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CozyFlowers Starting Member Blue River, Oregon 6 Posts THIS IS ANIMAL ABUSE  DON'T SOAK YOUR GLIDER TO DO INTRO PLEASE VISIT GLIDERCENTRAL.NET TO FIND THE CORRECT METHOD OF HOW TO DO INTRO WITH YOUR GLIDERS. THIS METHOD THAT THIS IDIOT CAME UP WITH WILL ONLY SHOCK AND POSSIBLY KILL YOUR GLIDER. REMEMBER IF YOU THINK THIS IS COOL THEN DO IT TO YOURSELF AND TELL ME THEN IF YOU THINK ITS HUMANE.... DON'T BE A VICTIM OF MISINFORMATION Don't be an ass, Cozy. It's only going to "shock and possibly kill your glider" if you don't bother reading everything he said to do and if you're not smart enough to realise that you shouldn't try it in a cool/cold room. The water is used as a distraction. Direct quote "It is designed to force them to fixate on other things besides the newbies, their smell, or any territorial or alpha issues. I have found that when sugar gliders are fixated, frightened, scared, threatened, whatever you want to call it, they will flock together for safety in numbers where they can. This immediately breaks down the normal smell and territorial barriers and allows the animals to become immediately socialized without the expected fussing, fighting or possible wounds which of course are highly stressful." "PROCEDURE I use water and being wet as a fixation device. While fixated on the abnormal stimulus, sugar gliders are very much less interested in new smells and the fighting that comes with protecting territory. Instead, they focus solely on the abnormal stimulus, and in this case, all they want to do is get away from it." quote:
Originally posted by CozyFlowers
THIS IS ANIMAL ABUSE
DON'T SOAK YOUR GLIDER TO DO INTRO
PLEASE VISIT GLIDERCENTRAL.NET TO FIND THE CORRECT METHOD OF HOW TO DO INTRO WITH YOUR GLIDERS.
THIS METHOD THAT THIS IDIOT CAME UP WITH WILL ONLY SHOCK AND POSSIBLY KILL YOUR GLIDER.
REMEMBER IF YOU THINK THIS IS COOL THEN DO IT TO YOURSELF AND TELL ME THEN IF YOU THINK ITS HUMANE....
DON'T BE A VICTIM OF MISINFORMATION
Dahlia_2020 Fuzzy Wuzzy    SC, USA 1419 Posts Yes, you want to keep your home warm if you are going to try this method. You also want the water to be lukewarm, not cold. You also don't want them directly in the spray, but more like they are getting misted. The point is to distract them and to dampen/combine their scents and to hopefully get them to seek each other out for comfort and mutual licking and grooming... Not drown them. This method isn't for everyone, and if you can get gliders together via traditional methods, then good for you. But I've used this method twice. First time with introducing a colony of three (1 male and 2 females) to a colony of two (both females)... and then that combined colony of 5 to a single male. None of these gliders are related. I now have a happy colony of 6 instead of three separate cages with an over-grooming glider in two of them. I will say that both times though, it didn't end with just the shower. After everyone being in the pouch for a little while (first time is was a couple of hours, second time it was about 7 hours) there was one glider (different one each time) that would start picking at one of the new gliders. Not viciously, but an obvious attempt to push that glider from the pouch even though it had accepted one of the other newcomers. When that happened, I used an improvised version of that pouch (can't for the life of me remember the name of it at the moment) that was basically just a bonding pouch but it had two sections in it. So you could put one glider on one side and one on the other so they would be able to stay together in the pouch without being able to hurt one another because there is a layer of fleece and/or mesh inbetween them. Thus forcing them to get used to each other's scents and finally come to the conclusion that maybe a new playmate isn't such a bad thing after all. Once a glider gets used to another glider's scent being in the colony pouch, it does make a difference and becomes familiar. Virtual diver, I would actually suggest this for your two. That way you won't have to worry about them hurting each other while they work things out and come to accept each other. Now they have a pre-established history that is not so good, so its going to be hard to overcome that with just regular playtime meetings, when they are going to automatically go on the defensive... but if it's during the day when they both want to sleep, they should settle down after some initial crabbing and go to sleep and then become used to the idea of having the other in the sleeping pouch with them. With the first introduction I had to do this for several days before allowing everyone to spend a night together in the main cage. Second time, it was a week, and then allowing the two gliders that were having trouble getting along to live together in another cage with only each other for company to make sure they wouldn't revert to having issues once back with the rest of the colony. It worked. I finally put those two back into the colony and everyone has been together for a few months, no problem. WintersSong Fuzzy Wuzzy 1417 Posts quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Don't be an ass, Cozy. It's only going to "shock and possibly kill your glider" if you don't bother reading everything he said to do and if you're not smart enough to realise that you shouldn't try it in a cool/cold room.
The water is used as a distraction. Direct quote "It is designed to force them to fixate on other things besides the newbies, their smell, or any territorial or alpha issues. I have found that when sugar gliders are fixated, frightened, scared, threatened, whatever you want to call it, they will flock together for safety in numbers where they can. This immediately breaks down the normal smell and territorial barriers and allows the animals to become immediately socialized without the expected fussing, fighting or possible wounds which of course are highly stressful."
"PROCEDURE
What I am wondering is, why post anonymously? If you feel that this method is okay, why hide? I am with Wintersong, if you are going to take a stand and say this method is safe then why are you saying it anomyously? Really, if you believe in something show yourself. This is a dangerous method. I don't get it. There are other much less traumatizing ways to intro gliders. In the wild gliders are scent driven. Period. They don't come together in a colony out of fear. This is definitely an unnatural way to intro and it isn't humane in my opinion either. Wow, way to go people. Anyone want to buy the Brooklyn bridge, I'll sell it to you cheap! hpyhwn2003 Glider HI, USA 87 Posts I would never use this method to introduce gliders. Bonding both to a human and to another glider should be based on trust not fear. This method can lead to sick gliders plain and simple no matter how warm the room and water is. A small draft catches them and they'll catch a cold or worse. quote:
Originally posted by Dahlia_2020
I will say that both times though, it didn't end with just the shower. After everyone being in the pouch for a little while (first time is was a couple of hours, second time it was about 7 hours) there was one glider (different one each time) that would start picking at one of the new gliders. Not viciously, but an obvious attempt to push that glider from the pouch even though it had accepted one of the other newcomers. When that happened, I used an improvised version of that pouch (can't for the life of me remember the name of it at the moment) that was basically just a bonding pouch but it had two sections in it. So you could put one glider on one side and one on the other so they would be able to stay together in the pouch without being able to hurt one another because there is a layer of fleece and/or mesh inbetween them. Thus forcing them to get used to each other's scents and finally come to the conclusion that maybe a new playmate isn't such a bad thing after all. Once a glider gets used to another glider's scent being in the colony pouch, it does make a difference and becomes familiar.
Seems to me the method didn't work and you had to revert to "old" bonding mathods of having the gliders in a double bonding pouch while they sleep during the day anyway. So my questions is... Why on earth should we wet them down just to end up going back to safer and more humane methods in the long run? KneeLee Super Glider USA 333 Posts Okay. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. Obviously the way it looks like virtual driver soaked her glider is NOT how it's suppost to work. A "light spray" is how I gathered it was supposed to work... not drowning it. I don't think it's animal abuse&& to be honest I think everyone is taking it a little far by saying it's "disturbing" &&whatnot. It's for EXTREME cases, not for introducing one glider to another. Maybe everyone needs to keep that in mind. thefotokat Glider 177 Posts I do not agree with this treatment for any reason. Some gliders simply do not want to be with certain other gliders. Introductions should never be forced to make life easier for us. I constantly tell people that when you add gliders to your home, you should be prepared to care for those gliders as a separate colony forever if they do not want to join an established colony. While it may be possible to force an animal to live with others, it should not be done. A glider forced to live in a cage with others it does not accept greatly increases the chances for illness and other issues. I am also a rescue and sanctuary and I have never forced gliders to colonize. My workload would be a lot less if I could introduce some of my pairs together to reduce cage numbers, but I did not become a rescue to make my life easier. I did it to make gliders' lives safer. No glider should ever be deliberately stressed. That's my opinion. KuroNeko Fuzzy Wuzzy  USA 1617 Posts Honestly people, step back! This method was done as a LAST RESORT. And I would only recommend this as a LAST RESORT. You CANNOT tell me these gliders were FORCED to live with each other because if they hadn't accepted each other obviously they would be fighting! The ONLY concern that came to mind with this method was ears drying out and crumbling off since that happened to one of our members who's gliders fell in the toilet. If re-homing can be prevented, why not take advantage of that. It was successful for Ed, and I trust his judgment as a rescue. OBVIOUSLY the idiot on FB misunderstood and made a mistake. The journal is crystal, but apparently there is always room for misinterpretation. I repeat, this is a LAST RESORT method. Here's a quote from Terry's Journal Comments: quote:
Kazko
I understand your feelings. However, consider the stress and cruelness of putting two animals together that then ball up and fight. The intent is to mitigate this possibility to highly increase the success rate. It's cruel to restrain your animal for nail trimming or to draw blood, but as owners we do it.
fuzzbuttzmom Starting Member 1 Posts I'm sorry there is NO excuse for this abuse!!!!!!!!that is like saying the kids dont get along cage them , put them in a shower for an hour. You cant make Gliders get along. If you dont have the room and cages, DONT GET MORE Sugar Gliders !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think animal control should be called !!!!!I dont care if they were told to do this, do research, ask other opions, I am just SICK TO MY STOMACH for these babys. You dont deserve to have them This is the Facebook posting I saw it on. I will continue to pray for these babys and all that have STUPID Owners. Error, missing URL.
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She would crab every time the other came near. It was horrible. I felt sooo guilty! When I intoduce the pouch, neither went in it. Finally Kiwi (who's pouch protective)did go in & stuck her head back out & had the meanest face. She would not allow Lady in the pouch. 
