<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


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Nice! So whats <i>your</i> connection with PPP...... minion #2.
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Awwww Rico you are so predictable. For the record as well.... I am Minion #1. Want to know my connection to PPP?
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Sure, how are you connected to the biggest glider mill? You are proud of being minion #1? That figures.

I'm sorry, I would never deal with someone or listen to someone that deals with the biggest glider MILL in the US. These people are NOT in it for the good of the animal. And when you are in bed with them or have a hand in their pocket, you are just as bad, shame on you!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sjones5254</i>
<br />Jazz there are days I just love YA
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LOL! Well thank you.

It is not my intent to trash finnessa or anyone else. I have nothing against her, just trying to shine a different light on these things.

I personally am in diet limbo and am trying to learn all I can but it's hard when things get nasty and I don't think anyone wants to keep information from people who want to learn.

I still forever wish there could be one drama-free thread about each "major" diet. I also have zero against any of the people posting or posted about. I'm a big fan of facts.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sjones5254</i>
<br />Jazz there are days I just love YA
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LOL! Well thank you.

It is not my intent to trash finnessa or anyone else. I have nothing against her, just trying to shine a different light on these things.

I personally am in diet limbo and am trying to learn all I can but it's hard when things get nasty and I don't think anyone wants to keep information from people who want to learn.
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That is why I switched to LGRS Suggie Soup because there are no fights , arguments or MINIONS trying to make sure they support there masters. Ed is always very helpful to answer any questions and help find a way each owners gliders will eat it. If that means changing parts of the diet he's ok with that just ask him what you are trying to achieve. I was using OHPW and i needed to puree the fruits in the HPW and was told by Peggy it was not advised to do any modifications so I found a diet creator that would work with me to modify the diet to suit my babies.

I think maybe what she meant was it's not advised to blend them up, add them to the OHPW then freeze. I don't believe there's an issue with blending them up and adding them together at feeding time.

Or were you wanting to do it all at mixing time? I may be misunderstanding you. But yes, I would imagine she would advise against blending then freezing all together. I think that may be because it limits the variety of fruits and veggies you can offer if there are already SET f/v IN the mix, know what I mean?

DISCLAIMER: NONE OF THIS CAME FROM PEGGY,...IT'S ALL ME SPITBALLING!

And yes, Ed has always been very nice when I ask him about his diet, and I don't even feed it... I get tempted from time to time.

I needed to blend the fruits with the HPW and freeze :) Mine wouldn't at the time touch their fruits at all.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />I still forever wish there could be one drama-free thread about each "major" diet. I also have zero against any of the people posting or posted about. I'm a big fan of facts.
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I am right with you on this one! Being a relatively new owner to gliders (again, had them years and years ago), I am doing what I have done with everything living that I am responsible for (kids, cats, dogs, hermit crabs, you name it), I want the very best for them in EVERY aspect. I want to have fact based information but also gleam as much as I can from those that have used products/ diets, you name it for years. Just as I rely on my parents wisdom from the years on this earth! Wish I was this wise when I was a teenager or young adult,lol.

I have picky gliders. I know that it isn't good or advised to change diets with frequency but I also know that mine seem to be content to almost starve vs eating some of the diets, fruits, veggies that others gliders seem to love and thrive upon. I have gone back to OHPW with modification that suit my gliders. But, at the same time, unbiased information about ANY diet/wheel/cage set/cage/water bottle, etc, etc that I can read about is always welcome. I come on these boards to learn.

We all know that we are human and thus have emotions that revolve around most aspects of our lives. Thus, while it may seem like drama, I for one, feel it is simply the emotional aspects coming to light in the first post or so and then it is like a spat between others defending themselves when in reality, there was nothing to defend. Diet is such a heated topic to glider owners and to other some animal owners. Every forum that i have ever belonged to had some aspects that others would defend to the very last word. Again, just human nature in my opinion. As a nurse, I have dealt with all types of humans for some time. I love my job and try to learn something from every person I come into contact with weather I like them, agree with them, or whatever. I don't always agree with my own mother about things but I take the information she has given me, think about it, use some of it and discard the rest. Do I sometimes say things while discussing issues with her that each of us take to mean something negative? Most definitively!!!! This is especially true when we are having discussion over email vs in person where you interact and talk back and forth TOGETHER, can see and hear what the other person is saying. I believe that because forums lack the last ability, things are taken out of context so to speak! All this is just my take on human nature and just my 2 cents on the whole diet debate.

Now, what about those flower post? I would LOVE to grow flowers for my babies and see if they will enjoy them. If I grow them, then I will know they are pesticide free. But what if you buy the plants from a nursery? Do you start with seeds so essentially you know that the plant/flower never came in contact with pesticides? Seems to me if I went to Lowes or some place similar, the plant would have been sprayed at some point in time. But, if the flower that eventually blooms from said plant has been grown at my home and never sprayed, would that be safe?

Rico, I was being sarcastic as always, I actually have nothing to do with PP/PPP/Mill breeding at all. In fact I've never even seen one of their displays in person. I live in bumblefick nowhere. They don't come here in my neck of the woods.


Jazzy, I do clearly have personal issues with Alden that will never be dealt with being we don't see eye to eye and never have. I used to look up to her but she blew that out of the water long ago. However my intentions before last nights petty posts back and forth were not at all to discredit her or the diet. I simply asked questions that I thought needed clarification. Nothing more than that. I think it's a great idea to have another option out there if possible. I don't ever bash diets themselves. I rarely ever post on diet threads unless it's OHPW/Plus related as these are the only 2 diets I've ever fed and can give an opinion on. I posted on this one and the GC one because even before seeing the actual emails for myself before they were posted I knew something was missing or misread. I asked questions to see why and I am sarcastic by nature. Believe it or not I'm not actual mean(well maybe a little lol). I tend to be just sarcastic mostly though and have no harsh or negative feelings behind anything I post. I truly have no anger or hatred toward anyone in the community although there are a few that I may not agree with or see eye to eye on things with but I don't hate them nor do I hate Alden. Some people just aren't meant to mesh and that has been us from our first encounter back on TSS many months ago.

I am walking away from this thread now. I really see no point in stirring an empty pot any longer and until we can actually have all the components to this diet in the states it's kinda pointless to ask questions that will never be answered anyway.

I'll cause trouble elsewhere as always Love ya's *MUAH*

Well thank you for your graciousness to my posts and allowing me to speak my mind without feeling like I was attempting to attack you. You taking them as they were meant to be is appreciated.

I agree, this thread is probably dead until maybe some more emails/info. is exchanged from Mr. Rich. I hope he continues to share.

I just mad up the diet today. Instead of using a biscuit, which I, too, feel has very little nutritional value, I mixed the HPs with applesauce and cranberry juice. The only thing is convincing them to eat it...

I know exactly what you mean Grace..... after all the floundering I did as a new owner I thought I finally got the diet down,...now the little monkies have thrown a wrench into things and I'm back to square one!

If only they knew what was good for them... I feel like tonight determines my sanity. It's quite sad, once you think about it...

AMEN SISTER SARAH! Same here and I know whats in it. Ed is wonderful...so is Gail I'm sure.<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sjones5254</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sjones5254</i>
<br />Jazz there are days I just love YA
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LOL! Well thank you.

It is not my intent to trash finnessa or anyone else. I have nothing against her, just trying to shine a different light on these things.

I personally am in diet limbo and am trying to learn all I can but it's hard when things get nasty and I don't think anyone wants to keep information from people who want to learn.
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That is why I switched to LGRS Suggie Soup because there are no fights , arguments or MINIONS trying to make sure they support there masters. Ed is always very helpful to answer any questions and help find a way each owners gliders will eat it. If that means changing parts of the diet he's ok with that just ask him what you are trying to achieve. I was using OHPW and i needed to puree the fruits in the HPW and was told by Peggy it was not advised to do any modifications so I found a diet creator that would work with me to modify the diet to suit my babies.
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Ugh I said I wasn't posting here anymore....

Grace how did you make this diet up without the Small Carnivore Diet?

I have the insectivore-fare, however, they don't touch it. The only pellets my gliders will eat are the cheap ones from petsmart. The sunseed stuff. For some reason, that stuff is glider-crack for them... they're some strange gliders...

Ah ok. I have some that are picky and won't eat any kind but cat food, I've never tried the sunseed one but only because that little jar wouldn't last me but one feeding with all my gliders.

Well, I introduced it to them. The applesauce/cranapple juice/HPs is a huge hit with Cybil. Cordelia prefers the fruits and veggies that are coated in the powder. The crickets in the tent were also a hit, though Cordelia prefers me to catch them for her...

wow, really? the one my girls came with was this one: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754193

The first few ingredients aren't great, but then again, they aren't horrible... They could be worse-like glide-r-chow worse. They lived off of these for a year before I got them.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by shadow</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br />It's been stated many times across many forums HPW meant "Here's Peggy's Way"

You can choose to name a diet after me if you wish, just be sure to spell my name correctly please. It's 2 n's
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can you show us a post from back when peggy named the diet and her stating this is what HPW stand for? that would be great if you could.
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This is from Peggy's book:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grace</i>
<br />wow, really? the one my girls came with was this one: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754193

The first few ingredients aren't great, but then again, they aren't horrible... They could be worse-like glide-r-chow worse. They lived off of these for a year before I got them.
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I don't know anything of it but I wouldn't feed it being it only comes in that little can and I have 13 soon to be 14 cages of gliders here with a total of about 40 gliders between adults (breeding and not) and joeys. I have fed cat food, Mazuri 5MA5 and Happy Glider. I love the Mazuri. If I could get it local I'd only use that but monkeys are illegal here so our food stores/pet stores refuse to order it in for me.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


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Nice! So whats <i>your</i> connection with PPP...... minion #2.
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Seriously? Oh my you are too funny! Everyone has to be associated with PPP? That is a riot!

I don't even know how you got the idea that this thread would even have anything to do with PPP, which it doesn't. You crack me up Catman!

Ah, yea, finnessa... that's oodles and oodles of gliders

whoah.... finessa, i thought i had a problem, embarrassed to tell people i have 10 gliders and one on order, they call me a glider hoarder. i can tell them you have 40!!!

From: Gordon Rich
Date: March 20, 2012

Hi Alden,

I’ve had a quick look at links to the glider forums. Its probably easiest if I just answer any specific questions rather than get involved in the forums. It is important to reiterate that Wombaroo HPS is not promoted as a complete diet, and that our dietary recommendations are simply guidelines based on our long term experience with captive Sugar Gliders. Wombaroo HPS is a very useful and versatile supplement that can be used to boost essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals in the diet of Sugar Gliders. How it is applied can vary greatly from user to user – if people are happy with their current feeding regime and their animals are healthy then we recommend they stick to what works for them.

Just one point, someone asked me about the Mazuri Insectivore Diet, which I said to you looks OK at first glance. At second glance I did notice that the iron levels are quite high in this product (350ppm compared to about 70ppm for Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food and 40ppm for Wombaroo HPS). Now this is not a huge problem unless the Mazuri Insectivore Diet is used as a large proportion of the diet which it probably isn’t (I wouldn’t have it at more than 20% of the diet anyway).

I have inserted my answers in blue italics to the questions raised below:

I’ve sent this email from a different address, but if you have any questions please forward them to our usual address: wombaroo@adelaide.on.net

Kind Regards,

Gordon.



From: Kyrie's Mom#8232;Sent: Saturday, 17 March 2012#8232;
Hello, Mr. Rich -

I've begun a discussion on two of the American sugar glider forums. If you have time in your day to take a look:
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41600
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1239633/The_Wombaroo_High_Protein_Diet#Post1239633

Some questions that I didn't think to ask have already been generated there. I know you are probably very busy and don't have much time to "forum lurk" - so I'll relay some of the questions to you here, in order to summarize. (Sorry if the colors are too confusing to read - I was trying to separate the questions from my comments.)

<b>"I would be interested to know if the Paswell folks had any input into Exotic Nutrition's "Instant HPW", or if they were made aware that Exotic Nutrition is selling repackaged Wombaroo High Protein Supplement with the bee pollen added for making Peggy's recipe for her original HPW Diet."</b> <i>Wombaroo has had no input on Exotic Nutrition’s Instant HPW. Neither are we aware of any repackaging of our products in the US – this is not really a concern for us, so long as it is not being called “Wombaroo”. Once our products have been repackaged we have no legal responsibility for the product.
</i>#8232;

<b>"If you mix the powder with honey and or green juice, do you omit the water? Do you omit the arrowroot biscuit totally? Again, my gliders love the OHPW</b> (Mr. Rich, here the person is referring to what we call "The Original HPW Diet" - this meaning the mix I detailed in my very first email to you, and the one "invented" by Ms. Brewer) a<b>nd lick it clean so if I had the biscuit, they may not eat all of it."</b> <i>You can make it up to whatever consistency you require. The “green juice” is mostly water so will be quite fluid, whereas honey usually needs to be diluted with water to thin it out. The biscuit we use is simply a vehicle for adding the HPS – you can replace it with another palatable food source.</i>
<b>
#8232;"What do you moisten the dry food with?"</b> <i>You can moisten dry food with a 25% (weight per volume) solution of HPS which is approximately 1 part HPS to 3 parts water</i>

<b>#8232;'Is Mr. Rich also saying that if your gliders are consuming the OHPW as directed, then the variety of fruits and veggies isn't as big a concern as some make it out to be? My gliders prefer veggies to fruit almost always. They rarely eat ANY fruit that we give them no matter what form we try (smoothies, chopped small, left whole, whatever)."</b> <i>We can’t give recommendations on the OHPW diet as we don’t have a full nutritional breakdown of this diet. As long as any fruits or vegetables are directly supplemented with Wombaroo HPS, then you can be satisfied that the diet is well-balanced.</i>

<b>#8232;"Is the implication that bee pollen isn't necessary to add to OHPW?"</b><i>Once again we can’t comment on the OHPW diet. However the addition of bee pollen to a diet supplemented with Wombaroo HPS is uneccessary.</i>

<b>"So, am I reading it correctly that Mr. Rich recommends sprinkling DRY powder over the fruit and veggies? My concern with this is that my gliders are very very picky and tend to pick and choose what F/V they want to eat each night thus that would be a non measurable amount of powder consumed that way."</b> <i>If you supplement all fruit & veg with Wombaroo HPS then whatever they eat will be adequately supplemented.</i>

<b>"What about gliders that won't eat euc or any type flowers?"</b> <i>Not a real problem as these are largely behavioural enrichments for captive animals rather than dietary requirements. Most people tend to overfeed their gliders so they are not interested in foraging for “real food” anyway!</i>
<b>
#8232;"So instead of the biscuit or cookie, we can just use honey or fruit juice and give them 2 ml of that?"</b> <i>Yes</i>

<b>"The 20g of fruits/veggies... how much would that be in tablespoons?"</b> <i>Roughly 2 heaped tablespoons, depending on the density of the fruit/veg in question and how heaped your spoon is. The best way is to weigh it out and you can see for yourself (20g is 0.7 oz)</i> (Honestly, I tried to figure out your conversions using an online program, because I knew this question would be asked. Your directions in one part are 1 part HPS™ powder (25g) into 3 parts warm water (75ml). I'm not sure how to convert what appears to be a weight combined with what is a volume? Sorry - my brain can do the metric conversions usually, but I can't figure out how to get "grams" to "tablespoons"!) <i>You can’t – ones a weight and the other is a volume – just convert the grams into ounces and the ml into fluid oz. This means about 0.88 oz of powder (25g) to 2.5 fluid oz (75ml) of water. It is always useful to initially weigh out a standard measure of powder (ie a tablespoon)to get an idea of how much powder you are using.</i>

I'm very excited that this dialog has begun on the forums. We flounder around about sugar glider diets so much here in the States. We love our little gliders, and everyone wants what is healthy for them! But, not many can agree what that is.

Thank you!
Alden

Muah Alden!

I sent them an email 2 days ago and still haven't heard back from them.... Alden is that second part of your post a direct email that he answered and sent back or is that another one of your hack job copy and paste to suit your needs thing?

Alden not sure if you realized that book was wrote in 2007, things have changed, the name of the diet changed after the book was published, but also the usage of raw honey and several other bit outdated things published in the book. Don't we typically move forward in time? Don't things change every day in the glider world? We learn something new or an improvement to a way and history is then replaced with the new/improved ways/names and so on. Kinda like that book by Carolyn Macphearson that everyone still tells people to read suggests the cat food diets yet we don't encourage people to feed that anymore. Peggy has referred to her diet as a different name than in her book for several years now. Is Peggy the only person who is supposed to be stuck in history while everyone else moves forward?

People let it GO

I emailed him 4 days ago and got a reply today. They seem swamped with emails, so I didn't mind. He sent me a pfd on the diet instructions per glider. I don't know about you all, but I'm willing to listen to someone who has 20+ years of experience, vs 10. This diet was created based on tons of research and a nutritional breakdown of every single molecule in the HPW powder. My gliders actually like the powder sprinkled on the fruits and veggies. I've learned that if the f/v soak up the powder easier when they are prechopped and frozen. As they thaw, they release some of their liquids, resulting in a cube of fruit that is soggy and has the ability to soak up the HPW better. He told me that you don't actually need the wombaroo carnivore diet. You can substitute it with a variety of feeder insects instead. He also told me that the amount of insects to feed each glider per day would be roughly the size of 4 large crickets.
Those who feel quite confident with their diets, fine. Don't change. He's simply providing us with helpful information. It's your choice whether or not you decide to accept it.

Why is this thread still going on? finnessa, why would you insinuate Alden was copying and pasting? The email seemed to make perfect sense to me by just reading it. It rolled well together and didn't appear to be choppy showing copy and paste. I don't normally get perterbed at people but you are one that just needs a serious yea....that. So, the only thing I can think to say to you is finnessa, back
to your bridge you evil little troll! <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sjones5254</i>
<br />
People let it GO
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