Ya'll are welcome to sit back and watch my babies-- they have been eating the HPW Plus for several months. I am very happy with this product--I never asked to see studies when I bought the Australian version of protien powder and when I bought it from someone on this site it came in a zip lock bag with a label on it. It had no ingredients listed, no expiration date and no location of manufacturing plant where it was made.With that being said, if the bag had contained crushed sugar cookies and I fed it to my gliders do I blame the person that sold it to me for making my gliders sick or take ownership myself?It is up to you to feed your animals anything you want-- some people feed dogs chicken bones others say no way-- who are we to say what is wrong or right? It is a personal decision.
I am happy an American is taking the step to make a food that is made right here in our own country.Thank you Peggy Brewer for everything you do for the enrichment of gliders.

...umm you do know that that last statement is partly wrong. i use a diet made with ingredients from the US and so do many other people. the diet is LGRS diet and other diets as well. the only thing i have to order is from Oregon. i also think its the most all natural diet there is. so its the owners choice to buy ingredients from Australia. so peggy is just taking the step to find an ingredient made in the us for her diet- HPW diet. we probably wont know 100% how well the diet works till a necropsy is done on the gliders but that wont be for a long time.
i hope this diet works out so it can save the lives of gliders but if your fine making your gliders food and freezing it i still thing that is the best way to go. she may be able to put all kinds of stuff in there but there is no powdered form of love which i make sure its full of fresh love lol : P (just a joke dont take it personally)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Candy</i>
<br />Peggy has not shared the name of the manufacturing company making the new products. She has stated that the product will come with only simple labeling so there will be no fancy packaging.

Unfortunately we could learn more about the product or manufacturer from original packaging.

I am personally not going to try these products until I see her published research or until I have some information on the manufacturer.

I do not buy food products from unknown sources in packages that do not contain any information such as lot number, use by or and expiration date.

I usually purchase Wombaroo High Protein Supplement in original boxes for that reason. I want to know I have a fresh product, not a product that may have gone beyond its expiration date between the time it was been repackaged and the time I purchase it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That bothers me as well, Candy -- the lack of information. I do not understand why that seems to be kept secret.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Skeeter</i>
<br />Ya'll are welcome to sit back and watch my babies-- they have been eating the HPW Plus for several months. I am very happy with this product--I never asked to see studies when I bought the Australian version of protien powder and when I bought it from someone on this site it came in a zip lock bag with a label on it. It had no ingredients listed, no expiration date and no location of manufacturing plant where it was made.With that being said, if the bag had contained crushed sugar cookies and I fed it to my gliders do I blame the person that sold it to me for making my gliders sick or take ownership myself?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The HPW you speak of is older than the NEW HPW PLUS and HPW COMPLETE. HPW has been around for a couple of years and has been fed to hundreds of gliders so the comparison is redundant. There are not many that have tested this NEWER version long enough for me to be convinced that it doesn't have any negative effects.

Not sure who you got yours from, but mine have expiration dates along with the batch number

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Skeeter</i>
<br />Ya'll are welcome to sit back and watch my babies-- they have been eating the HPW Plus for several months. I am very happy with this product--I never asked to see studies when I bought the Australian version of protien powder and when I bought it from someone on this site it came in a zip lock bag with a label on it. It had no ingredients listed, no expiration date and no location of manufacturing plant where it was made.With that being said, if the bag had contained crushed sugar cookies and I fed it to my gliders do I blame the person that sold it to me for making my gliders sick or take ownership myself?It is up to you to feed your animals anything you want-- some people feed dogs chicken bones others say no way-- who are we to say what is wrong or right? It is a personal decision.
I am happy an American is taking the step to make a food that is made right here in our own country.Thank you Peggy Brewer for everything you do for the enrichment of gliders.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I really enjoy how positive you are but please don't forget that she has not released all the manufacturing details, the ingredients could all be imported at cheap outsourcing costs and only assembled within the United States.

Someone said this early but I feel like it is worthy to be repeated, ingredients are not created equal. Quality is something that needs to be considered when making any product and although the ingredients say they're similar things without manufacturing details it is unknown of the quality in which these ingredients were made.

Some may say that I am making mole hills and that maybe true. Some do not care how there apple was grown or where, all they care about is that it is an apple but others like to walk down the street and buy from their local farmers market.

From SGN

<i><b>Lauren:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Peggy I'm sorry I want to ask you a couple questions but your not commenting at GC and I don't go to so I'm going to ask them here. I'm sure you've been asked already but just so I see it from you Smile
1) Who is manufacturing the product I understand its a USA company but what company.
2) Is this company regulated by the FDA, in many ways your packaging vitamins and nutrition for consumption how is the company regulated to make sure they are being sanitary.
3) I'm getting the impression that the manufacture sends this product to you in large quantities and you repackage and distribute it? Is this correct?
4)What was wrong with the original HPW why start from scratch and create a whole new diet why not modify the vitamin and calcium intact on HPW diet to make it more balanced than it was .
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">HPW Plus wrote:
Working on improving the diet for Sugar Gliders for years, Peggy Brewer reached out and worked with a team of some of the best Nutritionists/Chemists & Veterinarians in their fields. Two New Products were Created:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
5)How many vets and nutritionist? Can we be given some names of both. Thank you.

Thanks. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<i><b>Peggy:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Never be sorry to ask questions.

1)I will not be giving the name of the Manufacturing company nor the Nutritionist/Chemist and Veterinarians involved in this until after the Clinical studies are completed and it has been published.
2)I would answer number 2 for you, but I dont understand why it is important if MY powder is made at a FDA place yet for almost 10 years people have been feeding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement and not once have I ever seen that asked about them or about Rep-cal, Herptivite, Suncoast Foods....
3)The items are packaged in FDA, USDA approved bags. Yes, I make my own labels.
4)I never stated anything was *wrong* with the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. I listened to the community for years and heard their concerns, Paswell only has one distributor over here in the states who either does not have enough on hand, or can not keep up with what he is charging from one time to the next. Too many times myself and others have run out of the powder and people went into panics not knowing if they would have enough. Now it is made in the USA...no more worries about customs, shipments, etc.

Dont worry Lauren, I am not taking it as an attack at all. I really dont mind the questions as long as they are legit. :-)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<i><b>Lauren:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Srlb wrote:

2)I would answer number 2 for you, but I dont understand why it is important if MY powder is made at a FDA place yet for almost 10 years people have been feeding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement and not once have I ever seen that asked about them or about Rep-cal, Herptivite, Suncoast Foods....
3)The items are packaged in FDA, USDA approved bags. Yes, I make my own labels.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


2)Its important because you aren't giving the name of your manufacture the other place where the food is created I know where its coming from.
3)I just want to clarify .. packaged .. "in your home/buisness" by you.. If this is so will this be the policy with the people that are also selling this.

I personally feel that you should let people know where this is being made or you need to not sell it until the studies are done. However the people that are currently purchasing this ARE making informed decisions and thats their choice. I can disagree all I want but oh well I'm not the one feeding it. And honestly.. why not Peggy? Why won't you say who is making the powder what difference will a study make in WHO makes it? It matters to us who is making it, but what difference does it make to you ? You of all people being in this community knows how that looks. If you came straight out in the start with who makes this I wouldn't have blinked twice.. but REALLY? I made some extra comments on GC don't really feel like copying and pasting but I know your reading them Peggy. I haven't made a decision on the diet but I have made an opinion on you selling it without naming who's making it. I think its wrong sorry. Thanks for you replies Peggy. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry Peggy I've been reading and processing the past 24 hours so its all coming out now.. How long have you been feeding this to your gliders? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<i><b>Peggy:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Well Kris, havent seen you in a while. Hope all is well with you.

Lauren, sorry you feel that way, but you know, I am not the only person out there that is having items manufactured that do not list the name of the manufacturing company.

If you choose not to use the diet based on that, I respect your decision. I havent been over to GC to read in a few hours, but when I do, I will read what you wrote.

I have personally been feeding this to my gliders for several months.

You asked what is behind this

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Quote:
Ok and ALSO what is with THIS comment?
Q:Why are there a handful of people on Sugar Glider Forums Bashing these products?

Quite simple. There are some folks out there that have had a hold on the market for quite some time. Instead of the concerns being focused on the Sugar Glider, their focus is on their pocketbooks. Since there is an AMERICAN made product manufactured here now, there may not be the need in such a high demand for the Australian Products. This will of course cause a decrease in their overall sales.

There are other folks that just love to create drama and chaos amongst each other.

Those with true questions will ask the question without any malice behind it or intentions to cause strife.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Quite simple, I took some of the most frequently asked questions I received between the time I announced the Powders up to this morning and that was one of the repeated questions. If you had read some of the things being said in different areas you would understand why I believe in the answer I gave. Sorry if it reminds you of anything at all Lauren, I am just posting the way I feel. I am not asking you to agree or disagree with it. I am not saying folks HAVE to feed the Plus or Complete, I am just giving another choice. Much like Coke or Pepsi, now you have an choice.

Kris, I never said that Critter Love was the manufacturer. I said it is being Manufactured for Critter Love.

No, I am not using Paswells Wombaroo High Protein in my product in any way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<b><i>Lauren:</i></b>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But why NOT tell us who is making it? I just don't get it. I understand not talking about what color your panties are but.. this?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Kris:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And peggy, you know far too well.... That when secrets are kept, peoples hair starts to stand up on ends. I remember when you put my diet thru the ringer and you are answering far...far less... not being \'It\'s a beautiful day in this neighborhood\', being away from the glider forums has taken that away in me. Oh and having the love of my life back helps too...just giving you a reminder. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Me:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">No offense Peggy, but the fact that you are hiding who the manufacturer is raising high suspicion and your losing trust throughout the community quick. Why are you making such a big deal out of it? If you're not doing anything wrong, why not answer our SIMPLE question? Who IS the manufacturer? Trust me, there are many, MANY people asking this question.

What reason do you have for not providing this information other than "Well, you don't ask the other people so why ask me?" That's not the point of focus here. We are not discussing those diets, so using that excuse is irrelevant. Can you offer me a valid reason other than the one I just quoted?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


So for all of you who have just now finished reading this. It doesn't look as though we'll be getting an answer about the manufacturer. Sounds a little shady if you ask me. If she's not doing anything wrong, then why should she feel the need to hide such info if it's "not a big deal" to her?? Just saying.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Peggy:
4)I never stated anything was *wrong* with the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. I listened to the community for years and heard their concerns, Paswell only has one distributor over here in the states who either does not have enough on hand, or can not keep up with what he is charging from one time to the next. Too many times myself and others have run out of <b>the powder </b> and people went into panics not knowing if they would have enough. <b>Now it is made in the USA</b>...no more worries about customs, shipments, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No "it" is not being made in the USA.... because the new powder is NOT Wombaroo High Protein supplement (or as people have called it for a number of years in the US, High Protein Wombaroo hence the HPW) as inferred in that statement above.

I personally don't give a rat's katootie if no one in the US buys Wombaroo products but please don't push a totally new product and diet onto the market using the reputation of another product. If the powder is good then it will be able to make it under it's own steam

Even if this product is made in the USA and approved by the FDA I am hesitant to even consider feeding it due to the number of recalls from the FDA and because she won't reveal the manufacturers name.

<i><b>Peggy:</b></i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Kris, I dont recall ever putting your diet through the ringer. Im not even sure how your diet works. I have never been one to fight about diets as we each own gliders and we are each allowed to make our own decisions on what we feed.

As for keeping it a *secret* well, I wouldnt really call it that since I have stated I will let everyone know AFTER the Clinical Studies and other testings are completed.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Quote:
Why are you making such a big deal out of it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No big deal here. I am following the protocol I need to in order to have the Studies done the way the studies need to be done.

On GC there was someone who made a comment about a study taking place currently finding out the Subspecies we have around here. One of the other members put up a link and others decided to start emailing these people.

Once again, if it is stopping you from ordering, I am sorry. I am not telling folks you have to use this diet. I am offering an alternative that I know to be safe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Kris:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm not even trying to dig up the past peggy but you were indeed all over me about getting names, dates, phone numbers and contacts at the sanctuary. Anyway, I wish you great luck and success! Most of all, I hope this diet turns into everything the gliders here in the states need to thrive!

Guys, I think this is much like everything else that happens in the world, people get excited and want to share what they've been working on without looking down the road first. People ask questions, crazy glider people ask more lol! What does Bourbon always say? Keep asking til you're at peace with the answer, either good or bad!
This all just comes down to trust. People need to know their gliders food is safe and cheap ingredients aren't being substituted or heck bleach isn't in the powder. I think most people would be very comfortable"if" Peggy was mixing it herself, but since she says she's not who is, is a very reasonable question.

Hugs to everyone<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Nikki:</b></i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Posted on and here since some are not on there.

Peggy - When will the studies be complete for you to post the results and the manufacturer of the product. I think answering this will help out a lot. Even if it is just an estimated time frame. If the studies are not going to be complete for some time (6 months to a year). Why announce this new diet now?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Me:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That's what I want to know, if this diet is still undergoing testing and studies, then perhaps you should have waited until they were done before releasing the new diets?

I just don't understand, if you feel comfortable enough to release the diet now, then you SHOULD also be comfortable releasing the manufacturer info as well. How is it that providing this information would interfere with the studies being done?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Peggy:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As I posted on :


I am not in charge of the Clinical Studies, I am not sure exactly how long they take, but I do know to do them correctly it does take quite a bit of time. I am not holding them to a time frame, I am just holding them to do it correctly. If I give an answer like it could take 9 months to a year and at the end of a year, if it isnt complete people will throw a fit. I would rather not give a time frame and just say, once it is published, I will share it.

As for the Manufacturer, once again, I would like to challenge you all to go look in your cubbards, look at your labels on the items you have in your home that YOU eat....does it list the manufacture company or does it say Manufactured For or Distributed for...

Again if you do not feel comfortable with the diet, choose to stay on the diet you are currently feeding. I am just offering another option.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I work in the food industry for a large fast food chain and I just went and did a quick inventory of the food items that we serve to the public. Not one item says exactly where something is manufactured at. They have manufacturing numbers but not an actual name of where it was made at.

And I have never once had a customer ask me where something was manufactured at. And if they did, all I could tell them was manufacturer #176 or #253 etc..

I dont know where the beans come from to make our chili, nor do I know where the meat comes from that we cook and serve, I dont know where the fries come from and I have no idea where the produce comes from to make our salads.

I know what company it is all distributed by though, but not actually where its manufactured.

I wouldn't mind giving this product a trial run with some of my gliders who tend to be picky. Although, I do agree with everyone else that I would like to information disclosed as to who the manufacturing company is and what regulations they have to ensure quality control. Some items may not have where the product is manufactured listed on the label, BUT you can easily call the company who makes or distributes the product and they will give you that information. You can also do a simple online search as well.

Not giving out any information regarding where this product is being made or where the ingredients are being sourced from is kind of shady. To put the product on the market before clinical trials and studies have been concluded doesn't seem like the best decision to me. Yes, the current product could be used on a handful of gliders for several months with great results, but who is to say it is not causing an underlying problem to develop? For all we know, by the time the clinical trials and studies conclude they could have found out that it causes life-threatening illnesses or taxes the organs in one way or another. By that time, it's the creator's gliders and those lead to believe that this product is safe because it is represented by the maker of HPW (which has been time tested and proven).

I do believe it is everyone's own decision as to what to feed our beloved pets, but when we make those decisions, we have the resources to find out any and all questions about that product. Now, when you create a new product under the name of HPW Plus or HPW Complete, those who don't do their research might as well assume that it is the original HPW modified and switch over, not knowing it's a completely different product or that any good or bad effects on gliders has been proven. For example, if Fischer Price has been selling the same dollhouses and toys for years and they suddenly come out with a Fischer Price Plus line made with a lower grade outsourced material to make new dollhouses and did not inform us, I would assume those new dollhouses and toys made by a trusted name were of good quality just as the previous products. Then suddenly, you get reports of some pieces easily breaking off and children choking on them or some kind of chemical or substance in the lower grade material deemed hazardous.

It is incredibly misleading and irresponsible to use the HPW name with a totally new diet and not have any published research done before marketing the product. Although, Peggy does explain that it is our choice to switch or not to the product if you're unhappy with the current diet being fed, I still believe the name could potentially mislead people to thinking it is the original HPW with a better Calcium to Phosphorus ratio, by the time they figure out it is a completely different product they could have ill or deceased gliders on their hands.

By no means, am I saying Peggy Brewer has bad intentions with the product. I only mean to give my personal opinion and question why we are not being given this crucial information regarding her newest product until research has been published. To me that says she doesn't fully trust that this product is safe for gliders and doesn't want to reveal this information until researchers can give their two cents about it. Yet, she has released this product without any data to back it up and is telling people that essentially, it is a try it at your own risk deal.

I would love to see a simpler diet put onto the market such as HPW Plus and HPW Complete, but please, don't release a product before it has undergone clinical trials. I'm pretty sure that when a new dog food is released it undergoes clinical trials for several years before being put on the market. If these trials weren't done on dog foods and a brand was released and people flocked to purchase the new product and suddenly their dogs were falling ill with kidney or liver failure, or any other array of illnesses, the company marketing the product would be held responsible. Even then, nothing is 100%, which is why you still see pet food recalls on a daily basis due to quality control or other issue. Who wants to try a product without trials to back it up only to have the possibility of recall? I'd feel better if it had the trials to back it up and then have a recall done. At least I knew the product itself is proven safe and the recall is only being done due to a localized incident in the packaging or manufacturing process not in part to the product as a whole.

i havent finished reading all the new post yet but just wanted to say that dont like it dont use it isnt a good excuse. dont like the way that PPP sells and treats their gliders then dont buy from them, dont like this other person's diet even though it has some things wrong then dont use it, dont like the wheel in that person's picture well its not your wheel and your gliders cage so you shouldnt worry about it, see a picture of a glider and a cat together in a picture and the person say my cat and glider love to play with each other, we would probably start telling them the dangers of doing that but its not your glider so not your problem. wasnt there also a certain crazy discussion about a certain intro method that people didnt like, well they didnt have to use it but it was discussed anyways because they were worried about new people trying it.
we do all of this for not only that person but to warn new people who see or read it that that is not a good idea. we want to protect and help as many gliders as we can that is why most people are active on forums to learn and help others.
i would really like to know what is replacing the Wombaroo and with out that isnt it losing its thing as being closer to their natural diet and is just like any other diet now since its not from Australia.
so we may not get to see the studies for a year or two years or longer or maybe it will be less but who knows all i know is that that is a long time for some trusting new glider owner or someone who trust peggy and uses this and it ends up hurting their glider in some way. i hate it when people bring in what we eat and if we are as careful and stuff. i know i do not eat the healthiest things but i dont care that is my choice but my gliders are depending on me to make sure that they get safe food and i always say its better to be safe then sorry. you also cant bring in other animals as examples because thats different this is a small community of sugar glider owners its tiny compared to common animals like cats and dogs.

The response to Newbie aka Sherri from SGN:

<i><b>Lauren:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ok but we are talking about larger companies that ARE regulated by law everyone knows that rats fall into ketchup factories while its cooking, but how do you know that rats didn't fall into you HPW plus while it was cooking? Also "Made in the USA" doesn't me diddly squat in my book just because it was put together in the USA doesn't make it american. What about the ingredience ? Where were they made? What if we can't get THOSE products anymore in the US we could be in the same situation. No names, no study, not even a full break down of ingredience (I just heard this not sure so that is question). Again I don't care about FDA per say just want to know what regulations insure that this is being made safely? Peggy have you been to this company? Watched how the produce the product? Again you've told me why we don't need to know who makes it but you haven't told me why not tell us. If you said right now who makes it what would be the negatives. I don't think you trying to trick, lie, cheat us; I just want to know. Yes I'm not buying it so thats my choice but Peggy you are launching his very publicly with very few details so far your just like every other person launching their own diets with no studies info ANYTHING, and like those I won't feed it but in the past we've had negative results on people feeding these diets cause they blindly go into it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<i><b>Megan:</b></i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Even ingredients in the US can have a shortage. Arbonne has a temporary stop sell on a product due to an ingredient shortage in the US. Just because something is made in the US doesn't make it perfect or invincible. Also, human food doesn't list manufacturing locations. Possibly because they don't have to and possibly for protection from other companies that would be inclined to talk to the manufacturer and find out the proprietary recipe/formulation. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.....

Who amongst you can honestly say you KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS to the ALL the questions in this post regarding the diet YOU currently feed? I am certain the answer will be not that many of you do.

Ive been here almost 5 years and I cant tell you how many times Ive seen someone post what they feed and 10 members will jump in and blindly follow.

That being said....most of the questions being asked are legitmate and Ive enjoyed seeing the answers to them as much as all of you have. It's impressive to see so many are concerned about what goes in their babies mouths.

There has been many a heated diet discussion here and there will be many more to come. Its just the nature of the beast....

Well said, Rita. It seems the focus is on the wrong things.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />Well said, Rita. It seems the focus is on the wrong things.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I disagree. I dont trust that woman based on historical actions and all the diet discussions in the world or support of capitalism or any other diversions she or her business partners throw out there will not change that.

As far as the existing product statement, fourth on the list is Cereal Grains, which pretty much equals corn.

Has anyone compared her ingredients list to her buddy Virgil Klunder's Vet's Pride crap? I would bet my left nut that he is involved with the manufacturing of this stuff at any rate.


This is an interesting read if you have an hour to spend.
Cereal Grains: Humanity's Double-Edged Sword

I just mean being focused on WHERE she posts or WHO the manufacturer is. I don't feel like those are important things to make a huge deal out of. Like mentioned, you can't find who the manufacturer is on most food items.

I'm not saying the questions/ingredients/studies/sources, etc... aren't important. They are.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />I work in the food industry for a large fast food chain and I just went and did a quick inventory of the food items that we serve to the public. Not one item says exactly where something is manufactured at. They have manufacturing numbers but not an actual name of where it was made at.

And I have never once had a customer ask me where something was manufactured at. And if they did, all I could tell them was manufacturer #176 or #253 etc..

I dont know where the beans come from to make our chili, nor do I know where the meat comes from that we cook and serve, I dont know where the fries come from and I have no idea where the produce comes from to make our salads.

I know what company it is all distributed by though, but not actually where its manufactured.
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I worked in the food industry for about a decade. We could trace the majority of our products back to its origin. I was not in fast food like you, so I can suppose I can understand why you're unable to trace product. I am of the mind that if don't know where it's coming from it probably isn't the best idea to stick it in your mouth and swallow.

fastfood places are not the healthiest places to eat anyways. remember the recent story about tacobell not serving real meat even though they say it is, turned out to also have soy in it (google it for more accurate details). so if your using that to compare to peggy's diet its not a very good one since fastfood isnt even good for us and what i said earlier. im not saying the diet is like fastfood (even though it is fast food lol XD)
i do know partly about the Trader Darwin's Vanilla Flavored Soy and trader joes is mostly an environmentally friendly store,you can only get Dehydrated Fly Pupae from OregonFeederInsects.com, then there is the bees pollen, the orange juice and yogurt i use is recommended by both ed and Dahlia_2020 the rest is fresh fruit and honey. i also grow whatever fruit and veggies i can in my garden.
we are all hypocrites every now and then. its just a part of being human.

I'm not using it to compare the 2. If you would have read it for what it was you would have noticed that I was talking about not being able to find out WHERE the manufacturer was for the food that we eat. The same applies to stuff you buy at the grocery store. Most lables do NOT have a manufacturer location on it. Distributed at or manufactured for, but not an actual location that its manufactured AT.

thats what i did. im guessing a place like taco bell gets their meat from a manufacturer where its made into the meat they use which is only 35% meat the rest is other stuff its not bad but it could have been. in case anyone doesnt know what im talking about click the link. www.wwltv.com/news/health/LSU-professor-sheds-light-on-Taco-Bell-meat-controversy-115961599.html
one part of it was meant more light heartedly, that hpw complete and fastfood places shouldnt be used together since it is a fast way to make glider food. was not saying that was what you were talking about. that was more of the first part of it. >.< cant think of a way to explain it with out ranting or repeating stuff

>.< had to take care of kid and other stuff in the middle of writing so ill just end the post with this. i dont think we should compare gliders to humans or how we care for ourselves. im a picky eater and i know i am far from eating correctly and im out of shape but im still thin,can use my arms and legs(dont have HLP), can do all kinds of things still. but if gliders dont get the right amount of calcium they can develop HLP and if the diet is not right their fur will go from grey to brown. the stuff for humans is way more advance then glider food or medical care, i can communicate with others and make choices,gliders hide illnesses and cant tell us. if you must compare gliders to humans then compare them to babies. i know i would be more picky about what i feed my child if i had one. every/most parents are more protective of their children and what effects them and wants the best for them. thats how it is with the gliders they are my children,my babies,my family so are my other animals. im sure other owners feel the same. i also care about other gliders and animals that are not my own just like how people feel sorry for kids in bad conditions that they see on tv(or those one donation commercials)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />I'm not using it to compare the 2. If you would have read it for what it was you would have noticed that I was talking about not being able to find out WHERE the manufacturer was for the food that we eat. The same applies to stuff you buy at the grocery store. Most lables do NOT have a manufacturer location on it. Distributed at or manufactured for, but not an actual location that its manufactured AT.
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Making comparisions to mass poduction companies is redundant. They have competition, so of course they aren't going to provide their manufacturers. They are also in it for the money, not for the greater good of human kind.
Peggy has no competition, and claims that these diets are about the greater good of these gliders and not the profit. If that is in fact the case, I wouldn't see any harm disclosing this information.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kazko</i> As far as the existing product statement, fourth on the list is Cereal Grains, which pretty much equals corn. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've been staying way out of this but I need to bring this to attention.

www.wombaroo.com.au/high_protein_supplement.htm

THIRD on WHPS ingredients list is ground cereal grains. Funny no one has a problem with it coming from them? Only when it comes from someone else making it.

Has anybody actually sat down and taken a look at the ingredients in BOTH before whining about the ingredients? HPW Plus has more ingredients in it than the original WHPS but they have many ingredients in common.

Same ingredients:
Whey protein, soy protein, ground cereal grains, dextrose, maltodextrin, Lysine, methionine, vegetable oils, Omega 3 fatty acids (flaxseed oil), niacinomide (nicotinomide), biotin, folic acid, calcium (does not specify sources in WHPS), vitamin E, vitamin A, Vitamin B12, vitamin C (ascorbic acid), Vitamin K(Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex), copper(Copper Sulfate), Vitamin B2 (riboflavin), Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrichloride), zinc, vitamin D3, vitamin B1 (thiamine mononitrate), Iron (ferrous sulfate), selenium (sodium selenite), pantothenic acid (calcium pantothenate)

Ingredients in HPW plus NOT in WHPS:
calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, silicon dioxide, natural and artificial flavors, Calcium Iodate( to prevent iodine deficiency)

Ingredients in WHPS NOT in HPW plus:
iodine.

It actually bothers me a little more that WHPS does not specify the chemical compounds that produce the vitamins and minerals. They just list them. WHPS also does not specify if their vegetable oil contains BHT/BHA (not saying it DOES, but it makes you wonder since they are preservatives and the powder needs to be preserved somehow).

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]Originally posted by Kazko
Has anyone compared her ingredients list to her buddy Virgil Klunder's Vet's Pride crap? I would bet my left nut that he is involved with the manufacturing of this stuff at any rate. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please let me know where you see similarities. Other than the parts that may actually be ok for sugar gliders (aka the vitamin). -gasp-

www.vetspride.com/message.php?name=productlabels


ETA: I do not condone mill brokers nor do I support them.