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Update on Autopsy/Momma & Yahtzee
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Update on Autopsy/Momma & Yahtzee
Memorial, Passing, Remembrance
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Dec 11 2008
06:18:37 AM
Finally got results back on my gliders, an let me tell you it's a bit puzzling. The disease that they got, is common in mainly the rodent species. (Rats, mice, hamsters, gerbils) Vet made several calls to other vets & even vets in Australia, no one has ever heard of a case were gliders contracted the disease. SO my gliders are the first case ever know so far! My vet is doing a write up, to publish this case in the medical vet journal.

The disease is called: TYZZER'S
TYZZER'S disease is Clostridium Piliforme- causes infection/inflammation in cecum, liver, large intestine. Ihis disease is a spore that comes mainly from mice poop. The spores which remain in the environment for at least a year. Steam and autoclaving are that will kill these spores. Treatment may suppress the clinical illness, but may not clear the Clostridium piliforme. Treatment with Doxycycline may further alter gut bacteria, but will never cure the disease. Once this spore gets in the gliders system is decomposes the cecum sack imediately!!!

Now the way it can be contracted is by touching, walking on mice poop that has these spores & touching water. Then touching anything that your gliders can come in contact with. SO now I have to steam clean everything that belongs to this colony every other day, an can not use anything bedding wise on any other gliders.
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Dec 11 2008
06:36:37 AM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
Missdoolittle it is not very common at all but you are not the first case recorded. I have seen at least two other known deaths that have been diagnosed as Tyzzer's disease on the US glider forums in the past 12 months and there have probably been a lot more deaths that haven't been diagnosed.

It is highly contagious and recently there was an outbreak of this disease here in Australia with wild ringtail possums in rehabilitation. One shelter that was affected have been advised by the expert wildlife vets not to allow another ringtail possum on their property for the next five years, as the disease is that infectious and can lie dormant during that period.

Here is an excerpt of a public email by the owner of the shelter in regards to her outbreak.

quote:
It is with great sadness and concern that I need to inform to all wildlife people that my shelter has been infected with a highly infectious bacteria called Clostridium piliforme, which causes Tyzzer's disease.
It affects ringtail possums of all ages and sex. They do not show many symptoms till is too late. Their tummy becomes soft and a bit bloated, soon after they die.



If you have any suspicious death of ringtails in your shelter, please take the body to Healesville Sanctuary for an autopsy. They are aware of the situation and it is very important to know if you are infected or not. (keep the body in the fridge, not in the freezer).

Passing animals from shelter to shelter is how the infection is spreading amongst us, so please be very careful.

Healesville has suggested a rest of my shelter of 5 years!!! without ringtails. That is a terrible situation because this is the time of the year where many of us get inundated with them.

Edited by - Ko on Dec 11 2008 06:37:45 AM
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Dec 11 2008
06:53:29 AM
Rach Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Rach's Photo Album 626 Posts
I remember that Ko, It was on Ozark. The symptoms is similar to ceacum failure so I am sure like you said there are many cases that have been mis diagnosed.
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Dec 11 2008
07:01:04 AM
miss doolittle Super Glider GliderMap Visit miss doolittle's Photo Album miss doolittle's Journal USA 283 Posts
Well that is just what my vet informed me of. She has been out of Australia for some time now, an may have not heard of that break out from her felloe vet friends. But I do know that my gliders have been the first case here in Washington to be brought to light.
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Dec 11 2008
07:11:11 AM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Miss Doolittle - thank you so much for sharing your findings on your little ones. Im sure it was very painful for you. Knowing has to be so frightening.

This is the first time I have heard of this and would love to know more about it. Is there any symptoms?

I have to leave for work now, but intend to try and read up on it when I get home tonight. This is something we all need to be aware of since mice are masters at sneaking into our homes.
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Dec 11 2008
07:27:59 AM
AngieH Face Hugger GliderMap Visit AngieH's Photo Album 934 Posts
How terrible! I am so sorry!
My very first glider came to me with Clostridium difficile (c-diff). That was awlfull enough to treat but at least we could treat it. It took 3 weeks to get her well and we almost lost her several times. Thankfully she was my only glider and we were very careful about infection control.
The clostridium bugs are a nasty bunch!
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Dec 11 2008
07:55:01 AM
Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Gizmo-n-Roos Mommy's Photo Album OH, USA 1624 Posts
Miss D

Yes, I am sorry for all that you have going through.

At least by sharing this information, we can all learn from it. Kudos to you for doing your part to help others. And kudos to your vet as well!
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Dec 11 2008
08:26:11 AM
miss doolittle Super Glider GliderMap Visit miss doolittle's Photo Album miss doolittle's Journal USA 283 Posts
Here is at least 1 site that explains a little about what the disease is, but does not really explain how the animal & human contact get involed with each other.

Error, missing URL. m
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Dec 11 2008
08:34:08 AM
Gizzynator Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Gizzynator's Photo Album TX, USA 691 Posts
wow.. i'm sorry to hear that, but like GnRM stated at we can take something from this and learn a bit more about glider illnesses that we might not have ever thought of..
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Dec 11 2008
09:09:39 AM
Britt_marie19 Face Hugger Visit Britt_marie19's Photo Album USA 537 Posts
im sorry for everything.. let me know if you need anything.. i love my gliders and now im deff going to make sure there is not any rat poop around
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Dec 11 2008
10:11:02 AM
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kazko's Photo Album kazko's Journal TX, USA 6747 Posts
I soak my cages in vinegar and dish soap and then spray every inch with a 2000 psi pressure washer . I wonder how that does against spores and such other things?
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Dec 11 2008
12:19:06 PM
miss doolittle Super Glider GliderMap Visit miss doolittle's Photo Album miss doolittle's Journal USA 283 Posts
Here is a little more on the disease, I tryed to get the pics of what the spores look like in side an animal. But for some reason I could not get that posted. So for those who don't have the time right this minute to look up the disease, just a quick crash course into this disease.


Transmission and Development
The actual means of transmission has not been determined, but organisms or spores are probably shed in the feces of infected animals. Natural transmission likely occurs through the ingestion of these spores by susceptible individuals from contaminated housing, bedding or feed. The gregarious behavior of muskrats and rabbits increases the likelihood of infection by exposing these species to infected areas. An area which has infected animals present remains contaminated for a considerable length of time.
In muskrats it is believed that the intestinal lesions and death seen with this hemorrhagic disease can occur in 5-10 days following ingestion of contaminated material. Transmission by cannibalism and transplacental infection have been documented in experimental animals. Tyzzer's Disease usually affects young and weanling animals but all ages can be involved. Any stressful factor may predispose the animals to the disease.

Clinical Signs and Pathology
Clinical signs of Tyzzer's Disease are usually few in number because of the acute characteristics of the disease. Signs that may be seen are a profuse diarrhea, melena (the passage of dark-colored, tarry stools due to the presence of blood altered by intestinal secretions), anal bleeding, depression, anorexia and a rough hair coat.
Gross pathological changes include an ulcerative necrotizing colitis and cecitis with extensive hemorrhage and edema, discrete white or yellowish 1-3mm diameter necrotic foci on and in the liver, white streaks within the myocardium, lung congestion, pneumonia and edematous, enlarged mesenteric lymph nodes. The cecum and colon may contain brown fluid fecal material and the cecum may appear dark red-black in color.
Histologically there is epithelial cell necrosis and ulceration in the intestinal tract with necrosis, hemorrhage and edema in the underlying tissues. Liver lesions consist of areas of coagulative necrosis with no inflammatory response. Organisms may be seen in viable hepatocytes along the margin of acute lesions in the liver but these are usually few in number in the muskrat.

Pathology
Gross lesions may vary from none to severe and are characteristically found in the liver, lower intestine (ileum, cecum and proximal colon) and less frequently the heart. The most consistent finding is an enlarged liver with multiple gray to white foci scattered throughout the liver. Foci may coalesce in severe cases. While hepatic lesions are a hallmark of Tyzzer's disease, the liver is not always affected. Intestinal lesions are usually evident in acutely infected animals and consist of varying degrees of serosal edema with or without obvious hemorrhage. The small intestine usually contains scant ingesta, whereas the cecum is often filled with abundant watery material. Cardiac lesions consisting of white streaks within the myocardium have been reported in gerbils, hamsters, rabbits, rats and mice. Histopathologically, lesions of Tyzzer's disease are characterized by necrosis with varying degrees of inflammation in response to the necrosis. Acute hepatic lesions consist of necrotic foci surrounded by minimal, primarily neutrophilic, inflammation. As the disease progresses, the inflammatory response may in crease but rarely becomes a predominant feature. Chronic foci may become mineralized or fibrotic. Acute lesions of the intestine consist of single cell necrosis of primarily the luminal enterocytes. The lamina propria and submucosa may be edematous and contain a mild neutrophilic infiltrate. As the lesion progresses, necrosis becomes more extensive and the inflammatory response shifts to lymphocytic. At this stage, necrotic foci may be evident in the intestinal muscular layers especially in the ileum. Healing and repair are evidenced by hyperplasia of the crypt epithelium. Myocardial lesions consist of mild inflammation as sociated with small necrotic foci. Histopathologic evidence of encephalitis involving the cerebral cortex and thalamus has been reported in naturally-infected gerbils. Because C. piliforme organisms stain faintly with hematoxylin and eosin, silver stains, such as Warthin-Starry, Steiner or Dieterle's, are used to enhance detection of these bacteria. In acute to subacute lesions, intracellular bacteria are found in viable cells adjacent to necrotic foci. Bacteria are more difficult to find in chronic repairing lesions. Within the cell, C. piliforme are found lying next to each other in a unique, almost pathognomonic, ar rangement which has been described as a "bundle of sticks" or "pick up sticks"





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Dec 11 2008
01:21:48 PM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
I would be very concerned at this stage with the rest of the gliders in your care. I believe you have some rescues and you were planning on rehoming them which probably is not wise at this stage.

Did you read my post about the seriousness of the infection spreading and how once a property is infected spores can lay dormant for a very long time.

This lady who had it through her wildlife shelter cannot have ringtail possums onto her property again for approx. five years for fear of passing the disease along.

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Dec 11 2008
03:23:43 PM
miss doolittle Super Glider GliderMap Visit miss doolittle's Photo Album miss doolittle's Journal USA 283 Posts
Thats why the Family Colony is apart from all the other gliders. My gliders are always the last to be feed and played with. An the vet and I have already solved how my gliders got the Tyzzer's disease, anyway. An the other 2 rescues are in a seperate spot in the house. An thats why the vet has given meds for all the gliders in the home. I understand that the signs are very hard to see before death occurs. An thats is also why you have not seen any more posting that I have gliders to rehome. So if you are worried about the rehomes, I've already taken the precautions that I can. The Family Colony's dishes, snuggies, toys and the tent, along with the clothes that I wear within the tent are ALL SEPERATE FROM EVERY ONE ELSE!!! An that is why I have also purchased the steam machine that was required by my vet to use on all the things that can be steam cleaned. An if I HAD NOT ALREADY TAKEN THESE PRECAUTIONS, ALL the other rehomes & other glider colonies would have died. So thank you for the concern for the other gliders that are in my care, if you can really call it that. Do you not think that I already feel at fault for what has happened to my glider colony. So I'm sorry for not taking in your thoughts of concern!

Edited by - miss doolittle on Dec 11 2008 03:29:30 PM
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Dec 11 2008
03:44:42 PM
kyro298 Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit kyro298's Photo Album kyro298's Journal CO, USA 15262 Posts
I don't think Ko meant any harm-she just wants others to know how serious it can be as well. This isn't your fault this happened. I am grateful to know it even exists and appreciate all the info. You have a HUGE heart for even taking these little ones in...
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Dec 11 2008
04:54:22 PM
Zahra Super Glider GliderMap Visit Zahra's Photo Album USA 321 Posts
geez that's scary, i'm so sorry for your loss. thank you for sharing with us though, i will be much more viligant about keeping an eye out for rodents!!!!
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Dec 11 2008
06:12:37 PM
furrymurray Starting Member Visit furrymurray's Photo Album USA 2 Posts
I am so sorry for your loss.
I do have a question. (just want to make sure I am reading this correctly) It says it may be passed threw "feed". Would that include fresh fruits and veggies that may have come into contact with the feces? And if it does include that, how can you prevent infecting suggies without steaming the food?
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Dec 11 2008
07:31:11 PM
Zahra Super Glider GliderMap Visit Zahra's Photo Album USA 321 Posts
hey look what i just saw on msnbc.com: bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/09/1704381.aspx

It's about c.diff, not c.piliforme, but it still shows how difficult this bug is to treat- even in people!!
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Dec 11 2008
07:47:05 PM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
As Kyro was saying, I am just trying to point out the seriousness of this disease and how infectious it is.It is something that should never be taken lightly and here is the ideal opportunity to educate other glider owners in these sorts of things that can happen to anyone.


The shelter that got it here in melbourne is an amazing place...the lady who owns it is an innovator in wildlife rehabiliation and her facility is absolutely immaculate so I am definitely not pointing any fingers in regards to lack of care etc. This sort of thing can happen to anyone. If you want to take offence at my sharing of knowledge on this disease then so be it. Your vet though might find this extra information useful to source more documentation for their paper.
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Dec 11 2008
11:24:17 PM
reeny Starting Member 1 Posts
Msdoolittle
You live in the state of Florida. Where did you get your gliders. The reason I ask is that there was a member on all the boards by the name of Imyosuggie that had a glider that came down with Tyzzers. The glider died. The necropsy showed hemorragic liver intestines etc. I happened to sell my joey to her. She was involved in rescuing, and rehoming gliders. That is why I am asking where you got your gliders from. I got my joey back from her after buying him back. His cultures were negative and we treated him prophylactically for several weeks. I also kept him isolated for 6wks incase he came down with any symptoms. He was fine. He is doing well, and I paired him with a Mona and their are expecting their first joey.

Hope your gliders are ok. Let your vet know it is not the first case of Tyzzers in gliders.
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Dec 11 2008
11:51:55 PM
tinkertoy Face Hugger Visit tinkertoy's Photo Album FL, USA 801 Posts
Ms. D, I am sorry to hear about your gliders. I have never heard of this before so thank you for sharing the info. I'm glad Ko shared her info as well. After reading information from both of you I was wondering if with this particular disease if it is possible that it can be contracted from food that is bought that may have had mice or rats on it before it got shipped to the store. I don't know if I worded that so you can understand what I'm trying to ask. I know you mentioned that you and your vet figured out how they may have got it, do you mind sharing that with us. Living in the warm south mice and rats are hugh problem down here. You can have them in your house and not even know it sometimes. My dogs have killed several in the yard. I don't think anyone thinks your responsible at all. This could have happened to any of us. And just knowing that there is something out there like this and what to do and watch for will hopefully help us all. Once again I am sorry. Hugs!!!!!!!
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Dec 12 2008
12:02:23 AM
Goldwinger Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Goldwinger's Photo Album Goldwinger's Journal VA, USA 1369 Posts
I'm so sorry for your loss. This is very scarry as mice are quite common everywhere. I've had them in my house a few times and now I'm just terrified. Miss doolittle I hope the rest of your babies are doing well and will be praying for you all. I'm so very sorry. After reading this thread I found this site for anyone interested.

http://www.helium.com/knowledge/123412-tyzzers-disease-symptoms-and-treatments

I'm gonna bookmark this thread for future but this site gives symptoms but states the disease is so rapid that you may never see the symptoms before death occurs.

Edited by - Goldwinger on Dec 12 2008 12:08:56 AM
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Dec 12 2008
02:53:21 AM
miss doolittle Super Glider GliderMap Visit miss doolittle's Photo Album miss doolittle's Journal USA 283 Posts
Reeny,
I do not live in the state of Florida, I live in the state of Washington. You know that great North West of liquid sunshine about 24 hours aday. An I got my first 2 gliders from a friend that was givin them as a rescue. My 2 gliders quickly grew to 4 joeys in a 9 month period. Momma & Yahtzee (was 2nd joey & had a twin brother) were the gliders that had passed, there is Poppa & 1st-4th-other twin joeys are left in the Family Colony.

Ko,
An just how long have these other cases of Tyzzer's break out? It sounds like its been sometime, thats likely the case as to why my case is fairly new so far. Yes there is offence, I did read your post. An if I was taking this lightly, I would have not posted as much information as I have so far. An just incase you don't know the time line of the deaths of my gliders, its been a good 3-4 weeks from the first death. An I've been told by the vet & also read about the long time affect of these spores. There is also different types/stages of Tyzzer's disease, which carrys different stages of the life expected within the enviroment.

Everyone else,
At first the thought was it was brought in the the colony via Euc. branches. This was the only thing that was different in their living habits recently. At first, that was the source we thought caused the on set. But I hate to say it, I'm the person at fault for this deadly disease. My brother's place has mice everywhere from within the walls to running up over the beds. This is were I'm sure I got the disease on my shoes, clothing, ect ect. An some how the spores transferred to my Colony when I touched my gliders, about an hour or so after leaving the brother's place.

Now this is the way I transferred the spores. An as the vet said, I or ANYONE can brush up against an object that recently had mice poop on it. I have no clue with the food transfer information bit. An again, I think that is just another type/stage of the disease that is out there. An I have only myself to blame for the tragic occurance. An it is the most painful thing I have to deal with, everytime I look in the cage. Cause like everyone/everything states, its to late when you notice a poissible problem. I dreed every time I do a cage check, cause if there is another death. I know its my fault, an pay for my failure of knowledge, with heartack & sorrow.

So I thank the people that are grateful for my post, cause if I was that ignorante to something so small as a mouse poop. I feel it is my responsiblilty to educate others in this disease, so ignorance does not claim more helpless gliders.
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Dec 12 2008
05:58:16 AM
Ko Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ko's Photo Album Australia 1168 Posts
All the cases I cited were this year -latest being only three months ago.
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Dec 12 2008
11:25:49 AM
Bo and Lukes mom Joey 49 Posts
I'm really sorry for your loss. Thank you for taking time to inform us about what happened to your gliders
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Dec 12 2008
11:58:41 AM
nitetimers Glider Visit nitetimers's Photo Album 97 Posts
would this mean that gliders should not come in contact with pet mice or rats? Reason I ask is I bought a cage off of craigslist and the woman kept her rats in the cage. I cleaned the cage with bleach and dish soap, I hope that was good enough.
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Dec 12 2008
01:58:53 PM
Rita Glider Sprinkles GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Rita's Photo Album Rita's Journal MO, USA 12214 Posts
Miss Doolittle, thank you so much for sharing this information with all of us. I know it was painful for you with all you have been thru.

Please dont blame yourself for this. If you would have known, you wouldnt have gone to your brother's house... How would any of us know? Mice are everywhere. And if they can get into our house for some warmth and food, they will find a way.

We find mice all the time at my place of work. So everyday I come here to make my living, I go home and possibly contaminate my fur babies. But I HAVE to go to work....

Restaurants, shops, grocery stores - all have mice at some time or another. We cant all become hermits and never leave our houses. (altho at times I would certainly like to!)

I'm not certain what we can do. But I do know you should not blame yourself.

Again, Im so sorry. And thank you for educating us.
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Dec 12 2008
03:11:17 PM
Goldwinger Fuzzy Wuzzy GliderMap Visit Goldwinger's Photo Album Goldwinger's Journal VA, USA 1369 Posts
Thank you Rita. That is exactly right what you said and there is no possible way we can keep every single mouse out of our houses either. I have stopped up holes and laid out poison and then got scared that if my babies got out they would eat the poison so I transferred it to the attic and the garage but if they got past that they are in my home. We cannot stop it we can only become educated.

Thank you miss doolittle for educating during your time of grief. It is extremely appreciated and we will all be a little more cautious now but at your's and your babies exspense. AGAIN....I'M SO VERY SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS and I feel the same way you do everyday I go and check on my babies. Will there be one there dead and it scares me so much. We just all do the best we can and you are not to blame. Not knowing a thing exists should not become ones cross to bear as blame. Our prayers are with you in your time of despair and heartache.

Edited by - Goldwinger on Dec 12 2008 10:49:21 PM
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Dec 12 2008
03:15:35 PM
Belinda Face Hugger GliderMap Visit Belinda's Photo Album FL, USA 944 Posts
Well thanks alot for telling me that! I am going to wash my hands and wipe my feet more than I already do. Which would probably be considered way to much by most.

Seriously though I am very glad you shared that. The rats or mice or whatever they are into my laundry room. I see the droppings. I have never been all that concerned about it because it is outside the house. But it is seriously messing with me today. I guess that will be the next home improvement.

I went to the pet store today before reading this and it got me thinking about what could be there. I have washed everthing I got there in hot soapy water. Packages of treats, bottles, everthing.
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Dec 12 2008
04:00:32 PM
Ahsaehr Goofy Gorillatoes GliderMap Gliderpedia Editor Visit Ahsaehr's Photo Album Ahsaehr's Journal USA 3478 Posts
quote:
Originally posted by Rita

=

Restaurants, shops, grocery stores - all have mice at some time or another. We cant all become hermits and never leave our houses. (altho at times I would certainly like to!)



You're right but don't you guys think this should just be another reason we shouldn't drag our gliders out everywhere we go? I think so.
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Dec 12 2008
08:04:11 PM
mansonhippie13 Glider Visit mansonhippie13's Photo Album USA 138 Posts
thats really horrible! this post makes me want to clean everything i own really i might!
Update on Autopsy/Momma & Yahtzee
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Update on Autopsy/Momma & Yahtzee