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Sugar Gliders
Neutering methods
Neutering methods
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Dec 18 2009
02:18:36 AM
Okay, I just did a search to find out about how neutering for gliders are done and the only thing I found was a site where they say the vet tied suturing tightly around the furry sac and eventually it dropped off Okay, so I'm well aware that that is how Ox are neutered (except it's a strong type of elastic), but is this an approved and safe way to neuter a suggie or are there other methods?
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Dec 18 2009
02:55:03 AM
fadedrainbows Face Hugger GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit fadedrainbows's Photo Album fadedrainbows's Journal USA 819 Posts
That sounds so sad!! There are other ways. My little guy is not neutered yet, but I know that there is the Pom On approach where they make an incision and just remove the testicles but leave the sac and the Pom Off approach where they remove everything. But it's all surgically done, not that barbaric.
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Dec 18 2009
03:01:39 AM
snusie Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit snusie's Photo Album snusie's Journal USA 2962 Posts
Take him to a qualified exotic vet. There are two basic methods, poms-on and poms-off.

The poms-off neuter involves removing the whole scrotal sac, and if done with a scalpel will require stitches, and can lead to self-mutilation if your little guy is very uncomfortable. He'll need several days of pain meds and an E-collar. If done with a laser there are no stitches, though there's still a need for pain meds. I understand that the laser surgery will be very easy for him to get over.

The poms-on neuter leaves the scrotal sac. There's a tiny slit cut in it, and the testes are removed; then the slit is closed with a drop of surgical glue. I've had three gliders neutered this way, and all three were playing and acting completely normal within forty-five minutes of the procedure -- except they were awake at eight-thirty in the morning! I don't know if this can also be done with a laser; if so, it would be even better. I didn't give them pain meds, they never touched the site or acted any differently than usual.

I recommend you find a vet who'll do the poms-on neuter, either traditionally or by laser. The cost can vary widely, too; so call around.
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Dec 18 2009
03:42:59 AM
Poolnymph Glider Visit Poolnymph's Photo Album South Africa 138 Posts
Thanks very much! I agree that method of tying off just seems cruel!

I like the poms on approach that you mentioned, even my bull terrier's vet left his scrotum on and I just think it's better - why remove what doesn't need to be removed in my opinion.

I'm definately going to opt for the poms on approach and I'll take Chocolate to our other vet in the neighbouring town (15 minutes from where we live), as he does our parrots and I take my reptiles to him.

South Africa doesn't have exotic vets like The States does, instead our vets get very limited exotic animal training, so they have to do additional training on their own (many go to The States for additional training) and many have to do their own research as well. With that said there are very competent and passionate vets and this one in particular doesn't take offense when offered additional information / advice from us keepers and he loves his patients so much, he often doesn't charge the ridiculous amounts like other vets who just see their profession as just a job. I know my "family members" are in good hands with someone who takes care of them as if they are his own. He even lightly sedates our parrots when trimming their claws, beaks or cutting their wings, so that they don't experience unnecessary stress, thereby risking their health and mental well being.

I'll ask him to do the poms on procedure and because I know Chocolate will be in good hands, I don't mind paying the necessary costs. Money doesn't take priority over my pets' well being.

Chocolate is now almost 10 weeks, so when would be a good age to take him for his snip?
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Dec 18 2009
08:31:11 AM
kyro298 Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kyro298's Photo Album kyro298's Journal CO, USA 15262 Posts
I've had one at 12 and one at 16 weeks. My vet said it was important they are at least 65 grams though. All three of mine have their poms left too. The method you found online is straight barbaric...especially for animals prone to self-mutilation. :(
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Dec 18 2009
10:35:49 AM
Poolnymph Glider Visit Poolnymph's Photo Album South Africa 138 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by kyro298

I've had one at 12 and one at 16 weeks. My vet said it was important they are at least 65 grams though. All three of mine have their poms left too. The method you found online is straight barbaric...especially for animals prone to self-mutilation. :(



Thanks Kyro, that info helps a lot. I nearly died when I read about the tying off, it felt like an April's Fool joke gone horribly wrong!
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Dec 18 2009
02:15:34 PM
sugar-mommy2 Super Glider Visit sugar-mommy2's Photo Album IN, USA 279 Posts
My gliders are girls, but my daughter who still lives at home, has a little boy and she had him neutered by laser and he was up playing that night like normal. He did not seem to know he was any different then the night before.lol
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Dec 18 2009
02:28:35 PM
Poolnymph Glider Visit Poolnymph's Photo Album South Africa 138 Posts
If laser's a possibility, then I'll definately consider it.
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Dec 18 2009
07:22:49 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5254 Posts

We have had close to a hundred sugar glider neuters done in the past few years. At first, it was hit and miss and done by as many as four vets. We have been surprised at how the methods and practices between vets are so different. After a few years, we have pretty much given all of our neuter business to one vet, because she has what we think are the most humane and sensical set of 'best practices' for sugar glider operations.

Much of the difference comes down to operating "style" or tradition for some vets. For example, the use of a laser is somewhat of a tradition issue. A laser, for all intents and purposes is a knife. Some vets like them, some don't. We do not recommend choosing a vet based on whether or not they use a laser.

Another tradition issue has to do with shaving area around the operation site, no matter how small the incision is. Even the Center for Disease Control has weighed in against this for humans - citing an increased chance of infection after surgery. For vets, the practice of shaving an area before surgery seems traditional.

The pom-on / pom-off difference is debated between professinals. Some vets think if the scrotum is no longer functional, leaving it is just another appendage that can get cut or caught on something or over-groomed so they take it off. Some think it's less stressful for the glider to just lop it off and taking the testes out is more stressful. I think it's a toss-up really.

More important, we think, are best practices established by vets who understand gliders well. By simple observation (behavior and health of the glider after surgery), we can see which vets do the best job.

Here then are the practices we respect and have grown to count on that I urge you to discuss with your vet:

1. Guard against self mutilation. In the exotic pet world, Sugar Gliders, for some reason have more of a tendency to self-mutilate that other animals. If an area becomes irritated, infected, numb, or even just looks different, some gliders will savagely bite at that area. For this reason, it is recommended that no shaving of fur occur before surgery. It is also recommended that in a pom-off surgery, only the smallest incision be made and that part of the stalk or stub of the scrotum be left intact.

2. Pain management. In addition to the tendency to self-mutilate, gliders can become very excited and stressed-out if they withstand pain during and after surgery. Amongst vets who are very knowledgeable about sugar gliders, they agree that the careful application of post surgery pain medication (in addition to anesthesia during surgery) is essential. These animals do in fact feel pain and some vets argue it is simply cruel not to calm them down with pain meeds for the first 24 hours after surgery. Our main vet says keeping them a little "woozy" after surgery works wonders in avoiding mishaps. I for one, being a big baby pain-wise, could not imagine an operation like this without post-op meds.

3. Overnight and next-day observation at Vet. It is considered a best practice to keep the animal overnight at the vet's office. This way the veterinary technicians and vet can keep an eye on the animal during the most important hours after recovery. If anything goes wrong or if the glider tries to pick at his wound, they are there to correct the problem or get him into an e-collar quickly.

Clearly, even the best vets' practices could fall outside of these recommendations if they in fact are NOT sugar glider experts. This little suggies are special and vets who treat them regularly have some of the "gotchas" figured out.
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Dec 18 2009
11:32:59 PM
graciedawn Super Glider GliderMap Visit graciedawn's Photo Album 206 Posts
I just had Sam neutered Dec. 4. My vet did laser with poms on. Sam took the e collar off at the vets office and we never had to put it back on. The only issue we had was that he wanted to go back with his girls. He was very mad at me. This was done on Wed. and he was back with the girls on Thurs. night. It was a bit sleepless on my part, but I wanted to make sure that the girls left it alone. No problems since.
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Dec 19 2009
02:08:15 AM
Poolnymph Glider Visit Poolnymph's Photo Album South Africa 138 Posts
Thanks for the great info and feedback! :D

Ed, thanks for your post! We have 2 vets, the first is our bull terrier's vet, as he is an expert in bullies particularly, he bred our bullie's mom - all of whom have fantastic temperaments and we know our boy is in good hands with this vet. Our second vet is the one that is 15 minutes away from us and the one who'll I'll take Chocolate too, irrespective of whether he uses laser or traditional methods. This vet has a lot more experience with exotic pets, LOVES his patients, and more importantly, I could give him a copy of your post, discuss things with him and if I insist on something particular he'll definately listen to what I want, provided it won't risk the pet's well being. He definately uses sedation and believes in proper pain management. Knowing him, he'll probably keep Chocolate with him in his home to monitor him In short, Chocolate couldn't be in better hands.
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Dec 21 2009
05:23:29 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5254 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by Poolnymph

Thanks for the great info and feedback! :D

Ed, thanks for your post! We have 2 vets, the first is our bull terrier's vet, as he is an expert in bullies particularly, he bred our bullie's mom - all of whom have fantastic temperaments and we know our boy is in good hands with this vet. Our second vet is the one that is 15 minutes away from us and the one who'll I'll take Chocolate too, irrespective of whether he uses laser or traditional methods. This vet has a lot more experience with exotic pets, LOVES his patients, and more importantly, I could give him a copy of your post, discuss things with him and if I insist on something particular he'll definately listen to what I want, provided it won't risk the pet's well being. He definately uses sedation and believes in proper pain management. Knowing him, he'll probably keep Chocolate with him in his home to monitor him In short, Chocolate couldn't be in better hands.



Sounds like a great vet! Our main vet for neuter operations is Christine Kolmstetter DVM of Cheyenne West Animal Hospital in Las Vegas. If your vet has any questions or wants to trade notes or best practices I am sure Dr. K will be happy to do that. In addition to her DVM, she has a bachelor's degree in chemistry and a master's degree in biochemistry and nutrition. So far, she is the best sugar glider expert we have found.
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Dec 22 2009
06:31:19 AM
Poolnymph Glider Visit Poolnymph's Photo Album South Africa 138 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyGlider

quote:
Originally posted by Poolnymph

Thanks for the great info and feedback! :D

Ed, thanks for your post! We have 2 vets, the first is our bull terrier's vet, as he is an expert in bullies particularly, he bred our bullie's mom - all of whom have fantastic temperaments and we know our boy is in good hands with this vet. Our second vet is the one that is 15 minutes away from us and the one who'll I'll take Chocolate too, irrespective of whether he uses laser or traditional methods. This vet has a lot more experience with exotic pets, LOVES his patients, and more importantly, I could give him a copy of your post, discuss things with him and if I insist on something particular he'll definately listen to what I want, provided it won't risk the pet's well being. He definately uses sedation and believes in proper pain management. Knowing him, he'll probably keep Chocolate with him in his home to monitor him In short, Chocolate couldn't be in better hands.



Sounds like a great vet! Our main vet for neuter operations is Christine Kolmstetter DVM of Cheyenne West Animal Hospital in Las Vegas. If your vet has any questions or wants to trade notes or best practices I am sure Dr. K will be happy to do that. In addition to her DVM, she has a bachelor's degree in chemistry and a master's degree in biochemistry and nutrition. So far, she is the best sugar glider expert we have found.



He is a great vet, he will even take time out of his schedule to see any new reptiles or tarantulas that I've gotten - it's actually a great treat for him, I have an open invitation to bring them whenever there's new additions.

Ed, thanks a mil re: Dr. K - I'll drop you a pm and get her e-mail addy from you, if she would be ok with that? I know Dr. Jacobs would really appreciate it too.
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Dec 22 2009
03:22:03 PM
cristyoo2 Glider Visit cristyoo2's Photo Album USA 154 Posts
I got my two little boys laser neutered poms off and they were great after the surgery. In fact you could not even see a wound or a difference in their behavior at all. Of course I made sure to check them every once in awhile just to make sure but they recovered smoothly and never had to wear an e-coller!!

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Dec 24 2009
05:27:31 PM
LuckyGlider Zippy Glidershorts GliderMap Visit LuckyGlider's Photo Album LuckyGlider's Journal TX, USA 5254 Posts
poolnymph I got your pm and answered... happy holidays
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Oct 07 2010
06:34:40 PM
Azucar Starting Member 1 Posts
Hi every one! i just neutered my 2 babies--laser pompoms off---i shook like a child when i picked them up...so scared of self mutilation
it was expensive for laser--$300 for both--but i dont regret it...they look good---no fighting----no incision--no ecollar. they did not shave so it looks good. very little stress for them...they are sleeping together for a little bit.. but i remove them when i go to sleep for one night--I'm very happy with the results.
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Neutering methods

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Neutering methods