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saturngirl Glider   SC, USA
113 Posts
I've had my new suggie girl Sophie for almost 2 months now. I've been swapping out blankies and toys. Also, their cages are side by side. At night when they both wake up Cooper my little guy goes to the side of his cage and looks over at Sophie and makes a clicking type noise to her. Sophie will hiss and bark at Cooper. I've put them in the bathtub for face to face intros and Sophie will attack Cooper then they ball up. Cooper gets so scared that he wets himself. I then have to give him lots of attn to get him to calm down...which I don't mind doing because he's my baby. After this Sophie just wants to be by herself. I want them to be together. Sophie is 2 months younger than Cooper but they are really close to the same size so I don't think that's the issue. I think Sophie is wanting to be the dominant one???
Any ideas what I should do next or what I could do differently???
Last night after cleaning the cages I moved them around a little so that I could cover both cages with a blanket so they can get each other's scent and see each other wherever they are in the cage. Cooper will stick to the side of the cage to look at Sophie and he seems to be excited. Sophie last night was making a displeased sound..like a crabbing noise and would lung and hit the cage ~ Cooper would then make a teeth chattering sound. What does this mean??? Are my 2 not going to get along??? 
Has anyone else had bad intros like this that can shed some light on what I need to do???
kazko Little Bunny FooFoo     TX, USA 6747 Posts Spray them ALL with the mouthwash, especially the aggressors. The point is to oversaturate the nose but to also normalize all of them. You can additionally spritz the bunch with mouthwash for a few days in order to prevent hostilities but pretty much if you manage to get them all into a single nest, they will emerge ok the next evening somewhat normalized in smell. Introductions are a complex thing and do require both parties to be amiable to it. I have seen introductions go south quickly because the newbie is jumpy which freaks out the cage members and they reject. This is why I often suggest adding another layer to introductions for them all to fixate on, so that they are all in the same state of mind. Essentially, if they are all afraid of something else, such as being wet by the shower, they are all fixated on that instead of the new arrival into the mix. So to have a successful introduction, change something for them all, spritz mouthwash on all of their butts and then let them be. A change might be to take the cage outside, or put it somewhere noisy or with new smells. For me, making them seek safe haven while I take a long shower has worked. They all escape to the safe place up high, they all come to the same state of mind and fixate on me and their situation, and they go to each other for safety instead of chasing someone down. That concept is a bit drastic but it has worked for me. Oversaturate their smell, make them all fixate on something else, and before you know it, they'll all be cuddling and much happier for it. quote:
Originally posted by Kazko
Spray them ALL with the mouthwash, especially the aggressors. The point is to oversaturate the nose but to also normalize all of them. You can additionally spritz the bunch with mouthwash for a few days in order to prevent hostilities but pretty much if you manage to get them all into a single nest, they will emerge ok the next evening somewhat normalized in smell.
Introductions are a complex thing and do require both parties to be amiable to it. I have seen introductions go south quickly because the newbie is jumpy which freaks out the cage members and they reject. This is why I often suggest adding another layer to introductions for them all to fixate on, so that they are all in the same state of mind. Essentially, if they are all afraid of something else, such as being wet by the shower, they are all fixated on that instead of the new arrival into the mix.
So to have a successful introduction, change something for them all, spritz mouthwash on all of their butts and then let them be. A change might be to take the cage outside, or put it somewhere noisy or with new smells. For me, making them seek safe haven while I take a long shower has worked. They all escape to the safe place up high, they all come to the same state of mind and fixate on me and their situation, and they go to each other for safety instead of chasing someone down. That concept is a bit drastic but it has worked for me.
Oversaturate their smell, make them all fixate on something else, and before you know it, they'll all be cuddling and much happier for it.
wow... I can't say I've ever heard advice like that for introductions and seems a bit cruel to me...  jacknsally Super Glider TX, USA 285 Posts Mouthwash? Are you kidding me. Do you know how bad that stuff stings a humans mouth, I can't imagine how much that would sting a gliders skin if not burn them. Even the non-alcohol mouthwashes have some sting to them. I've heard of using Vanilla but NEVER mouthwash. Have you tried blankie, pouch and cage swapping? Letting them get familiar with each other's smell by swapping is a great start. Once you see how they react to just each other's smell then you can move on to the neutral(bathtub) introductions. With my intro's, the one's who were upset with a new smell, were the intro's that never did work. One thing to remember, no matter how much you try, no matter what techniques you use, there are times that the intro is just not going to workout. saturngirl Glider SC, USA 113 Posts hey ya'll thanks for the advice. i'm not doing the mouthwash or shower thing...seems harsh to me. i don't want to scare them together or lose what bonding i have with them.  i've tried the blankie and toy swapping, cages side by side and bath tub intros. nothing has worked. so, i've decided to move the cages further apart ~ they are across from each other so they can still see each other and just give the intros a break for a bit. sophie my girl seems to get stressed really easy. she stressed so bad when i got her that she got giardia. so i don't want to over stress her. i'll pick up intros in a few days. Laura_leigh Starting Member 4 Posts Kudos to you for not taking that advice. I'm sorry, but that is one of the most awful things I have heard of! There is a large amount of alcohol and other harmful ingredients in mouthwash that could not only permanently injur gliders, but could KILL THEM! and bringing them together because of fear???? are you kidding me???? Suggies stress out way too much on their own, they don't need any help by making a stressful situation even worse. PocketPrincess Joey 17 Posts I'm glad you didn't listen to Kazko. I wouldn't want mouthwash sprayed on me or my gliders- ouch! Laura_leigh Starting Member 4 Posts No, Eric, I didn't SELL her a glider. I GAVE her a glider. and i carefully screen all homes that my gliders go to. Thanks bunches. Not that its any of your business anyhow. There's a big difference between hearing of it and using it. I hear a lot of things, but doesn't mean I put them all into practice... And I will put this back on topic since Eric so rudely took it off topic, Saturngirl, sometimes it takes a long time for intros to work, so just take it at their pace, and keep switching pouches/blankies/toys, even cages. once they get used to eachother's REAL scent, they will be more likely to accept eachother during playtime. It sounds tome like your boy is willing to give it a shot, but your girl is nervous still... Just give it a couple of weeks and then try moving their cages together again and see how she reacts the next time
jacknsally Super Glider TX, USA 285 Posts quote:
Originally posted by newbie
Everyone on here is so quick to go at each others throats! Take it easy! Advice was asked for and given, you don't have to agree with it, but that's no reason to attack someone who certainly has valuable experience.
Not all advice is good advice. If no one speaks up that it could possibly be bad advice or harm to the suggies- there are so many people who would take the advice and then harm their suggies. Hmm, would you feel this same way if someone asked for advice on neutering and I chimed in and offered some advice on how self neutering with a pocket knife was safe, cheap and the suggies never know it happened (like that would ever happen  just an example). There really are websites out there that do step by step self neutering- it's advice that non knowing newbies could follow if people don't speak up. The quantity of the posts with a member does not mean Quality. I find it appauling that someone would FORCE gliders to be together- one day they'll come back to their natural feelings of not wanting to be together. Just because everything is hunky dory now, does mean they are a MATCH for life. kazko Little Bunny FooFoo TX, USA 6747 Posts The objections here are great. What's better... fighting, drawing blood, amputating tails, animals chasing each other around a cage or spritzing mouthwash on their backsides once to avoid all of that? Hrmmm. We all have points of view and we all have differing levels of crazy when it comes to our pets. What I do works, thats why I do it and offer it to people. I love my sugars but I never lose sight that they are animals, my own pets, and I come first, so I am one that will do what it takes to stop biting, stop fighting, as well as manage the colonies like I see fit. I will always choose the quicker, faster, safer method for getting things done. A spritz on the butt is a much easier and quicker and firmer solution than swapping dirty bedding for two months hoping that they'll fall in love with each other. To be honest, I dont think that even works. Animals arent looking to interact with each others dirty underwear, they want the real thing. I find that scent swapping agitates an alpha male and he goes hunting for the source which is a lost cause at that point. Tigger, I am curious if the mouthwash idea helped yours to come together in the end or if it wore off and failed or some such? Rheasha, who told you to separate the cages and why? PocketPrincess Joey 17 Posts Sometimes, you aren't going to be able to force your suggies to get together. I wouldn't risk harming them with the mouthwash. If they don't want to be together, don't force it. kyro298 Glider Sprinkles CO, USA 15262 Posts As far as the mouthwash goes, there are kinds that are safe for kids to swallow so if I were willing to let my kids have it, I'd be willing to at least try the suggestion for suggies. Also, as stated already, it was advice that was ASKED for. I have no problem with people objecting to what they find/assume questionable but newbie is right, calm down..that isn't helping anyone and drives people away from the post altogether. It was also stated that quantity of posts doesn't equal quality. Well, either does lack of posts equal quality so all you are doing is confusing people. Now, someone has to decide WHO is giving better advice. MY advice? Try what you're are comfortable with AFTER hearing everyone's suggestions. You are getting suggestions from people with gliders and experience with gliders and people experienced in introducing gliders. If you're uncomfortable with a suggestion, move to the next...period. Back to the "posting quantity" comment...if I were a new owner in here reading for advice (which I once was), I would (and did) lean towards accepting the suggestions of someone with hundreds more posts that reacted calmly with specific and tried solutions as opposed to someone with a lot less posts that seemed angry and condemning...Just my honest opinion which I'm always VERY careful at giving. Sorry if that upsets anyone but it's my turn to state my own. Saturngirl, you've been given lots of different types of advice...if you've decided that one way seems more "doable" for you, then go for it. Keep us posted!
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