I saw an ad online for a male wfb sugar glider. The mom has leucustic in her. I need a male to breed with my new female joey eventually. I emailed them and they said that the lowest they would take is $175. Do you think I should get him? Since he would eventually be the father of joeys would the joeys sell?

P.S Iam worried that their joey wouldn't sell because this ad has been here for awhile.

i really do not think you should breed. but thats just me.

if you are in fact going to breed, do you have lineage on your first glider? you will need it on both gliders in order to breed.

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I need a male to breed with my new female joey eventually.

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That's the first problem. You do not NEED. You WANT.

A: It's a NEW JOEY. - Joeys should not be breeding.. And is this your first? If so you seriously need to own gliders for a while and learn about them before taking this leap. IT's a BIG BIG BIG step and many things can go wrong. She could get injured or even die from a mating wound, she could pull or reject the joeys, she could even eat the joeys.

B: Do you have lineage? Without lineage they could be related, even if it's semi-distant, MANY sugar gliders are related somehow so you run a high risk of inbreeding which is further reason for her to reject the joeys. If she senses a health problem with them she'll eat them, more likely than not.

C: If you buy a male old enough to breed to put with your 'JOEY' he will mate with her ASAP. They won't 'wait until she's old enough' or until you want them to. If he is capable of mating he will. This is essentially putting a 12 year old through a pregnancy, it's hard emotionally and physically on the poor little girl.


There's countless reasons why this is bad, honestly..

I agree with Kozi. You shouldn't be breeding. Basically, it'll be like adding to the problem of too many gliders, not enough homes.

That seems like a cheap price to me. If you are going to breed you will need to wait to get a male joey until your female is at least 10 months old so there will be no early pregnancies, plus you will need to spend lots of time with your new girl and bond closely before adding another. Normally I recommend getting a buddy right away but not if your intent is to breed and lineage IS a must. Good lineage sells, thats been a hard lesson for me to learn cause when I got into breeding 5 years ago I it was lineage wasnt a must with the breeder I started with although I like her very much to this day. Breeding is risky at best. 2 WFB will produce WFB almost half of the time. the rest will be greys. I have a WFB/100%Leu het with a wfb, their joeys still sell but I will not have a shot of getting a leu so I wasted that lue het!

Thanks for all the info but I understand that they must have lineage and they do. I did buy him and he is 8 wks old so they are really close in age. I know how old they have to be. His mom was leu het so his joeys would sell easier and I already have some people that said they would want a joey from him...so finding homes will not be a problem.

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Originally posted by Rachaels gliders

Thanks for all the info but I understand that they must have lineage and they do. I did buy him and he is 8 wks old so they are really close in age. I know how old they have to be. His mom was leu het so his joeys would sell easier and I already have some people that said they would want a joey from him...so finding homes will not be a problem.

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Leu het does not mean they'll sell easier, colors, hets, NOTHING means they sell easier. They sell based on how healthy they are, how friendly, YOUR REP AS A BREEDER(If we're talking colors and hets) and how low their COI is and how impeccable their lineage is. The reason they NEED lineage is so you can check the COI, check their lines and relatives and see how good their PAIRED UP lineage is. You don't just go 'Ok, check, both have lineage, good enough, let's make some money!"

You can't put them together until about a year of age, too, if you're getting them both around 8 weeks. They can and WILL mate early and again, that's like forcing an 11 or 12 year old to get knocked up and have a baby so you can profit. That's kind of sick in my opinion.

If you're just telling us the 'mom has leu in her' then you don't know enough about lineage to breed. You should know what leu lines she's from, what het she is, what het he is.. and honestly, if he's taken a while to sell on their part there's likely something wrong with his lineage that anyone with SENSE wouldn't breed him. But obviously SOMEONE would just to breed for profit not actually caring about the lineage, which at this point in time, I'm sorry but that's you. You've shown NO knowledge of lineage or breeding so I see no reason why you should be trying.

Im not going to put them together still for 11 months. I don't see a problem here. I have knowledgable people that want to buy them. I have been doing lots of research. Iam now feeding them HPW. I was just asking if people thought if it was a good deal to get this wfb for that price when it had been for sale for a while. If I want to breed then I need to start somewhere. The reason that I was asking questions is to find out answers so that I can be a good breeder...and remember I still have 11 months to research and learn.Im not stupid.

Also I'm not doing this to make money...I can almost guarantee that I won't make any money from this considering how many thousands of dollars I have put into them. It's mostly for learning expierience.

To start anywhere with breeding, you need to start with researching and doing things in the proper manner.

Whether for money or self gratification, you really need to do all the research possible, and this includes learning about lineage.

Once you have done that, you will recognize that breeding without lineage is not the brightest thing to do.

If you continue to desire breeding, again, regardless if for money or self gratification, you will purchase two gliders with lineage and together will form a perfect pairing (low COI's, both gliders and their families have healthy backgrounds, etc).

There's so much more to breeding than simply placing a female and an intact male together and allowing nature to take over.

Everybody here is simply trying to help and trying to look out for the welfare of gliders.

That is what Iam trying to say...when I was asking the questions I was researching. Those were the things I needed to know. I do know my gliders lineage. My new wfb's breeder told me about his lineage and I know about my others too. I have been researching. Iam not just going to place them together , expect them to have joeys and sell them. What Im trying to say is that I have done my research. Asking these questions IS researching. The other questions I needed to know I found out from other sited and emailing people. I know that you are just trying to help but you are saying that my sugar gliders don't have lineage but I think I would know.

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Originally posted by Rachaels gliders

That is what Iam trying to say...when I was asking the questions I was researching. Those were the things I needed to know. I do know my gliders lineage. My new wfb's breeder told me about his lineage and I know about my others too. I have been researching. Iam not just going to place them together , expect them to have joeys and sell them. What Im trying to say is that I have done my research. Asking these questions IS researching. The other questions I needed to know I found out from other sited and emailing people. I know that you are just trying to help but you are saying that my sugar gliders don't have lineage but I think I would know.

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You bought some random glider and are placing it with another random glider with NO KNOWLEDGE OF LINEAGE.. That is bad.

You don't know since you're saying his joeys are gunna sell cause 'his moms got leu in her'... That is not proper knowledge of lineage and NO WHERE NEAR anywhere enough knowledge to INTENTIONALLY pair gliders up.

Months and MONTHS of research and searching goes into finding the right gliders with the PERFECT lineage to pair up. Just what CSG said, you don't just pull two gliders, male and female, who you THINK MIGHT have lineage and pop 'em together...

Also, you don't NEED TO FIND A BOY to breed with your girl just because you got a girl.


The problem here is that you know nothing of lineage, you may think you do but you've yet to say anything in any of these threads to show that you have any knowledge about any of it.. You're breeding for the sake of breeding, probably cause they're cute and you're hoping to make a buck. Why else would you comment on them 'selling easier'.. It isn't about how easy the sale is..

It's about taking a LOT of time to find the two perfect gliders to go together to have HEALTHY friendly babies with IMPECCABLE lineage to further better the lines and genetics, not to pair 'em up so they 'sell easier'. It won't be easy, you can't just sell to everyone who 'expresses interest'. You need to do interviews, have people fill out forms and look for the BEST potential owners, not just anyone who seems interested and hands you cash.


We're being hard about this because too too many people go into this thinking it's fun, joeys are cute, there may be a profit to be had or they wanna be a 'mommy' to joeys.. But many things can and do often go wrong and then poof, people are back here posting about it, traumatized. Some won't listen and learn for themselves later, stupidly, after putting their gliders through hell and a half.

Kozi is right.
'Knowing about' is not the same as knowing. You need to have that lineage, in hand.
It should be on TPG database where you can make test babies on the database to compare lineage and COI's too.
Breeding is not something to take lightly.
Heck, I've been researching breeding for almost 2 years and still haven't done it. Why? Because I'm taking it seriously and I recognize how important it is to know all there is to know and to get the perfect pairing, which is NOT easy.

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Originally posted by csg

Kozi is right.
'Knowing about' is not the same as knowing. You need to have that lineage, in hand.
It should be on TPG database where you can make test babies on the database to compare lineage and COI's too.
Breeding is not something to take lightly.
Heck, I've been researching breeding for almost 2 years and still haven't done it. Why? Because I'm taking it seriously and I recognize how important it is to know all there is to know and to get the perfect pairing, which is NOT easy.

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Exactly.. it isn't easy OR cheap, sadly.

Too many people take it too lightly, unfortunately.. but so many gliders are related thanks to mills and small breeders.. Even if you are 'sure' because one came from one side of the country and one from the other, etcetc.. Doesn't mean squat.. People ship and drive gliders all over ALL the time. I've heard too many stories of people finding out somehow that theirs are related after the fact.

I'll say it again..


"the mom has leu in her" is the perfect example, this shows that you have little to no knowledge of lineage. Without it(knowledge AND lineage) you shouldn't even CONSIDER breeding.

why does saying that the mom is leu het mean I have no knowledge of lineage. All I'm saying is that a couple of people that said that they would buy from me were happy to hear that. That doesn't mean I know nothing about lineage. I was given papers when I bought the wfb so it shows his lineage. I have been researching sugar gliders and breeding since last year. They are not "random" when I know their history...THEY ARE NOT RELATED!!! I have bred my sugar gliders that I have now and their joeys sold just fine to people that truly cared about them. I don't see what is wrong with adding another pair to breed when they are old enough. If you think there is something that I don't know then tell me about it, that is how I will learn it.

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Originally posted by Rachaels gliders

why does saying that the mom is leu het mean I have no knowledge of lineage. All I'm saying is that a couple of people that said that they would buy from me were happy to hear that. That doesn't mean I know nothing about lineage. I was given papers when I bought the wfb so it shows his lineage. I have been researching sugar gliders and breeding since last year. They are not "random" when I know their history...THEY ARE NOT RELATED!!! I have bred my sugar gliders that I have now and their joeys sold just fine to people that truly cared about them. I don't see what is wrong with adding another pair to breed when they are old enough. If you think there is something that I don't know then tell me about it, that is how I will learn it.

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No, we shouldn't be cleaning up your messes. YOU should be doing the RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BREED.

But it's ok, you have 11 months to learn, like you said, right? AND YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'RE ALREADY BREEDING?! So what else have you lied about?


Paper lineage is OFTEN false. Like the other poster said, it should be recorded online.


You'd know that the mom is a (example) WFB 33% leu het, not that 'she has some leu in her'. That's why you don't know squat. If you only have paper lineage you're not testing their compatibility or COIs either so odds are you're inbreeding.... But I'm too shocked by the fact that you spent most of this post lying in the first place. I really wish people like you weren't allowed on the internet.. ugh.

I bought her and she was pregnant...it was not intentional. I was going to get him neutered but then I just decided to do the research and I have been. I bought my first sugar gliders when they were about a year and one of them was about 1.5 years. I'm not saying tell me everything but you think I know nothing. I'm just saying tell me what I apparently don't know. This is the first time that I want to atually TRY to breed.

So you've already bred without lineage, yes?

You've been lying about a bunch of stuff... why should any of us go out of our way to help you when you're dead set on doing everything wrong anyway? You already bought the boy even though people said not to. You're likely breeding what sound like rescues..? And you're not commenting on anything I've mentioned about lineage, at ALL.

I'm trying to tell you that I know their lineage. I did get them from a breeder who was going to keep them for breeding but changed her mind. I'm not telling you that you have to help me or anything...just some simple questions. I have commented on what you've said about lineage and what I said is that I do know their lineage. You are trying to tell me that I don't. What have I lyed about??

also my question about getting the boy was more about is it a good deal. I would've eventually gotten a male sugar glider anyway. Iam not doing anything wrong.

You said you're not breeding and have 11 months to figure out what you're doing as these mature.. now poof you've been breeding the whole time.

No one can say anything about it being a good deal without seeing the COI of the pair.


You're doing a lot wrong by buying a glider to place with a glider without checking their compatibility or COI. Again, lineage should typically be kept ONLINE.

You commented on the 'mom having leu in her' which shows just how little experience you have with lineage and breeding..

You've yet to resolve any of the things I've mentioned, that's WRONG. So I'm sorry but you're doing something wrong. Breeding without comparing the lineage and knowing the COI FIRST is WRONG. Just because they 'have lineage' doesn't mean you can breed, it doesn't mean squat, really.

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Originally posted by Kozi Gliders

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Originally posted by Rachaels gliders

That is what Iam trying to say...when I was asking the questions I was researching. Those were the things I needed to know. I do know my gliders lineage. My new wfb's breeder told me about his lineage and I know about my others too. I have been researching. Iam not just going to place them together , expect them to have joeys and sell them. What Im trying to say is that I have done my research. Asking these questions IS researching. The other questions I needed to know I found out from other sited and emailing people. I know that you are just trying to help but you are saying that my sugar gliders don't have lineage but I think I would know.

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You bought some random glider and are placing it with another random glider with NO KNOWLEDGE OF LINEAGE.. That is bad.

You don't know since you're saying his joeys are gunna sell cause 'his moms got leu in her'... That is not proper knowledge of lineage and NO WHERE NEAR anywhere enough knowledge to INTENTIONALLY pair gliders up.

Months and MONTHS of research and searching goes into finding the right gliders with the PERFECT lineage to pair up. Just what CSG said, you don't just pull two gliders, male and female, who you THINK MIGHT have lineage and pop 'em together...

Also, you don't NEED TO FIND A BOY to breed with your girl just because you got a girl.


The problem here is that you know nothing of lineage, you may think you do but you've yet to say anything in any of these threads to show that you have any knowledge about any of it.. You're breeding for the sake of breeding, probably cause they're cute and you're hoping to make a buck. Why else would you comment on them 'selling easier'.. It isn't about how easy the sale is..

It's about taking a LOT of time to find the two perfect gliders to go together to have HEALTHY friendly babies with IMPECCABLE lineage to further better the lines and genetics, not to pair 'em up so they 'sell easier'. It won't be easy, you can't just sell to everyone who 'expresses interest'. You need to do interviews, have people fill out forms and look for the BEST potential owners, not just anyone who seems interested and hands you cash.


We're being hard about this because too too many people go into this thinking it's fun, joeys are cute, there may be a profit to be had or they wanna be a 'mommy' to joeys.. But many things can and do often go wrong and then poof, people are back here posting about it, traumatized. Some won't listen and learn for themselves later, stupidly, after putting their gliders through hell and a half.

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First of all I commented about them selling easy because I don't want to have a bunch of sugar gliders that need homes...I want them to get homes right away. Also I already have a questionare that people have to fill out on my facebook page before buying them.

Still shouldn't be breeding in my opinion. You didn't know what to even feed them until recently, you still haven't commented on anything I've said about lineage or done anything to show that you know what you're doing.

Yes I do have 11 months to figure this out. EXACTLY. The first time that happend as an accident, I didn't know a lot then. Now I still have 11 months if Iam missing out on anything important.

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Originally posted by Rachaels gliders

Yes I do have 11 months to figure this out. EXACTLY. The first time that happend as an accident, I didn't know a lot then. Now I still have 11 months if Iam missing out on anything important.

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No, you don't.

You're STILL IGNORING EVERYTHING I SAY.


You didn't neuter him, did you? That's STILL ACTIVELY BREEDING.

You yourself stated you adopted them, there was a joey (or joeys) IP. You were 'going to' have him neutered, then changed your mind so that you can research, while he stayed intact and thus allowing them to continue to breed.

So you've BEEN breeding.




Lineage really needs to be online. This is the only reliable way to calculate COI's of possible pairings.
Paper lineage is helpful so you can sit down with the paper lineages of the gliders in question and visually, side by side, compare them.



Since there's a recorded lineage on them, according to you, I'd like to see it. I have TPG database up in another window right now. Tell me who to search for and what their OOP dates are.

alright, I will post it on here.

*waits* x_x

lexa
o.o.p 2005/6/2
sammy
o.o.p 2006/3/10
Rocky color:wfb
o.o.p 2011/7/28
color: wfb Lila Zoey
o.o.p 2009/4/03 o.o.p 2004/7/1
color:leu het color:wfb

Timmy
o.o.p 2006/2/5
color: Leucustic

it didn't show the way I typed it....well anyways i had it in the format it was in on the paper. And when I had it like that I couldn't backspace so also Max is his dad

Max:
o.o.p 2008/7/9
color:wfb

That isn't their lineage.

Ok, no Timmy on the database.

You don't own Rocky, do you? He isn't even 8 weeks old yet by your OOP date...
(There is no Rocky on TPG with that OOP date, either.)

Also no Zoey on TPG with that OOP date..

Leu het isn't a color... can you organize that better.. I'm a bit confused..

This all seems shady to me since all the ones I DID look up aren't listed at all..

There was more too, I'll put it here.

Lilly
o.o.p 2001
color:leucustic

Gizmo
o.o.p 2000
color:wfg

Zipper
o.o.p 1998
color:wfb

Zooloo
o.o.p 1997
color:wfb

Lady
o.o.p 1994
color:wfg

Zeeba
o.o.p 1995
color:leu her wfb

It looks way different than on the paper the way I typed it.