<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by valkyriemome</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br /> the Master Minion <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is a contradiction in terms. One can either be a Master or a Minion.

The word Minion is rather interesting. It comes from the same source as "filet mignion." It specifically refers to the humans under another person's thrall as being "tasty, tender morsels."

Just thought I'd share. I find it amusing.

Perhaps you meant the Master of the Minions?
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I guess you'll have to wait and see at the SGGA

Good deal - I'll stop off and talk to my nursery down the street. It'll be a nice toy/forage/treat for them :-)

I thought about putting a very shallow long flat lid of growing clover/grass/dandelion in there for them to play in. I hate that they've never had their little toes in the grass and dirt.

I grow pansys, nasturtium and zinnia for my animals every year. Don't forget roses!

I've started growing hibiscus. Hopefully it will work. Oh! And Rose of Sharon.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by valkyriemome</i>
<br />Finnessa and Sherri - I observe that you ladies are very loyal to Peggy. She should certainly sleep well knowing the two of you have her back!

However, I'm not taking Peggy or HPW on here. It was not my intention. I personally have been on a glider diet quest, and I posted what I've learned. It is my hope that others may find the discussion interesting.

However - randomly grasping at straws, throwing up any possible argument no matter how petty in an attempt to defend both a person and a diet that wasn't ever attacked is tedious, transparent and annoying.

Shadow - there are FAR more posts where it is stated, by The Creator, that HPW was named for the Wombaroo powder. I'm sure Finnessa is aware of that. I know you are also.

If anyone has any further questions with which I can be of assistance, please let me know. I've posted what I intended to post. I welcome any further questions from people who are genuinely interested. However, at this point, I've pretty much exhausted all my information, and I'd most likely direct your questions to the Wombaroo company. I'm not really interested in entertaining questions from those looking to pick a fight.

If anyone does ask questions of the Wombaroo company, please come back and post their answers! It would be educational for all of us, and I'm very interested.
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Assumptions are sad Alden. Where's your big girl panties today? No one brought feelings into anything until you did tonight.

As for your assumption I'd know of any such thing you are wrong. I wouldn't/couldn't/don't care less what the name of a diet is called now or 7/8 years ago. I know what I've been told since entering the community and that's enough for me.

Where in that GC link does she speak of her actual diet? I see the mention of her using the powder product but no mention of a diet of hers.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hypnotist321</i>
<br />Good deal - I'll stop off and talk to my nursery down the street. It'll be a nice toy/forage/treat for them :-)

I thought about putting a very shallow long flat lid of growing clover/grass/dandelion in there for them to play in. I hate that they've never had their little toes in the grass and dirt.
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make sure they dont spray anything on their flowers/plants. i have some of those flowers that were brought up but im not sure if it would be good to give to the gliders since something could have gotten sprayed on them. though i never put anything near or directly on my flowers since its a butterfly garden.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hypnotist321</i>
<br />Good deal - I'll stop off and talk to my nursery down the street. It'll be a nice toy/forage/treat for them :-)

I thought about putting a very shallow long flat lid of growing clover/grass/dandelion in there for them to play in. I hate that they've never had their little toes in the grass and dirt.
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Why not build an outdoor cage that's floor is the ground? I don't know if this is safe as I never plan to do it so I haven't looked into it. But it would let them experience some of the outdoors when the weather's right. Obviously WITH supervision of course.

And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.

Do you plan on posting the whole conversation over here as well Alden or was that only for GC? I really think you should post it over here as well. If your going to skew the facts, at least let people see what you had twisted to fit your needs.


I have no problem with people feeding this diet or any other diet for that matter, but to claim that this one is so simple when in truth it really isn't is just false advertising in my opinion.

People could feed spaghettio's to their gliders with fruits and veggies everyday and I wouldn't care. Doesn't mean that there is a glider diet out there that is perfect. Not even Passwell's Wombaroo HPS.

(please do keep in mind that this diet was not formulated specifically for sugar gliders alone. It is a wide range possum diet to fill the needs of all their "native" possum species)

I know schnuks sells edible flowers in the produce department - I'll talk to the produce guy to see if there are any spray's on them - until I can get my own going. I figure if I buy this year grow and cut back - next year should be a safe feed. Zinnia's grow very easily right from the seed and reseed themselves nicely. I use to have a huge spot of them in the back for cut flowers for the house.

Hypno, I would love it if you would repost your original edible flower post on a new thread...with spring coming it would be beneficial....and quite honestly, this thread started off well but on a different topic and I'm just really tired of wading through all the "mean girl" high school crap to get some good information.

Thanks.

A flower thread would be great! I do need to get back into my flowers again and this would be a great incentive!

For ANY new diet introduced, there will always be people trying to discredit or take it down. It's ridiculous. I don't care who's a minion for who or who is the Queen or who is a creator or who is loyal to who or who rides on anyone else's bandwagon. It sure would be nice if people took the personalities out of the intros of new diets and kept it about what it should be about. So what if this isn't the easiest diet? Doesn't mean people won't be interested in it or don't have a right to want to try it. I don't feed the easiest diet. Some people actually care more about quality than convenience.

The problem isn't that this is a new diet(which actually has been used in Australia for years) or if it is an easier diet or who's diet is best. The problem really lies with the fact that Alden didn't post the entirety of the emails that she got from Mr. Gordon Rich.

She decided it was best to pick and choose what she wanted people to read out of the emails and added what she had interepretted as to what "she" understood for them to say. which is completely different from what other people (including myself) believed them to say.

I know very well this isn't a "new" diet but it's being introduced as a another option on THIS forum (as in, something MANY have never heard of before seeing as we get new members on a daily basis) and I know you know what I meant by that. Weren't ALL the emails posted on GC? You make it sound like she was doing it for some ulterior motive. Here is the GC post for anyone interested in reading the correspondences or the discussion that happened there, including Peggy's input:

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1239633/The_Wombaroo_High_Protein_Diet#Post1239633

Thanks Kylah...heading there now.

The correspondences are on page 2.

Kylah the emails were not posted until after many people had saw them off the forums via forwarded email chains and began questioning her wording vs what was in the emails and then others being curious as to what was said in the emails in their entirety. That should have been done from the start vs the initial posts both here and on GC. She offered to answer any and all questions and then when those questions arouse she immediately became hostile or dodged them. The notes where she says he made recommendations such as the type of dry food or the omitting of water for green juice were not accurate as he never recommended either of these things in his emails. Of course the shady side of things is going to be questioned when it appears she or anyone else is misleading the groups. Those of us genuinely looking to find the best for our gliders will want to see these things come to light in a proper way and not smoke screened for convenience.

But what's posted there now is in it's entirety for people to read for themselves, right? I just am not seeing how this thread was started with ill intention.

I'm not sure where I saw anyone say that it was? It was more of a she took words to mean something others saw differently and upon asking for verification things went awry. Which to me in the refusal to answer my basic questions to understand why certain things were said that weren't actually said in the emails, was/is an admittance to lying. That's just me though and how I interpret things I see and others have seen just as she/you/they may see it differently.

Alden instantly gets defensive and accuses of arguing with her or bullying in some way when that's not the case at all. Happens quite often.

I am sure the overall diet is fine. My concern is the "cookie" to be offered to make the WHPS/water nectar palatable.

To some degree the honey used in the HPW diets serves this purpose. I believe though that the honey also brings additional nutrients to the diet that a "cookie" would not provide.

Then there is the issue of the choice of "cookie" to use.

If Rich would give more specific information other than not using a forified arrowroot cookie that would be helpful. Cookies can be sweet and light like a vanilla wafer - or fat laden like a lorna doon shortbread type cookie.

It would also be best to wait until the Wombaroo Small Carnivore product is actually available before jumping in to try this diet. It appears to be a vital part of the feeding plan since we do not have access to the same variety of insects available in Australia.

We need more specific directions on how to present this new diet and access to all of the products necessary for the diet before choosing this option.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


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Nice! So whats <i>your</i> connection with PPP...... minion #2.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br />I'm not sure where I saw anyone say that it was? It was more of a she took words to mean something others saw differently and upon asking for verification things went awry. Which to me in the refusal to answer my basic questions to understand why certain things were said that weren't actually said in the emails, was/is an admittance to lying. That's just me though and how I interpret things I see and others have seen just as she/you/they may see it differently.

Alden instantly gets defensive and accuses of arguing with her or bullying in some way when that's not the case at all. Happens quite often.
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In all fairness finessa I think this works both ways. I personally don't see what you're seeing, or I guess I don't see it the same way as you do but many feel, including me....that we can be having a civil diet conversation but as soon as HPW is brought up, which I'm sorry, it's going to be in any diet conversation, it's inevitable....but even a simple comment can be made about someone choosing not to use it....not bashing, not attacking it OR Peggy and you and others come in and start attacking the people in the thread and defending Peggy against some non-existant threat.

I'm not trying to argue with you about this, I'm just trying to get you to step back and see it from a different point of view.

IMO, no one has to like the info. Alden is offering...she's not forcing it on anyone, she's just putting it out there and it's up to us to research it and decide for ourselves. And I know you say your issue is omittances of some of the original emails....I get that, but once again, it works both ways....You and others don't have an issue with Peggy keeping details of her diet/the ongoing study results to herself but take offense when people question things or have a discussion about it. It seems to me that many people don't have an issue of following Peggy blindly but have an issue of the people who don't choose to and go as far as raising a ruckus if these non-followers appear to be following someone else blindly.

I get that you and others have "inside" information where Peggy is concerned...you probably know a lot of stuff that she chooses to keep quiet, and maybe that's where your tenaciousness comes in but please remember, the majority of us are just plain 'ol humans that aren't privvy to such information so these diets are just diets to us....they aren't a human being. We know Peggy created them and we know what she chooses for us to know... but she's no different to us than any other company... I know why I prefer Wombaroo HPS...I've researched their company and I like the longevity.... but everything I want to learn about Peggy Brewers Company I have to learn from HER or word of mouth....see what I mean? It's nothing personal. She chooses what information is made public and with that choice she and others need to realize that with the lack of information, she may not have people who are willing to follow so readily. Now once more info. is made public I'm sure some nay-sayers may decide her diets are great and kick themselves for not using them sooner, who knows,.... but raking people over the coals because they don't follow blindly or need a little more information about a diet other than what she is willing to provide I simply dont' think is fair.

Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to get you and others to take a different look at the subject.
Thanks for reading and sorry it's so long....I wish you a wonderful day.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br />I'm not sure where I saw anyone say that it was? It was more of a she took words to mean something others saw differently and upon asking for verification things went awry. Which to me in the refusal to answer my basic questions to understand why certain things were said that weren't actually said in the emails, was/is an admittance to lying. That's just me though and how I interpret things I see and others have seen just as she/you/they may see it differently.

Alden instantly gets defensive and accuses of arguing with her or bullying in some way when that's not the case at all. Happens quite often.
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In all fairness finessa I think this works both ways. I personally don't see what you're seeing, or I guess I don't see it the same way as you do but many feel, including me....that we can be having a civil diet conversation but as soon as HPW is brought up, which I'm sorry, it's going to be in any diet conversation, it's inevitable....but even a simple comment can be made about someone choosing not to use it....not bashing, not attacking it OR Peggy and you and others come in and start attacking the people in the thread and defending Peggy against some non-existant threat.

I'm not trying to argue with you about this, I'm just trying to get you to step back and see it from a different point of view.

IMO, no one has to like the info. Alden is offering...she's not forcing it on anyone, she's just putting it out there and it's up to us to research it and decide for ourselves. And I know you say your issue is omittances of some of the original emails....I get that, but once again, it works both ways....You and others don't have an issue with Peggy keeping details of her diet/the ongoing study results to herself but take offense when people question things or have a discussion about it. It seems to me that many people don't have an issue of following Peggy blindly but have an issue of the people who don't choose to and go as far as raising a ruckus if these non-followers appear to be following someone else blindly.

I get that you and others have "inside" information where Peggy is concerned...you probably know a lot of stuff that she chooses to keep quiet, and maybe that's where your tenaciousness comes in but please remember, the majority of us are just plain 'ol humans that aren't privvy to such information so these diets are just diets to us....they aren't a human being. We know Peggy created them and we know what she chooses for us to know... but she's no different to us than any other company... I know why I prefer Wombaroo HPS...I've researched their company and I like the longevity.... but everything I want to learn about Peggy Brewers Company I have to learn from HER or word of mouth....see what I mean? It's nothing personal. She chooses what information is made public and with that choice she and others need to realize that with the lack of information, she may not have people who are willing to follow so readily. Now once more info. is made public I'm sure some nay-sayers may decide her diets are great and kick themselves for not using them sooner, who knows,.... but raking people over the coals because they don't follow blindly or need a little more information about a diet other than what she is willing to provide I simply dont' think is fair.

Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to get you and others to take a different look at the subject.
Thanks for reading and sorry it's so long....I wish you a wonderful day.
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Well said!

Sherri! Say it ain't so!<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


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Nice! So whats <i>your</i> connection with PPP...... minion #2.
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Jazzy, why was your whole post Peggy based? I said nothing of Peggy in the post you quoted nor were Kylah and I speaking of Peggy. My questions/concerns about this diet were not Peggy related(Ok one was which once Alden felt cornered she went back to acronym war). Funny how she didn't ask Peggy right in that thread on GC yet she asked here, why? because Peggy doesn't post here? Have you gone over to GC and read the original emails and see why not only I but also others were concerned with wording of things in the first post of that thread and this one? There was nothing personal against anyone or thing. I could personally care less what anyone but myself feeds their gliders. To each their own but at the same time I won't sit back and watch Peggy be bashed or lied on by Alden/Dancing and the others that happen to have something personal against her.

Peggy nor myself (I have no horse in that race) care about discussions of her diets that are based on truth. Of course those of us that support Peggy, her diets, and all other things she does will come to her defense or explain things the proper way when needed. Just as you would your friends. I don't think people realize that not everyone in the community is just a font based conversation acquaintance. Some of us are actually friends off the boards, in real life, breeders for one another, we support each other as a true friend should do. That's not just Peggy that I have such a relationship with. There is no inside information about Peggy that I would know that you don't. Unless of course it happens to be what she had for breakfast this morning, which I would happen to know lol, you'd know too if you asked(sarcasm not being mean). Peggy is a pretty open book on just about all aspects of her life. She is proud of herself, her business and her family. She has no reason to hide what she feels should be shared.

Just as you offer your view, take a step back and see it from mine/others as well. The grass is truly never greener on either side of the fence. There is always brown and dog chit somewhere on both sides.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Catman</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />And just for the record I am minion #2, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


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Nice! So whats <i>your</i> connection with PPP...... minion #2.
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Awwww Rico you are so predictable. For the record as well.... I am Minion #1. Want to know my connection to PPP?

*yawn*

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by valkyriemome</i>
<br />*yawn*
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Yes finessa, I did hop over on GC and read the entire thread...of course that was after and amongst all of the other diet threads that were going on over the past few days, <i>(licorice being one of them)</i> so I do apologize for putting all of that on THIS thread. I just kind of combined all of it in one place...just speaking generically about all the nastiness of all the diet threads.


And yes, I do always try to put myself in the other persons shoes....doesn't mean I agree but that's what makes the world go around. I totally understand about the friendship stuff, that was kinda my point.... I guess I just personally feel that we can all give our point of view and defend our own in a civilized manner. I know when we're close to people emotions can be close to the surface and on the surface of this topic...IMO, it appears there are hard feelings between you guys and Alden, for whatever reason...none of my business, but it seems like there are attempts to discredit this information simply because she is the one delivering it. Maybe I am way off, I'm just letting you know how it's coming off to me, and again speaking only for myself, if I feel that way it makes it harder for me to take the "judging people" (for lack of a better word) seriously. I resond much better to, "this may be a good diet but you may want to take caution with this..." Now that I take into consideration.

And I suppose unwittingly Peggy kind of gets dragged into it because there's no mistaking the loyalties you and some others have for her, that being said, it appears that any new diets that get presented are shot down with a vengence to protect her bottom line. Again, those thoughts may have never entered your mind, but it enters some of ours, know what I mean? I'm only saying this so you can kind of know where some of us are coming from. We want great, honest information without being in the middle of a disagreement that has probably been going on long before we even knew what gliders were or with a bias of one diet over another simply because of a personal connection.

I'm sorry this got so off topic... I just want to stress that I try to stay neutral on all of this diet stuff and glean the best information and it's hard when things get heated and personal & I really don't think that is anyones' intent.

Jazz there are days I just love YA