Poll Question: This is an open question to the community at large specifically asking at what age do you think pulling a joey to be on its own is appropriate? Please support your thoughts in some manner even if it is just personal experience from breeding. Personally, I think 8 weeks is not acceptable and anything less is simply animal abuse. However, I have not been able to choose a number on my own. Choices: 6 weeks 8 weeks 10 weeks 12 weeks 14 weeks 16 weeks 18 weeks 20 weeks 22 weeks longer

Isn't it like, 2 weeks after they open their eyes???

Just kidding, but seriously that is what a breeder told me once. It was really sad how young she was separating the joeys from their parents.

With that I have heard that 12-14 weeks old is optimal

In my opinion, I would say 16 weeks is best. Through raising my own joeys for a family colony, 12 weeks should be the bare minimum when they are weaned and now truly learning the dynamics of the colony and proper interaction and socialization. All of my joeys once they were 16 weeks really came out of their shell and started exploring on their own, not that they weren't before (they were a bit wary of new things), without worrying about something new or where mom or dad were. I believe 16 weeks is optimal to allow proper development and growth and also to allow them to be able to handle being on their own or introduced to other gliders in a new home. Whereas, at 8 weeks they are still discovering the world only to be separated and thrown into a new environment without having sufficient time to explore their current environment.

Just from having joeys born here (only 2 but at separate times), I did notice them both nursing up through 12 weeks.

I said 10, but it really depends on the joey IMO. I've also never had joeys (I don't plan on it either) but I think as long as the joey is done nursing then it may be acceptable around 10 weeks, but again that's just my opinion without any experience on the matter.

Based on what I have learned since I have been here, I would say 12 weeks.

However, I have no personal experience.

I guess in my mind, it would make sense to leave them with their parents as long as possible though unless they need to be pulled for their own health or safety.

I feel it depends on the joey(s). IF they are fully weaned, and independent (by independent I mean, eating, drinking, pooping, peeing, and doing everything on their own) then they can go home at 8 weeks. BUT, that is only under certain circumstances, and I would honestly prefer to wait. IMO, I feel they should be no younger than 10 weeks.

I personally would not keep them past 12 weeks, because then you run into issues of them being able to potentially mate. And if the joeys are being sold as breeders, then obviously you wont be neutering. And if you plan to continue to breed the parents, then you obviously wont be neutering the dad either. So 10 to 12 weeks is where I feel most comfortable rehoming them.

I obviously wouldn't do anything I could to get them out of my house by 12 weeks, but I prefer keeping them with the parents until they go home especially if it was a lone joey.

Should the joey(s) stay with me past 12 weeks, then I would feel most comfortable separating them from the parents.

I hope this made sense I'm so tired right now haha.

Good question. I have a 4 month OOP joey and twin 7 week OOP joeys. Several weeks ago the oldest joey, female, started trying to "take over" the cage as far as dominance. If I had a buddy for her I would take her out now so that the dynamics of the cage would stay as they were. I'm going to wait till 16-18 OOP weeks before moving anyone, if I do move them at all. Because in the wild that would be their time to branch out and make that new family for themselves. (Within the colony I'd guess, but you know what I mean). It seems they start getting a bit bossy and pushy at that stage. lol

Does anyone know how or why 8 weeks has become the normal age recommended? Seems like maybe it was pulled from the norm in dogs/cats? Even though we are learning benefits of them staying with mom & siblings longer for them as well. I can see the need to separate before 12 weeks so that a son doesn't impregnate his mother, but I too think 8 weeks seems early especially after reading all these replies from breeders who have seen joeys nursing longer than that.

I know the breeder I got two of my joeys from held onto them longer due to the confidence level of one of the joeys and I also asked her to wait to neuter until at least 10 weeks, but I ended up not getting him until they were 12 weeks. So having a breeder hold onto pet males at least could be advantageous to be able to neuter them before they leave.

Being a breeder, I've seen 8 weeks as an acceptable age based on the joeys born here. Each joey is judged on an individual basis and I've had joeys stay with their parents until 14 weeks. It just depends on how they wean. I've even had joeys that could have easily been ready to leave at 6 weeks- although we never separate until at least 8. I've known some breeders that have had a problem with accidental inbreeding when left until 12 weeks. Some joeys ARE ready to breed at that age. So here, 8 weeks is the minimum (and the majority)- but if they joey is not ready, we will not force the issue and we let THEM tell US.

Thank you, RandE! I agree. I've had multiple experiences when the parents have become a bit aggressive towards the joey at around 8 to 9 weeks - and, in the wild, would probably be attempting to drive it out of the colony.

I've had joeys out and around exploring the cage and playing and sampling the adult food as early as 4 weeks. Not that I'd EVER separate them that young! But that is something to look for that this joey has confidence and may be wanting to separate earlier rather than later.

I've had other joeys that I haven't seen even starting to wean at 6 weeks. Never seen them out playing. Never seen them sampling food. Always see them hiding in the sleeping pouch with dad.

There really isn't a "set in stone" age - however, for the most part, 8 weeks is pretty good. When the joeys are twins, separating them together into a smaller "adjustment cage" is easy - they have one another, and I've never had twins continue to call out for their parents if separated together. With single joeys, it is a bit trickier. They tend to be clingier, as a general rule. So they usually need more time with mom and dad. Even if I see they have weaned, I will sometimes put the same-sex parent in the "adjustment cage" for a night or two, leaving the joey with just one parent as it adjusts to a gradual separation.

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Originally posted by RandE

Being a breeder, I've seen 8 weeks as an acceptable age based on the joeys born here. Each joey is judged on an individual basis and I've had joeys stay with their parents until 14 weeks. It just depends on how they wean. I've even had joeys that could have easily been ready to leave at 6 weeks- although we never separate until at least 8. I've known some breeders that have had a problem with accidental inbreeding when left until 12 weeks. Some joeys ARE ready to breed at that age. So here, 8 weeks is the minimum (and the majority)- but if they joey is not ready, we will not force the issue and we let THEM tell US.

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Can you elaborate on your criteria to determine when they are ready? Just curious how people are determining when joeys are ready beyond being weaned.

Petluv - do you breed? Will you?

It is something you see and know. A maturity and independence level. A confidence.


Edited to add: rereading - I didn't mean my question to sound at all snotty. Not saying "if you don't breed, you don't know!" But I'm saying - yeah - if you don't breed, it is really difficult to explain. You know it when you see it. It isn't as abrupt as when a baby bird fledges and leaves the nest - there, then gone. But, it is almost that clear.

Granted I only have one breeding pair at the moment, I do not wean until they are at least 10 weeks old.

I haven't seen my joeys coming out and exploring until they are about 7 weeks of age. I do not believe in rushing them.

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Originally posted by valkyriemome

Thank you, RandE! I agree. I've had multiple experiences when the parents have become a bit aggressive towards the joey at around 8 to 9 weeks - and, in the wild, would probably be attempting to drive it out of the colony.

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Originally posted by hypnotist321
I'm going to wait till 16-18 OOP weeks before moving anyone, if I do move them at all. Because in the wild that would be their time to branch out and make that new family for themselves. (Within the colony I'd guess, but you know what I mean). It seems they start getting a bit bossy and pushy at that stage.

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You have to remember in the wild, breeding seasons are predefined and usually only part of the year....so there is at least six months or more before a new breeding season might see young rejected or leave the family colony. Since, a colony can have one or more nesting places in their territory, quite often the young don't even leave or get rejected from the entire colony at all. Nothing unusual in winter to see two or three males with their females all sleeping together as that as the overall colony comes together to keep warm. Come spring and warmer weather, they will naturally seperate into smaller groups again. Usually this is due to the breeding seasn but often due to the warmer weather again.

Gliders in Australia (probably because most of them are kept outdoors like their wild counterparts) don't become sexually mature to 12 months - 2 years of age.

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Originally posted by petluv15

Does anyone know how or why 8 weeks has become the normal age recommended? Seems like maybe it was pulled from the norm in dogs/cats? Even though we are learning benefits of them staying with mom & siblings longer for them as well. I can see the need to separate before 12 weeks so that a son doesn't impregnate his mother, but I too think 8 weeks seems early especially after reading all these replies from breeders who have seen joeys nursing longer than that.

I know the breeder I got two of my joeys from held onto them longer due to the confidence level of one of the joeys and I also asked her to wait to neuter until at least 10 weeks, but I ended up not getting him until they were 12 weeks. So having a breeder hold onto pet males at least could be advantageous to be able to neuter them before they leave.

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I've only had 1 joey that's finish weening, so I could be wrong, but it seems that they are still nursing and only just 1/2 eating and just learning to get out and about at 8 weeks. The twins are 7 weeks and still nursing.

Since I have seen momma sugar gliders detach their babies at different ages, accordinly to how much fur they have on them.
You have to first decide what oop is.
Is it pinky with no fur?
Is it with a peach fuzz?
Is it when the legs are fully furred?
Is it when their eyes are opened?
When you have a constant then we can decide or change the amount of time babies need with their parents.

I use pinky date, light fur, fully furred and eyes open/or opening. Sometimes all of as dates.
According to what they look like then I decide 10, 12, or more time with parents.
Art

I think the general consensus has always understood OOP to mean when the joey officially detaches from mom's nipple and can be seen from head to toe outside of mom's pouch for the first time.

I know Kyro but I have seen joeys that have no fur and the eyes didn't open for three weeks. Also have had babies that the eyes have opened in three days.

That is a big difference if you re-home babies at a set 8 week mark. In reality it may only be five weeks old if fully furred is what oop babies should look like.
I also have wanted an oop definition change for many years for new breeders. When in public I have many photos of babies and mom and show the differences of how babies can look when mom detaches them.
Art

I'd say 10, but I don't think any joey should be sold to live on it's OWN. I think at 10wk they are old enough to go in a pair or to live with other gliders, I don't think a joey should be sold by itself with the intention of keeping it by itself (even for a few months) until it is at least 4 month old, even better never ... x

Reading this just made me realize how young Rue is. He is about 16 weeks now. When my boyfriend's brother first got him, he was only 7-8 weeks old. They took care of him for about two weeks before they were tired of him. Then I took him in and I've had him for about 6 weeks. Poor Rue. ):

But I think that around 12 weeks is probably best.

I have only one pair that has had joeys, and all but one has stayed here with the family. At 12 weeks they are mostly independent of mom & dad. They no longer seem to follow a parent to run in the wheel or go to the food dish, often they are up early and head for the food ahead of mom and dad by 12 weeks. Younger than 12 weeks they seem to me to still follow their parents more closely often eating with them or sharing a wheel.

We received our first two when they were 8 weeks OOP (at least that's what we were told), they were eating on their own and we spent quite a bit of time handling and just observing them. I spent a while lurking on this site, GC, reading suncoast's newsletters, etc. which were all sites we were given by the breeders we got them from(Sugar Glider Alley in TN who seems to be in some posts lately and not good either), and collecting more information from those who had gliders or seemed to have gone thru experiences and we did not want to learn the hard way with our little ones. We had a total of 7 joeys from or original two and then all males were neutered. Elvis and Priscilla have always been good parents and we never saw any sign of joey loss or abandonment but they were given a larger cage, plenty of food and extra protein. We noticed that by 8 to 9 weeks most of the joeys were eating alongside the parents and spending the night out roaming the cage and playing. I would have to side with those that say at least 10 weeks to be sure and if they show that they were still not ready, wait longer.

Consensus appears to clearly be 12 weeks minimum before rehoming a joey. I have a mind to begin campaigning for just this result. 8 weeks is not enough.

I have to say at least 12 weeks oop. That can vary slightly for me based on their interactions with mom and dad, but it is never less than 11 weeks, or up to 16 weeks. It just depends on the joeys.

How many of the people voting are breeders? How many breed for their own colony, and how many breed for the community?

Hi, I voted 8 weeks. over 50 gliders at my home have gone home at 8 weeks with no problems!!! I see the ones here start coming out to eat at 5 weeks from the plate. At 9 weeks 4 years ago I witnessed a dad push his son out of the pouch, every since then I have an 8 week rule.

Thank you, Cora. I agree.

I've seen over and over where the mom's and dad's get annoyed with joeys between 8-9 weeks. Keeping them after that point is dangerous for the joeys.

The only exception to that is if I get the dad neutered so there are no further joeys in pouch.

I've seen two of my own joeys weaned at about 10 weeks. They very rarely nursed from mom after they tried the hard foods and were exploring on their own.

I think it's terrible to see them taken before 12 weeks, and would love to see them stay with family for a good 14 weeks... but at the same time, it would be sad that the new owners don't get that sweet little joey time.

Still I'd say 12-14 weeks. And if males, after neuter.