We do not need a study of the current recognized diets. We need information on the daily nutritional requirements of gliders in captivity. We need guidelines for the amount of protein, carbs, fat, fiber, calcium and other minerals, vitamins etc. that gliders need daily.

Glider diets have ALL been developed and shared by individuals using the best information available to them at the time. None of the authors have had actual 'recommended daily requirements' to base their diets on. We must all feed our gliders what we believe to be a nutritionally sound diet.

The types of studies being discussed in this thread could NOT be done with funding primarily by donations from this online community. Any study would require many hundred thousands dollars in funding ANNUALLY over several years. That is not going to come $50 - $100 at a time from members of this community. (forgive me if I have overlooked a millionaire or two here that are ready to step up and write the check to bankroll this project)

Any study, even if begun today, would benefit gliders 10 years or more from now. Many glider diets will come and go over that period of time so studying any specific diet would be pointless.

For now, we need to concentrate on contributing to the data pool of information already being gathered by folks like the Sugar Group. Complete their glider health surveys, contribute lab data when your glider has a test done for any reason along with a diet and lineage history for the glider. When your glider is under anesthesia for a required procedure, request that a blood panel be done and submit that report. Necropsy needs to be done on every glider and the report submitted, again with a diet, lineage and medical history for the glider. This data pool over several years will give a lot of baseline information when enough data has been gathered to make comparisons.

Thanks, Candy

I just got back to this thread and was going to say: The closest to this study we are going to get is thesugargroup.com

If you aren't going there and filling out your surveys, if you aren't having your gliders necropsied with a histiopath, you aren't helping! Monetary contributions are great - they can fund the necropsy project. But you also have to be willing to spend the TIME needed to complete the surveys EVERY time something changes with your gliders.

One thing you guys have overlooked in planning your long-term study. Genetic similarity! That's why rats and mice used in research are all albinos. They are genetically similar - over years and years of breeding.

Without genetic similarity, you can't say for certain if a glider develops some organ disease - was it diet, or was it genetics? However, as Candy mentioned, I guess that kind of study isn't what we really need.

I mentioned that in my post, Alden. I tend to agree with both you and Candy on this one.

I think it IS needed. Like mentioned previously, at this point we don't KNOW the diets out there are RIGHT. We BELIEVE they are, we don't know.

But to each their own.

If you feel assuming your glider is healthy based on appearance and life span are good enough, more power to ya.

It might NEED to be but the reality is that you probably won't see that happen. Because of that or until it does happen, what Candy and Alden are talking about is more important NOW. That's what I agree with.

No - we don't know - because, as Candy pointed out, we don't actually know the Daily Recommend Allowance of any nutrients for gliders. Without THAT information, any dietary study is not going to be complete.

We know they need a 2:1 Ca:Ph ratio. But - is that 400 lbs of Calcium to 200 pounds of Phosphorus? Or is it 2 grains of calcium to 1 grain of phosphorus? When you eat, most packaging states that you are eating some percentage of the RDA of some vitamin or mineral. Without THAT information - any diet study would be incomplete.

No one is saying we should "assume a glider is healthy" - Candy was only saying you have to put the cart before the horse.

And, Kyro - I know you did. I was just sort of combining your post and Candy's. And - some other good ideas mentioned in other posts. But - not all the good ideas, of course.

Megs, the point is, as a group, we do not have the resources to do the type of study on specific glider diets that you would like to see.

There are too many variables between the most common diets diets we use at the present time.

A well planned study would take years and would probably use a diet very different from any we now use. The 'study diets' would probably be identical to each other but with one or two nutritional elements different between them. Perhaps a well organized study would first look at different amounts of protein fed over a period of time. Then look at gliders after a period of time with another element of the diet as the variable to be studiet, say sugar/carbohydrates. It would be a long expensive process.

The first thing we would need for such a study is a lottery WINNER to fund it.

Using the currently popular glider diets, it would be impossible to know if differences seen in the gliders, either by lab work or at necropsy, are due to differences in the protein content, sugar amount, citrus vs no citrus, fat content, fiber content, iron, calcium etc. etc.

You cannot scientifically compare things that each have many variables. They results would be nearly impossible to interpret. The answer to such a study would be limited to making a statement that the each of the diets either does or does not generally provide adequate nutrition for gliders.

That is basically what we already know by our collective experiences. The diets that are generally recognized generally appear to provide adequate nutrition for gliders to live a healthy life for how ever long the gliders have been on the diet.

The longer each diet is used and the more lab results and necropsy results that are collected along with a diet history to tie the results to, the more we will know about the value of the current diets over time.

As new diets are introduced - the same information needs to be collected for gliders fed those diets as well.

I'll let you know when I hit the lottery.

Would you let me know, too?

Man! Sugar Glider world is going to SOOO rock when *I* win the lottery!

quote:

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Originally posted by Megs06

See, and I don't. Living out their natural lives means they'd all be passing at different times, which means the study of their organs and tissue samples would not be done together, which, in my opinion, makes the whole thing a flop.

When studies like this are done, because they are so large scale, it's imperative they be done AT THE SAME TIME.

Like I said... Too many people crying out foul and cruel. Sure, it's cruel, you're ending their lives before need be, but when you think of the good it can and WOULD do in the long run, totally worth it.

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My opinion: Worth it? Okay.. Maybe, in the sense that we might gain some insight (then again, we might not), but..To the gliders whose lives are ended early for a research study..? My guess is no.

quote:

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Originally posted by Candy

We do not need a study of the current recognized diets. We need information on the daily nutritional requirements of gliders in captivity. We need guidelines for the amount of protein, carbs, fat, fiber, calcium and other minerals, vitamins etc. that gliders need daily.

Glider diets have ALL been developed and shared by individuals using the best information available to them at the time. None of the authors have had actual 'recommended daily requirements' to base their diets on. We must all feed our gliders what we believe to be a nutritionally sound diet.

The types of studies being discussed in this thread could NOT be done with funding primarily by donations from this online community. Any study would require many hundred thousands dollars in funding ANNUALLY over several years. That is not going to come $50 - $100 at a time from members of this community. (forgive me if I have overlooked a millionaire or two here that are ready to step up and write the check to bankroll this project)

Any study, even if begun today, would benefit gliders 10 years or more from now. Many glider diets will come and go over that period of time so studying any specific diet would be pointless.

For now, we need to concentrate on contributing to the data pool of information already being gathered by folks like the Sugar Group. Complete their glider health surveys, contribute lab data when your glider has a test done for any reason along with a diet and lineage history for the glider. When your glider is under anesthesia for a required procedure, request that a blood panel be done and submit that report. Necropsy needs to be done on every glider and the report submitted, again with a diet, lineage and medical history for the glider. This data pool over several years will give a lot of baseline information when enough data has been gathered to make comparisons.

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Excellent post, Candy! I couldn't agree more.