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SariYappa Face Hugger   USA 413 Posts Can I add another note?  I don't necessarily think it's time to find another vet. I think it's time for all of us to try and EDUCATE our vets to best of our ability!  Let's give them the tools to become better at their profession, to help other glider slaves, and to become the best exotic vets they can be!  Remember vets are people too. They are also doctors. They are busy, but if they are concerned, they will give you the time you deserve. Keeping these things in mind, scientific explanations work best. Supporting information and documents are things they can study at home. If they are interested, they will do more research. Give them links to valuable web-sites, and let them know your concerns on others. BE PREPARED!! Give your vet a WRITTEN list of the veterinarians out there that are happy to support other vets (see listings above!!). If they are willing to work with you, and with the other vets, this will give you a strong bond with your veterinarian, and will make things better for all the future people that seek their advice!! I believe this is a large step in fighting the Glider Mill battle. Nobody knows it all, but we can learn together! (where is the hug smiley??) our2girlz Goofy Gorillatoes   United States 2362 Posts pgnut13 Joey 31 Posts I guess this post is playing devil's advocate but I am curious. First of all I feed Bml and it works fine and my vet recommended it BUT, there are so many vets recommending other diets saying that homemade diets are spawns from "forums filled with nazis that think they know what they are doing but promoting diets that are expensive and bad for your gliders". All I am saying is, vets SHOULD know what they are talking about and I have worked with vets that rely on formularies for info on unknown exotics BUT who do you choose to believe? Vets are going to warn you about online posters and how crazy they are and how defensive they can be BUT online posters will also tell you that the vets have no idea what they are talking about. Most new owners will side with a vet. It seems there is a aggresive war between hardcore owners and vets so it has to be very confusing to new owners. Where is the line drawn? I don't agree with mill breeding but it seems like the diet issue is making online posters that really care look crazy because they DON'T agree with anything a vet says. There's got to be a better way to resolve the mill breeding issue than attacking vets on diet issues and assuming they are part of a conspiracy. As far as I know vets for the most part are trying to take care of animals and do what is best for them given that some might be misinformed. Just wanted to address that there are websites and vets that address the fact that forums are filled with crazy people that have no idea what they are talking about and new owners come to these forums and look for help but the stigmas are justified with accusations of affiliation personally or with thier vet with pet mills. These new owners are coming here to learn and attacking what thier vet says will only alienate them from being a part of these forums which could possibly help them out in the end and introduce them to new friends that can help them and be there to share stories. When it comes down to it, it's all about the gliders and people who love them and are trying to take the best care for them, otherwise why would anyone waste the time to be here? pgnut13 Joey 31 Posts Mine doesn't either. The point I was trying to make is that new suggie owners with maybe misinformed vets could be turned off by the agression they get when posting on this or any forum about questions or diet or anything. skittlesandpeanut Super Glider  USA 227 Posts Glider Invasion Joey USA 20 Posts Welcome to GG, ssalcedo, we all hope you stay with us!!! I need to add my 2 cents also. When I first started with gliders, (almost 8 years ago), I 'read' only. I read every site & book, I could find. But for about 2 years, I kept my mouth shut!... and my eyes & ears open. Because I knew others had so much more information to offer than I 'thought' I did. I guess some of us feel important when it seems we have something to offer. But as stated earlier, your question has already been asked & answered a few hundred times already. I was very fortunate to see that before I started posting anything. If we all would take the time to do the research ourselves, it becomes 'our very own knowledge', (not just what someone said). It helps us keep ourselves from sounding silly, keeps others from having to say the same thing- several hundred times, And, it leaves the more seasoned glider owners free to offer more extensive & other (not yet known) information. We all, need to take FULL advantage of these forums & wealth of information. So read it yourself, evaluate the information, check where & from whom, the information is coming. Then use your common sense (or call a friend that has some) as I sometimes have to do. lol I think ppl may sound harsh sometimes, but after watching and reading for a year or two, I learned it was not harshness..but compassion & love for our suggies. (and very severe cases of GLIDERITIS)!!! AND...besides that...IT's A COMPUTER for goodness sakes!! (so we don't hear others tones nor see expressions). If my child was in danger, I don't care how I was told. Just as long as I was told! You WILL find yourself in the same place one day. The more you learn, the more passionate you get. Now start researching, (his part NEVER stops)! Then you can tell when someone is giving you the wrong information or not. Again, welcome aboard! Glider Invasion Joey USA 20 Posts Oh, I almost forgot!!! I have a flyer FROM PPP, that clearly states their addmission of using dog/cat food and calling it glider chow. One division out of Texas calls it 'glider chow' the other out of Florida, calls it 'glider grub',(or vise versa). THEIR flyer states, reguarding their .."1 YEAR SUPPLY" of...'GLIDER CRAP', Quote: "which Purina, has given us the permission to repackage". My glider eat NOTHING after sitting around for a year. PURINA....'DOES NOT' make glider food! But what do they make??? ...(heeere kitty kitty),.. shoot, here comes my cat, not my glider. You HAVE to order the YEARS supply of Glider Crap, from PPP..ONLY!! that in itself, is a red flag to me. (I do take that flyer with me when I go to a PPP siteing).
kyro298 Glider Sprinkles CO, USA 15262 Posts quote:
Originally posted by pgnut13
It seems there is a aggresive war between hardcore owners and vets so it has to be very confusing to new owners. Where is the line drawn?
I don't agree with this AT ALL. Not only is there no aggressive war..as a matter of fact, the "issue" is with very SPECIFIC vets that back or are backed by very SPECIFIC companies. Where is the line drawn? Between vets that have correct knowledge from factual research vs. vets that are paid to market packaged foods to further their own income. quote:
I don't agree with mill breeding but it seems like the diet issue is making online posters that really care look crazy because they DON'T agree with anything a vet says. There's got to be a better way to resolve the mill breeding issue than attacking vets on diet issues and assuming they are part of a conspiracy.
Again, this "disagreement" is about very few specific vets that are backing, funding, marketing, or whatever you want to call it......mill breeders. Diet and mill breeding are two separate issues. Solving one will never solve the other. There just happens to be a correlation between a some vets and the largest mill breeder in this country. That's a fact. If trying to prove that to someone in a passionate way makes them "crazy", so be it. quote:
As far as I know vets for the most part are trying to take care of animals and do what is best for them given that some might be misinformed. Just wanted to address that there are websites and vets that address the fact that forums are filled with crazy people that have no idea what they are talking about and new owners come to these forums and look for help but the stigmas are justified with accusations of affiliation personally or with thier vet with pet mills.
Besides any PPP based/supported site, I would really like to see ONE, just ONE other site that addresses forums filled with crazy people. ONE. quote:
These new owners are coming here to learn and attacking what thier vet says will only alienate them from being a part of these forums which could possibly help them out in the end and introduce them to new friends that can help them and be there to share stories. When it comes down to it, it's all about the gliders and people who love them and are trying to take the best care for them, otherwise why would anyone waste the time to be here?
I personally think the issue starts when someone blatanly claims their vet told them that something is incorrect so it is. Period. If my vet were to tell me that, I'd want to know WHY. I'd want comparisons and I'd want proof. Some people may just take their vet's word for it, but others choose to do their own research and scary enough, there are members that have a years and years more experience with caring for, raising, feeding and doing their own research. These aren't dogs and cats that have been domesticated for hundreds of years. I'm one that likes to base decisions on facts, not opinions. I understand that most people want quick and easy answers/fixes. In this community, there are luckily more that care about facts. Also, what everyone seems to forget is that EVERY member here started as a new member at some point, right? yes i agree. we shouldnt attack ssalcedo. ( i know some of us werernt) i understadn you heared something from a vet! i mean who wouldnt beleive that! Epspecially someoe new to gliders. im new myself. if i heared that from my vet i would be SOOO confussed! an ofly sad bc he would have said i was feeding them wrong. but i understand why u would let us know u were concerned an worrkied for us thanks you =) i know your not a spam cow. =) dont worry about it. not your fault the vet told u something.. opinionated. i would have done the same thing. i would have been like ( everyone is this true my vet said this!) im not gulable but...i like to make sure ya know? so noooo worried <333 thanks for the concern very much appreciated. filly47 Goofy Gorillatoes USA 2330 Posts I agree with Rita. I love my vet because I know he had years of schooling and experience working with a variety of animals. But I also know that even if he has taken courses on gliders, if he has not owned one, he does nto truly know them. When I take my cat to the vet he can tell me this and that, but I am the one who has to inform him of what is different in her behavior or physique, because I have lived with her for almost nine years and I know what is 'normal' and what isn't. Just as you can read a case study on a glider or read about their environment and nature, but how are you to tell if a behavior is normal for a certain animal if you have not been around them? Also it is completely true that lots of doctors of any type (including vets) are in it for the money. My vet is not one of them, and he is an honest man who always is willing to listen to me and always knows that there is something to learn. So any doctor looking to make a buck will easily sign up with pharmacutical (I know that it isn't spelled right!) companies or in this case of this scenario, with a chain brand of food. If they support a company, that company will generously reward them! I do believe that we are angry at the product and the way people go about selling it and not the person discussing it. And yes I will be the first to say that PPP has rubbed me the wrong way, and you do not do that to someone like me and expect me to turn the other cheek. I am one who will give up everything for their animals' happiness, that includes giving up eating to provide food for them, and easily taking a bullet (okay don't know who would be shooting them!) for them! snusie Goofy Gorillatoes USA 2962 Posts quote:
Originally posted by leahburk
... in the wild they eat most of the igredients that are in the diets we use especially the fresh fruits and veggies. ...
Do a Google search "sugar glider wild diet." In the wild, gliders eat various types of native fruit, sap, nectar, insects, eggs, and small birds and animals. http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?NaturalDiet
They don't have access to vegetables. Most of the diets we offer are attempts to replicate this natural diet, though we don't have the resources to do so. Instead we do the best we can with that's available, and the fresh fruits and vegetables are very important sources of vitamins and minerals. We can only offer what protein sources we have, such as chicken, eggs, turkey, or fish. Very little of what we feed our gliders would be available to them in the wild. We have evolved some fairly healthy diets, but none of them are the same as what our little ones would eat if they lived in the Australian bush.
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