcivet
1 cup Cold Water
5 teaspoons High Protein Baby Cereal

Dissolve the honey in the hot water.
Blend together:
Eggs – hard boiled – shelled.
Soluvet
Calcivet
Cold water
Once blended, add mix to the honey and water, together with High
Protein Baby Cereal.
It is essential that the vitamin supplements are thoroughly mixed to ensure even
distribution throughout the mix.
This mix needs to be made fresh on a daily basis. Remaining contents of each day to
be discarded.
The mix can be made up last thing each afternoon and placed in the fridge.


Sprouted Seed Mix
Composition (as specified on Diet Sheet)
40 % Fine seed mix
40 % Wheat
10% Sunflower seed
10% Mung Beans

quote:

---

Originally posted by valkyriemome

Please check out this discussion for a very complete analysis on the ACTUAL amount of Pollen in the HPW. It is completely comparative to the Healsville diet, in fact.

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/377179/Bee_Pollen_Comparison_HPW_Diet#Post377179

I remember reading Ed's studies back in September 2007, and based on his analysis concluded, as he did, that the HPW was extremely close to the Healsville diet, and needed a very slight boost in calcium.

Do you find flaw with his research?

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387645/Healesville_Diet_Nutritional_A#Post387645

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/387644/Update_HPW_Diet_Nutritional_An#Post387644

I sincerely want to discuss this. I want answers and solutions, and only by provoking thought and research can these be obtained!

---

Okay looking at how Ed got the nutritional stats for Healesville diet, here is what he said.

quote:

---

Here are the assumptions used in this analysis:

In the nectarmix.xls spreadsheet, rice cereal is being used for the cereal component, Calcivet for the calcium/D3/mg component, Soluvet for the multi-vitamin, regular filtered (US, not AU) clover honey, and three eggs. The nectar amount was calculated first at the 2 liter (batch) level and then broken down to the individual 3ml serving level.

---

Okay right here is a flaw. Healesville sanctuary use a High protein mixed grain cereal. Rice cereal's nutritional components are different to the ones in the high protein mixed grain cereal.

quote:

---

For "Dog Chow / Advance" I am using Using Eukanuba Adult chow (lamb rice) this has virtually the same nutritive value as the other Eukanuba Adult formulas.

---

Okay this again is flawed as whilst Eukanuba Adult lamb rice chow has "virtually the same nutritive values as other Eukanuba Adult formulas, I just happen to have a bag of American small dog Eukanuba (okay its chicken one but Ed did say they had virtually the same nutritive values) plus a bag of Advance chow in front of me.Lots of nutritional differences but a big one is Eukanuba has corn meal listed as the third ingredient..no corn in the Advance chow at all.

quote:

---

For fruit component, Papaya is being used.

---

Using one fruit and not what is recommended in tHe HS diet again flaws the analysis.

quote:

---

Corn assumption is regular white corn.

---

Assumption wrong, fresh yellow corn on the cob is used.

quote:

---

Sprouts, using nutritive value of mung bean sprouts as the baseline - one of the sprouts used in the appendix.

---

Mung beans is only one of the sprouts. Why not use all listed? Another flaw.

quote:

---

Pollen. Using Jarrah Tree pollen granuels as the basis. 1,200 granules per tablespoon. All nutritive calculations based on 5 granuels per week the sum of which was divided by 7 to normalize the amount over one week.

---

How can you possibly split five little grains by 7?

quote:

---

Blossums "Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available." Using Corymbia calophylla (Marri)@ 27.8 % crude protein and Acacia stereophylla (wodgil) @ 25.9 % crude protein for an average of 26.85% crude protein. Using Jarrah as basis for non-protein, non-carb components.

---

How was this worked out by blossoms or sap or by the actual nutritonal content of the tree itself?
Gliders do not eat acacia blossoms
Corymbia calophylla (Marri)- a tree native to Western Australia in an area where there are no gliders. Good choice.

Jarrah - another Western Australian tree from an area where there are no gliders. Another wise choice.

Acacia stereophylla (wodgil) Three times bingo.Another WA tree.
So all these trees do not normally occur in areas of wild gliders. I am guessing the document that Ed got the nutritional contents of these trees from , was from Western Australia!

Now I am beginning to remember why I stopped debating with Ed on all this. He made too many assumptions without proper facts and then published these as though they were scientifically accurate.

The smell just about killed me too and Ive always used cold eggs. I think it is the baby food and vitamins that give it the smell. I chopped up strawberries and added it to the mix and it smelled sooooo much better!!

Ko - you are doing it again!

I don't really care why you choose to pick apart the results someone who cared enough to TRY came up with.

Where are YOUR results? What are YOUR recommendations? And - again I ask, WHY would it be a bad thing that excess pollen is processed out of the glider? That's what bodies do! They take what they need and leave what they don't. Finding pollen in fecals is NOT an indication that something is wrong.

If gliders don't eat acacia - why are acacia blossoms listed on the Healsville diet?

You have stated (or maybe it was Jett?) that gliders don't eat fruit, they eat more vegetables. If that is so, why does the Healsville diet have 1 TABLEspoon of fruit, and 1 1/2 TEAspoons of vegetables (with a full 1 teaspoon of those vegetables being corn)?

The nectar component - which can only be made in batches as small as 8 1/2 cups, according to their recipe - makes up only .6 Teaspoon of the nightly diet - and must be made fresh daily. Are you really doing this? Would you really recommend someone with 2 gliders do this?

And -- AGAIN! You say we can make this diet here with "easy substitutions." "In most cases the US baby cereal is higher in protein than people realise or is that Australian high protein cereal has less protein than people realize." And again: "I would substitute this with either rice flour which is done by roflmbo2 or grind up oats." So - Ed did that, right!? He used Rice baby food which *IS* available here instead of baby food which is *NOT* available here.

Same with the Dog Food. What good is it to claim that our dog food isn't as good as your dog food? Who is that helping, exactly!?

AGAIN - The AMERICANS here are trying to feed their gliders the best they can. AGAIN - The AUSTRALIANS here are saying that we are doing it wrong, without offering ANY solution.

First you say "Just make easy substitutions." Then you rip apart the person who did exactly that.

Basically, what I learned from your post is: Our dog food isn't good enough. Our corn isn't good enough. We use the wrong kind of flower blossom, and we use the wrong kind of pollen.

Ok - so -- got anything helpful to add at all? Or do you just want to continue to post that we are doing it all wrong?

Oh -- and as for Ed's "scientific inaccuracies" ... I talked with him about that just yesterday. Rather than assist him in any way, you just picked apart his conclusions. When he asked you for clarification, you didn't respond. And when he emailed the Healsville Sanctuary MULTIPLE times for clarification, THEY didn't respond.

So - sorry - my vote continues to be with ED on this one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by valkyriemome

Ko - you are doing it again!

I don't really care why you choose to pick apart the results someone who cared enough to TRY came up with.

---

Sorry but you asked me if I thought the analysis was flawed. Your words and I responded with a reply.

quote:

---

Where are YOUR results? What are YOUR recommendations?

---

I do my own research but I do not have the qualifications or gall to publish scientificic results.

quote:

---

And - again I ask, WHY would it be a bad thing that excess pollen is processed out of the glider? That's what bodies do! They take what they need and leave what they don't. Finding pollen in fecals is NOT an indication that something is wrong.

---

Pollen is like a super mega vitamin tablet with the nutritional content. Too many vitamins can actually be lethal which is a good reason not to overfeed.

quote:

---

If gliders don't eat acacia - why are acacia blossoms listed on the Healsville diet?

---

Fair point but they will hunt for insects in the blossoms and will chew the bark on the twig supporting the blossoms. Maybe some acacia blossoms are edible but I have yet to find any that are.

quote:

---

You have stated (or maybe it was Jett?) that gliders don't eat fruit, they eat more vegetables. If that is so, why does the Healsville diet have 1 TABLEspoon of fruit, and 1 1/2 TEAspoons of vegetables (with a full 1 teaspoon of those vegetables being corn)?

---

I don't wholly feed the Healesvile diet when it comes to fruit/veg.Due to some research/training Jett and I did re wild possum/glider rehabiliation, I decided to try and steer back towards a more wild type diet in combo with Healesville diet. My vet is a wildlife and exotic vet who specialises in nutrition and the other vet I consulted is a Wildlife vet who worked at healesville. From their recommendations, we have tried a different approach to fruit/veg feeding. This is nothing to do with the Healesville diet.

quote:

---

The nectar component - which can only be made in batches as small as 8 1/2 cups, according to their recipe - makes up only .6 Teaspoon of the nightly diet - and must be made fresh daily. Are you really doing this? Would you really recommend someone with 2 gliders do this?

---

Their diet was made for their own gliders in the sanctuary. It was never developed as a diet for the public to feed their gliders so yes they do make it fresh. Jett and I have been to the sanctuary kitchens and seen the mix and makings of the diet in the fridge.
If people want to make smaller batches then it's fine. I make it fresh weekly myself.

quote:

---

And -- AGAIN! You say we can make this diet here with "easy substitutions." "In most cases the US baby cereal is higher in protein than people realise or is that Australian high protein cereal has less protein than people realize." And again: "I would substitute this with either rice flour which is done by roflmbo2 or grind up oats." So - Ed did that, right!? He used Rice baby food which *IS* available here instead of baby food which is *NOT* available here.

---

I didn't say anything about rice flour so you aren't quoting me there. However, adding wombaroo HPS could bring up the high protein part if needed.

quote:

---

Same with the Dog Food. What good is it to claim that our dog food isn't as good as your dog food? Who is that helping, exactly!?

---

Taking me out of context there. This was purely in reference to the type of dog chow Ed used in his analysis of the Healesville diet. How could give a complete nutritional anaylysis of the Healesville diet if he used dog food that was a different nutritonal breakdown. Show me where I said your dog food wasn't as good as ours??? My statement was purely in reference to Ed's claims that he had the complete nutritional breakdown of the Healesville diet.

quote:

---

First you say "Just make easy substitutions." Then you rip apart the person who did exactly that.

---

Taking me out of context again and for the same reasons above. He was publishing a diet analysis as fact, not making substitutions for his own diet.

quote:

---

Basically, what I learned from your post is: Our dog food isn't good enough. Our corn isn't good enough. We use the wrong kind of flower blossom, and we use the wrong kind of pollen.

---

exactly as above.

quote:

---

Ok - so -- got anything helpful to add at all? Or do you just want to continue to post that we are doing it all wrong?

---

Well considering you take everything out of context and not really being nice about it all...no. Ask ed he has all the answers obviously.

quote:

---

Oh -- and as for Ed's "scientific inaccuracies" ... I talked with him about that just yesterday. Rather than assist him in any way, you just picked apart his conclusions. When he asked you for clarification, you didn't respond. And when he emailed the Healsville Sanctuary MULTIPLE times for clarification, THEY didn't respond.

---

We had many debates on this in which he refused to even deal with the diets in a fair way and in the end I refused to even talk to him. No doubt he is reading this. Anything we said, he totally ignored and from the results of his work, it was obvious he wasn't even going to try to work with us.
Healesville Sanctuary did not publish the diet to the web. Someone kindly did so and honestly it is not up to the sanctuary to respond with any clarifications especially to laymen. I doubt whether I would get a reply either if I emailed them either.

quote:

---

So - sorry - my vote continues to be with ED on this one.

---

Didn't know this was a competition! Okay guess, you don't need any more replies from me then. Actually if i had read this first before starting to respond, I may not have bothered replying but there you go.

Sorry, Ko - if you'll look back through this thread, you'll see I was nice about it. Over and over I asked for help. Repeatedly! Nicely.

Just got frustrated with hearing about how everything is bad, with no help offered!

As for "no doubt he is reading this" - a little paranoia is a good thing, I suppose. :)

Further thoughts .... The purpose of the glider forums is to help one another. This is the internet! Nothing is "published" but opinions and advice.

If you aren't willing to post your findings to help others, then you are missing the point of the forums, I think.