Suz and Karen (TGI) at the Roundup

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />Suz and Karen (TGI) at the Roundup
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A*W*E*S*O*M*E!

I am in diet limbo at the moment but I do think I want to at least offer this as maybe a snack or treat.

I specifically quoted him the Gerber link. This was his response.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Friday, 9 March 2012

Mr. Rich -

Thank you! I find this very enlightening!

I will be calling the US distributor.

Arrowroot "cookies" in America are something made for toddlers.
Americans love to put iron in anything that is intended for a baby! Do you feel that the amount of iron is acceptable for a glider? Are the other values acceptable?
http://www.gerber.com/AllStages/products/snacks/arrowroot_cookies.aspx


From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 8, 2012 7:26:06 PM CST

Hi Alden,

I wouldn’t recommend using a fortified baby biscuit as food for gliders. Just a normal plain cookie wouldn’t have as much iron. The arrowroot biscuits we get here in Australia are not fortified for babies – I probably should delete reference to them for our US customers!

Regards,

Gordon<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ko might be able to clarify which brand, but since my hubby is an Aussie living here in the USA, I order things through a website like Vegemite, cookies, etc. Here is a link to the Arnotts Arrowroot Biscuit:

http://www.simplyoz.com/products/australian_foods/tim_tams__biscuits__crackers__cookies/plain_biscuits/arnotts_milk_arrowroot

Hopefully Ko might come along and tell us if this brand is acceptable. I know there are different brands for the Arrowroot Biscuits in Oz, but I thought I would show you that you can order these here in the USA for pretty cheap actually.

Side note: If you want to order some cookies for yourself (human consumption) from that website, the Tim Tams are awesome!!

Ok, these are the ones I was looking at...

http://www.giftespot.com/arrowroot-cookies-maple-5-oz-healthy-times.html

Here's the ing. list....

Ingredients:
Organic whole oat flour, organic whole grain barley flour, organic cold pressed safflower oil and/or organic sunflower oil, organic evaporated unrefined cane juice, organic unsulphured molasses, organic arrowroot flour, natural flavors, aluminum free baking soda, mixed tocopherols (vitamin E).

Calcium carbonate, vitamin A (palmitate), niacin (B3), electrolytic iron, zinc, riboflavin (B2).


Input please....

Those sound better than the other ones. You don't have to use arrowroot cookies if you don't want to. Honey or fruit juice/green juice also works. The cookie is mostly used for a way to get them to eat more of the solution.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />Suz and Karen (TGI) at the Roundup
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


A*W*E*S*O*M*E!

I am in diet limbo at the moment but I do think I want to at least offer this as maybe a snack or treat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Shame on you! Feeding Suz and Karen as treats!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by viciousencounters</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyro298</i>
<br />Suz and Karen (TGI) at the Roundup
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


A*W*E*S*O*M*E!

I am in diet limbo at the moment but I do think I want to at least offer this as maybe a snack or treat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Shame on you! Feeding Suz and Karen as treats!
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LOL Vicious! You slay me!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JazzNZoeysmom</i>
<br />Ok, these are the ones I was looking at...

http://www.giftespot.com/arrowroot-cookies-maple-5-oz-healthy-times.html

Here's the ing. list....

Ingredients:
Organic whole oat flour, organic whole grain barley flour, organic cold pressed safflower oil and/or organic sunflower oil, organic evaporated unrefined cane juice, organic unsulphured molasses, organic arrowroot flour, natural flavors, aluminum free baking soda, mixed tocopherols (vitamin E).

Calcium carbonate, vitamin A (palmitate), niacin (B3), electrolytic iron, zinc, riboflavin (B2).


Input please....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The ingredients list doesn't help. I need the nutrition label.

Jazz - Those are the ones that are $3.10 for 5 oz.

The ones I linked to, which are "too expensive" are $3.67 for 8 oz.

So it sounds to me like the "cookie" is more like a filler? So really it isn't any different than pouring a staple mix over a few pellets. Which in turn the pellets would be the equivelant to the carnivore diet that they use over there?

I feed a few pellets (Happy Glider Chicken) sprinkled on top of my Complete a few times a week. My gliders love their pellets wether they are soaked in Complete or dry.

In my opinion most of our diets are no different than what they are doing, the only difference is that they have more natural foods that we can't get here. But if you think about it ours really arent any different. And I am talking about ALL of our diets here in the US.

I think the big differences here are:
1) MUCH less honey. It is a digestible ingredient for gliders, and they do enjoy it. However, gliders fed a diet with larger amounts of honey don't seem to willingly eat fruits as much. In my opinion, fruits are another digestible ingredient which gliders enjoy, yet have many other nutrients.

2) No eggs - eggs are both fatty and have dilute proteins.

3) No bee pollen - which is apparently difficult for gliders to digest, making it a protein source which is not nutritionally available to them.

4) Simplicity - this is a very basic, yet complete diet that I can mix up fresh each night. For those people who do not wish to feed HPW Complete for whatever reason, this is a great option. Personally, I believe in the Wombaroo product, and that's why I was still feeding Original HPW. Since the HPW Complete has no Wombaroo product, I haven't fed it and will not.

5) This form of feeding was developed with the input of several scientists, veterinarians and people with other advanced degrees. They are also people who study the nutritional needs of marsupials in a country with many native marsupials. Maybe it is just me - but I see that as advice I would like to take about feeding my gliders.

Ko - a carer in Australia - has put input on the thread on GG. Since he (is Ko a he or a she?) is also someone with on-the-ground, hands-on experience with gliders in Australia, this is another source of input I personally value over the input of American lay-people.

Just about... uh ... 0% of the diet is made up of "natural foods we can't get here."

I'm not really concerned about whether anyone jumps on board or not! I had done some leg-work with this, and had learned information I haven't seen posted anywhere else. I post entirely to let others know these things I learned. After that, do with it what you will! If you are happy with the diet you are feeding, please don't change!

If, like me, you were continuing to wonder and question and want more for your gliders, you might consider giving this a try.

All I'm waiting for is the wombaroo to come in, then I will jump right onto that bandwagon. I'm pretty positive my gliders won't eat the biscuit with the wombaroo, so I'm going to try using green juice instead.
Any idea of how long the HPS lasts in the fridge? I want to make sure it doesn't spoil quickly..

I think we have different idea's of what Mr. Rich's emails actually said. I have read them as well and didn't interept it any way that you did Alden. I'm not understanding where you had gotten the information that you did from the same email's that I read. Could you please clarify or post the original email in its entirety so that others can make their own opinions based off the whole conversation between you and Mr. Rich? Rather than the bits and pieces you chose to quote.

I'm lazy today, This is a copy over from GC.

It was brought to my attention today a demonstration of this diet was done at the RRR yesterday in which Suz and Karen Milas used Gerber fortified cookies which are/were deemed to be unhealthy in this diet. These women put on this demonstration for both new and old owners and people tend to look up to them both as "elders". It's safe to assume now that people will be looking at this as the way to go and will cause harm to their gliders (given the added happy responses on GG today). I saw this coming but never expected it to first come from 2 people that would have directly read the emails which I have read myself and it specifically says not to use these and why they shouldn't be used.

That being said, Alden I have a few things I want to ask you.

1.) I do not see where Rich makes the recommendation to omit water and replace part or whole with green juice. I see only the mention of green juice when dissecting your modified version of Peggy's HPW diet. Is there part of the email here missing?

2.) I don't see where a specific dry food is recommended over the small carnivore diet. Once again only a dissection of each and then of course the obvious business mans pat on the back appraisal of the Wombaroo brand. Is something missing here too?

3.) I don't see a dissection of Peggy's HPW diet only of your own Modified version. He didn't even touch hers. To which he didn't necessarily yah or nah your own diet. Is something missing here?

4.) I see he says the use of the added calcium powder is not required given the appropriate Ca:P is a 1.5:1 - 2:1. Which when properly calculated the OHPW gives a 2:1 and can fluctuate depending upon fruits and veggies used. Did I miss something here to?

5.) Would you be so kind as to post an attachment of the actual guideline you were provided with, one that isn't altered by your own notes or his as you put it?

6.) Why didn't you inform readers that Rich omitted the arrowroot cookie from the guideline he sent you and encouraged you to share that?

7.) In looking at the acronyms used in the emails, I think it's safe to put to rest now that Peggy never stole a product name from a company? Rich consistently refers to the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement as HPS and not HPW. Would it not be feasible to assume HPS is used everyday there?

I took your recommendation and fired off an email of my own with the same questions I've just asked you plus a few additional ones. I can't wait to see those answers.

I have something else I wanna ask real quick that has weighed on my mind the last few days... Aren't our founding gliders originally from Indonesia? Wouldn't that potentially alter their needs being Indonesia isn't Australia? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Didn't Marz once say that the sugar gliders in Australia are a different sub species than the ones we have here in the United States? Wouldn't that then too make their needs and requirements different?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grace</i>
<br /> The cookie is mostly used for a way to get them to eat more of the solution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I've never needed a cookie with OHPW or HPW Complete to get them to lick their bowls clean.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Grace</i>
<br /> The cookie is mostly used for a way to get them to eat more of the solution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I've never needed a cookie with OHPW or HPW Complete to get them to lick their bowls clean.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's because they contain a bunch of honey. WHPS doesn't to. That's why it's suggested that it be served on the biscuit (cookie). That is what was said in the email, wasn't it? It needed to be made more palatable.

I still am an avid believer that if your bowls are continually licked clean there is a problem. Sorry, food manufacturers put high fructose corn syrup in our food to get our bodies to not realize they are full. I'm not saying those diets have that in them. I am saying that our gliders are either 1. still hunger after finishing their portion OR 2. they don't realize they should be full. Just sayin'.

Alden, this seems like a really interesting diet system. I am definitely going to have to see how the girls like it. Wouldn't it be ironic if the perfect no mess no fuss diet had been sitting under our noses all along? If I were to add honey or a fruit juice in place of water would this omit the biscuit?

Thank you :]

I've never tasted the HPS by itself so yeah I can guess that it might need to be more palatible. Never thought of it that way. Thank you Tracy!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by newby</i>
<br />I've never tasted the HPS by itself so yeah I can guess that it might need to be more palatible. Never thought of it that way. Thank you Tracy!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Welcome.

Finessa - I look forward to your response! Please share what he says when he replies!

What is the "W" for in HPW? I thought it was for a company name. Specifically - the company Wombaroo. Which would be one version of trading on another company's reputation.

I could call any diet I invented "Finessa's Glider Diet," I suppose - by your logic.

It's been stated many times across many forums HPW meant "Here's Peggy's Way"

You can choose to name a diet after me if you wish, just be sure to spell my name correctly please. It's 2 n's

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br />It's been stated many times across many forums HPW meant "Here's Peggy's Way"

You can choose to name a diet after me if you wish, just be sure to spell my name correctly please. It's 2 n's
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

can you show us a post from back when peggy named the diet and her stating this is what HPW stand for? that would be great if you could.

I wasn't around back then nor do I care to go hunting for the name of acronyms at the moment. I can however ask Peggy to point it out after she's had the Master Minion beauty sleep she just left for. I know what has been posted during the last 3 years and what she has called her diet directly to me. If you want to dig by all means grab your shovel!

Finnessa and Sherri - I observe that you ladies are very loyal to Peggy. She should certainly sleep well knowing the two of you have her back!

However, I'm not taking Peggy or HPW on here. It was not my intention. I personally have been on a glider diet quest, and I posted what I've learned. It is my hope that others may find the discussion interesting.

However - randomly grasping at straws, throwing up any possible argument no matter how petty in an attempt to defend both a person and a diet that wasn't ever attacked is tedious, transparent and annoying.

Shadow - there are FAR more posts where it is stated, by The Creator, that HPW was named for the Wombaroo powder. I'm sure Finnessa is aware of that. I know you are also.

If anyone has any further questions with which I can be of assistance, please let me know. I've posted what I intended to post. I welcome any further questions from people who are genuinely interested. However, at this point, I've pretty much exhausted all my information, and I'd most likely direct your questions to the Wombaroo company. I'm not really interested in entertaining questions from those looking to pick a fight.

If anyone does ask questions of the Wombaroo company, please come back and post their answers! It would be educational for all of us, and I'm very interested.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br />I wasn't around back then nor do I care to go hunting for the name of acronyms at the moment. I can however ask Peggy to point it out after she's had the Master Minion beauty sleep she just left for. I know what has been posted during the last 3 years and what she has called her diet directly to me. If you want to dig by all means grab your shovel!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
i been, havent found anything and GC's search only goes back 2 years. but if she can give us a link to that post around the time she created it and named the diet that would help a lot.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
<br /> the Master Minion <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is a contradiction in terms. One can either be a Master or a Minion.

The word Minion is rather interesting. It comes from the same source as "filet mignion." It specifically refers to the humans under another person's thrall as being "tasty, tender morsels."

Just thought I'd share. I find it amusing.

Perhaps you meant the Master of the Minions?

Good read, thanks for the post

I've been looking into the edible flowers. I have a list (thinks I found on the 'ok for gliders' list and that are things I feel can't be confused for another plant that is called by the same name. Can someone take a look at this and let me know if anyone has given these? I'm nervous about offering them without first hand experience talking.

Baby's breath
bachelor buttons
bottle brush
butterfly bush
dandelion (feel good about these)
forget-me-nots
fuchsia
impatients'
lavender
lilac (is this the bush or flower?)
petunia
phlox
snowball bush
zinnia

Shadow - the connection of High Protein Wombaroo and the diet is very clearly made here... by Peggy, interestingly.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/44784/High_Protein_Supplement#Post44784

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hypnotist321</i>
<br />Good read, thanks for the post

I've been looking into the edible flowers. I have a list (thinks I found on the 'ok for gliders' list and that are things I feel can't be confused for another plant that is called by the same name. Can someone take a look at this and let me know if anyone has given these? I'm nervous about offering them without first hand experience talking.

Baby's breath
bachelor buttons
bottle brush
butterfly bush
dandelion (feel good about these)
forget-me-nots
fuchsia
impatients'
lavender
lilac (is this the bush or flower?)
petunia
phlox
snowball bush
zinnia
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I personally already make organic sprouts and feed those to my gliders twice a week. Those would certainly be a good replacement for the "fresh eucalyptus growth" that gliders like.

Also - don't forget pansys and nasturtium. Those are easy to grow and are edible. Oh - and hibiscus.

I don't feel good about lilac - some species of lilac are toxic.