Poll Question: I just would like to gather some information on hamster balls since it's such a controversial toy for sugar gliders. I am neither for, or against hamster balls. IF, your glider has had an injury from the use of a ball PLEASE specify WHAT the injury was, and the extent of the injury in a post. Please provide any additional information you can on the matter. I am starting this poll because I WOULD like to know any injuries that have occurred, along with how often it has occurred. I just want to know if injuries with hamster balls are as prevalent as they are made out to be. Thank you to everyone who participates. Choices: You are ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, and never had an injury You are ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, and have had an injury You are ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, but will not use them for your own suggies You are NOT ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, and never had an injury You are NOT ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, and have had an injury You are NOT ''ok'' with the use of hamster balls, and will not use them for your own suggies You are indifferent to the use of hamster balls

BUMP

THERE IS NO CORRECT ANSWER OTHER THAN; NO HAMSTER BALLS ARE NOT SAFE!

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Originally posted by viciousencounters

THERE IS NO CORRECT ANSWER OTHER THAN; NO HAMSTER BALLS ARE NOT SAFE!

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Everyone says they are unsafe, but I have yet to talk to/hear from someone who actually experienced an injury. Just because some people think they aren't safe doesn't mean they shouldn't be used. Before wodent wheels had the newest tail guard people deemed those as unsafe, yet it was still acceptable to use. People use straws and milk rings which can easily be chewed which could pose a choking hazard, could cause a blockage, or even perforation.

Now, that being said...
If you want to to say its unsafe from personal experience, or some ACTUAL facts that would be fine. But just saying "its not safe" is an opinion and nothing more.

If you do a search on here and glider central you can find many posts about injuries. Sure some have used them and not faced it, but is it worth the risk when there are other negatives to it(gliders like to be up high, not down low, they can snag toes on carpet outside of the ball while running, they do tend to pee/poop while in it and get messy, and there are many many more stories of gliders hating being in a ball). If its a choice between temporarily not getting much time out of the cage or having to use a hamster ball, I'd choose less out of cage time.

Here are some stories of injuries/problems(I did not include stories about gliders stressing out in the ball or getting covered in their pee/poop but there were many many more of those types)

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35192
"Vogue was in her ball having some time to run around the living room, I know that balls aren't always the best thing and people have different opinions about them but I feel safer with her in the ball then just running around because we have 3 cats. Anyways she got her toe some how caught in the lid of the ball where you open and close the ball at. It is not just hanging there, there is no open wound or anything like that but it is obviously broken."

From http://www.sugarglider.com/archives/GliderGossip2/messages/1066-Is+it+ok.asp
"I tried the ball once and like Karen said their little nails can get caught up in the slits....anyway mine did so I stopped using it. I went out and got a bunch of apple and pear tree limbs and suspended them from the ceiling with the little plant hanger hook thingies and they loved it so I added some hemp rope and hanging toys.....and have a little playground type thing goin on up high where they like it! Anyway just a thought... Kimi "


From
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29746&whichpage=1

"Like SG said, nails and toes can easily get stuck. I had a person message me recently through my site telling me a horrific story regarding these hamster balls. The glider ended up with a broken wrist because a toe got stuck and she panicked."

From
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=10957

"a glider that had a piece of poo stuck in its eyelid from being in the ball and it caused a bad infection."

"Also, they grab ahold of the holes inside of the ball, and then their little toes get run over by the stupid ball! I serioulsly would not get one!"

http://www.sugarglidercentral.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=2933
Something_To_Believe_In has personally seen injuries due to them


From: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/68619/Re_hamster_balls

"Yes, hamster balls are loads of fun for the babies...BUT--PLEASE use them with caution. Mine loved them too. Here is the issue...for gliders with smaller hands, they can actually slip thru the slots, where they will run them over, and cut into the palms of their hands.Troi never even let on she was hurt, but if I hadn't noticed it when I did, she might have lost her front hands, or at least half of them, as the cuts ran all the way across her palms. I have not used them since. Please, Please check your babies hands after every use, if you insist on using them, for injury. Also keep in mind, that these were not made for the kind of feet a glider has. I dont' want to rain on anyone's parade, but if you care for your glider, please be careful, and check often."

From http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/86409/Re_hampster_ball

"Some gliders like them and some don't. There are real dangers associated with them, however, and they can cause injury. Because gliders have "fingers", and not paws like a hamster, those CAN go through the slots, so can thumbs on a small glider, and when they're really moving it can run over the digit and cut them. Our little mama nearly lost both front thumbs from hers..luckily we caught it in time to save them, since she never acted like she was hurt, yet the cuts went nearly to the bone where the thumbs attach to the hand. Just be aware of the danger, and check your glider's feet after each playtime for injury. Keep in mind also that a jolt can knock the lid off, freeing the glider."

As someone who has never used a hamster ball for my suggies, I can say that if it is even only questionable that a product is unsafe, then it isn't worth the risk to me. There are so many other fun products they enjoy, I'm not going to risk one that could potentially harm them. Just my two cents!

Very often, people who speak from experience actually ... you know ... have *experience*!!

Many times a new owner will challenge the established FACTS of sugar glider care and say "Why not? Prove it!" I've been around here for many years, doing research daily. I often cannot pull up your "proof" in the form of previous posts. I just remember what I've read.

Thank you, Petluv for having more patience then I have!

For eschiavoni and other new owners: You CAN learn from the experience of others! You don't have to recreate all the mistakes yourself! If you insist on NOT taking the advice of more experienced owners - then god help your gliders.

Petluv....THANK YOU for taking the time to do that research! There are only a handful of people seeing this poll. Obviously, the people that had injuries in the past or stories from the past are not here anymore to comment on this thread. It isn't that hard to do a search on your own.

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Originally posted by valkyriemome

Very often, people who speak from experience actually ... you know ... have *experience*!!

Many times a new owner will challenge the established FACTS of sugar glider care and say "Why not? Prove it!" I've been around here for many years, doing research daily. I often cannot pull up your "proof" in the form of previous posts. I just remember what I've read.

Thank you, Petluv for having more patience then I have!

For eschiavoni and other new owners: You CAN learn from the experience of others! You don't have to recreate all the mistakes yourself! If you insist on NOT taking the advice of more experienced owners - then god help your gliders.

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Agreed! Please put the well-being of your gliders first!!

I don't use the hamster balls. I just wanted to see how many injuries have actually occurred. All of the threads that I looked at from petluv I only saw one where an injury occurred and it wasn't even from the slits of the ball. Instead it was from the cap that closes the ball. Which I can't see HOW it would happen, unless the person didn't close it properly or accidentally closed it on the gliders toe.

I am not saying I do not appreciate 'elders' advice. Because I do. I just want to know WHY hamster balls are NOT approved of. I know some people say because of the feces, urine, they don't like it, injuries, etc. I don't have TONS of experience with the balls. I used them regularly (for about a week) when I moved and my place was a disaster and there weren't any glider proofed/safe areas. But the little experience that I do have with the hamster balls they weren't injured, they didn't poop or pee in them (I always pooped/peed them for 20-30 mins before use), and my gliders actually liked them and hopped in on their own free will. I don't use them anymore because I don't need to use them.

I guess what I am so confused about.. is why would an old version of a wodent wheel be 'acceptable' when it could injure their tails, and the little metal clips could cause other injuries? Those injuries seem more prevalent, and worse than the possibility of a broken toe?

Why do we use soft plastics that can easily be chewed up? They can swallow them and choke, get an obstruction, or it could perforate their bowels. Yet we use these sorts of things ALL the time in their cages UNSUPERVISED. Examples of these things would be straws, and milk rings. Yet using a hamster ball under supervision is worse?

We use rexlace & beads. If they decided to break a toy apart they could swallow a bead which would most definitely choke them or if they did somehow swallow it an obstruction. Rexlace, if freed from a toy, could definitely get wrapped up around them and strangle them, or cut off circulation to a limb. I'm sure if they swallowed rexlace that could definitely pose a problem as well.

I guess what I want to know is HOW did we come to the conclusion that hamster balls are horrible, in comparison to other toys & toy parts? I am not trying to say that elders are wrong, I just want to know WHY?? Please only answer if you have a logical explanation. I don't want to hear you say that I'm just trying to argue with the elders. I'm not, I'm just confused as to why some stuff is approved and some stuff isn't. I understand there have been injuries from hamster balls, but there has been injuries from just about every other thing out there and yet those items still get used??

You have been answered. The reasoning is based on stories that have come through here over the years and examples like the ones that were posted. You saw one injury post but there was also the one with the eye infection from the feces in the eye after playing in the ball. I was around for that one for sure. I've also seen where the hamster ball went down a flight of stairs. I don't have the patience to look that up, sorry. I've also personally seen where people said they let their dog/cat chase the ball with the glider inside. Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't stress them out at all.

By the way, they can't swallow beads. Their throat opening is about the size of a pin head.

It makes perfect sense that things deemed "dangerous" directly have stories/experiences attached to them. If there are things you don't think should be accepted as safe, find what harm was caused by it and let people know. If something is accepted as safe, it's because issues haven't been publicly reported.

Common sense is priceless. Not EVERYTHING requires proof if you KNOW it could cause harm. Not EVERYTHING has to have an explanation. I don't personally know of anyone whose child was hurt by playing with something like....I don't know, a hammer, but I'm not going to test the theory.

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Originally posted by eschiavoni2

I don't use the hamster balls. I just wanted to see how many injuries have actually occurred. All of the threads that I looked at from petluv I only saw one where an injury occurred and it wasn't even from the slits of the ball. Instead it was from the cap that closes the ball. Which I can't see HOW it would happen, unless the person didn't close it properly or accidentally closed it on the gliders toe.

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Did you miss the eye infection from the poop?

And the one glider who cut their feet from the slits?

And the one who broke its wrist?

And if you email Val(something to believe in), she'd be more than happy to share those personal stories with you.

There are more posts of injuries, but glidercentral archives them and the links change so I couldn't access them beyond what google quoted.

Nails can and will fit through the slits(even if you won't believe they can get stuck and run over), so they are DEFINITELY not safe on carpet where they can easily snag.

As for toy parts, people need to know their gliders and inspect things regularly. Even pouches can be dangerous if you aren't trimming nails and they get a foot snagged. But the risk is greatly reduced if you trim nails and use fleece over other fabrics. And the benefits of having pouches outweigh that small risk. The benefits of using a hamster ball do NOT outweigh the risks of hurt feet, getting covered in pee/poop, and the stress from being in it as many gliders DO NOT like them(and many will run in them, but they're running to try and escape, not because they enjoy it).

Thanks for doing this poll. It'll be nice to clear the air on actual injury to objection ratios. Just as anything in life, the negative news sells better. People remember more, or report on more, the tragedies than the successes.

The subject of hamster balls seems like to me the reason why so many playgrounds have pulled out swings. Yeah, kids can get hurt in a multitude of ways, even more when their parent is not watching them. Kids can also trip over their own feet and hurt themselves. So it is with sugar gliders and hamster balls, wheels, straws, even no-sew pouches and toys. If something isn't 100% safe in your mind, don't allow it or supervise it.

Sugar gliders are tiny little creatures that can get hurt in any number of ways. It is your responsibility as an owner to choose whether or not you deem something safe.

I am not trying to say the hamster balls SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be used. But I guess I don't understand why a hamster ball is a big NO NO. There are ways to do things and not to do things. I feel that as long as a hamster ball was SUPERVISED, and the pet owner isn't a moron or naive (allowing other pets to chase, or allowing them to go down stairs, not allowing the suggies to 'relieve' themselves first, etc) then it should be fine WITH supervision. In the respect to feces getting in their eyes, I have successfully used hamsters balls WITHOUT them pooping in the ball. I made sure that they fully relieved themselves before placing them in the ball. And because it was supervised, had they pooped/peed in the balls I would have IMMEDIATELY removed them and cleaned out the ball. I also never had them in it for extended periods of time. I also never shoved my suggies into the hamster balls. They were always encouraged to use them with treats, never forced.

That being said, I want to know why no sew items are still used? Hamster balls have only resulted in small injuries. Below is a link to GliderCentral. The link is to a post about a no sew item KILLING a sugar glider.

www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/866431/No_sew_pouch_dangers

Do I believe no sew items should no longer be used? NO, I believe no sew items could still be used and be safe. Our responsibility is to care for our gliders. We need to supervise them during playtime, and we need to thoroughly check their cage items on a regular basis. Can accidents still happen? YES, even if we supervise them & check their cage items regularly.. things can STILL happen.

Anyone know if there have been any injuries/issues with people using hamster balls responsibly (supervised, away from other animals, pottied before use, etc)? Those are the injuries I really want to know about, because those are the injuries that legitimately correlate to the dangers of hamster balls.

Sorry if I am making anyone angry, I am not trying to stir up emotions. I am not trying to ignore the elders either. I just want to know how decisions are made (on the safety of items) as well as the facts that are used to make these decisions.

Not sure how to re-word the same responses over and over.