The scent of another generally causes sugars to hunt for the source. If they cannot reach it they get extremely aggravated over it and it forms a solid memory in their brain which pretty much kills your attempt at an introduction. And to add to that, if they can see the other animal a foot away into another cage and not be able to reach it, they will get aggravated and essentially start hunting and fighting through the cage. I have been looking a long time for a way to merge scent masters and I think I've finally found it. Time will tell as I try to merge more boys in the future.

Definetely use a child safe mouth wash please. I would try intro's while they're both sleepy during the day less likely to fight more likely to just settel down and cuddle I'd try more intro's when they are sleepy just keep a close eye for if they wake up. My girl woke up crabbed and fell asleep . I hope it works out

I used to do the daytime intros as well. Matter of fact, I used to suggest simply dumping the newbie into a sleeping nest. We all know that it takes a bit for sugars to wake up. If the newbie goes in and sleeps, by the time they all wake up, the newbie has a normalized scent. That has worked for me with females, but unfortunately it really is not so simple. These animals are smarter than that. They form distinct memories of each smell, each animal and so forth and they do need to socialize with the newbie before it is all ok. The mouthwash or vanilla extract approach allows them to socialize without having to worry about scent. Once the socialized memory is there, the scent appears to be of lessor importance and all comes together successfully.

I didnt do the whole small cage thing yet, I just tried introducing them with the mouthwash. And it did work. He stoped trying to attack her. Period. I broght the three of them in my room (I left Rosko be as he is still nervous and he didnt handle it well (even with mouthwash) when i tried to put him with everyone) and they played around the room fine. Towards the end Tigger started getting crabby again at her, but it wasnt the same fighting, it was just crabbing at her. I havnt tried it again yet, and hopefully the next time I do I will feel comfortable about putting them in a small cage together for a little while.

I said in my journal entry that I think the small cage really helped a lot with the boys as well in that nobody can stray too far away. They are forced to socialize. If all goes well within 10 minutes in a small cage, then they are probably good then forward.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

I've decided I'm giving the intros a break for this week.

Their cages are now separated but they can still see each other. It's been better since I've separated their cages. Sophie yesterday was playing around on me while I was at my computer and she glided off me over to Cooper's cage and looked up at him and made a zoot/soot type sound. Not sure what this sound is or if it's good or bad??? Of course he was sticking to the bars of the cage looking at her...she then came running back to me and got on my knee and looked over at him again and made the zoot/soot sound again.

Sophie seems to get really stressed at the smallest change. Is their a way that I can get her to over come this??? Maybe if she wasn't as stressed maybe intros would go better for us.

Well when my gliders get on each other's cage they fight and when I seperate them I tend to bleed a lot becuase they go crazy biting, so... thats a good sign for that.

she wasn't on his cage... glided on the floor in front of the cage.

The "soot" sound is not a bad sound. Mine still do that all the time to each other. It almost seems like a social sound like "Here I am" or "Where are you"...definitely not bad. When I first did intros, I heard that noise more than anything along with clicking noises.

The clicking noises are generally bad and I associate those with a hunting state of mind; "I'm looking for something/someone". The hiss hiss is generally a good thing and I associate that with saying their name; "This is me". Hiss hiss is done by all members of a colony and is generally followed by a nosebump and a sniff to verify identity or clan. When introduced, a hiss hiss means the same thing, but it can easily be followed by fighting once identity is verified to NOT be a member of the clan. All of that depends on the receiver. So in general, hiss hiss is a benign verbalization and possibly a good indicator when pairing as usually the sender has good intentions. But, the sender can also be looking for the right reply, and if not given, will attack.

I've always only heard those noises together. I mean, I hear the hissing (soot) all the time but whenever I did hear clicking when we did intros, they were always done together and they were never aggressive or anything. Maybe I'm thinking of a different sound than a click? I still hear it on occasion.

Kazko and Kyra - when you talk about a "clicking" noise - does it sound like out teeth chattering when we are cold???

Kind of...you know that "popping" noise they make when they sleep? It seems like that but much faster.

I think Kazko is talking about the REALLY REALLY LOUD clicking that can be heard across the room and not the chattering/clicking that paired gliders will do.

I've heard Cooper make the teeth chattering sound when Sophie was trying to attack him thru her cage and he was in his cage.
What does this sound mean???

If you ever have joeys, moms teats will get worn and sensitive from nursing and they also begin to bite harder so she will chatter and spasm a lot out of discomfort while nursing. I call that chattering but could be called something else, perhaps shrieking. You will know it when you hear it. You can make something similar by closing your teeth, smash your tongue against your teeth and blow air through your teeth forcefully and then pulse it like a helicopter blade sound. It is an S sound like when you say the word sizzle.

Clicking is an active sound heard across the room and is done with the tongue and the roof of the mouth just like you would do it and is repetitive. Clicking is hunting and is never good. They click when they are after something.

We really need to make a good reference for sounds with quality recordings. Anybody have anything useful?

This is the site I use for sounds, Its not mine, just one that I found on google and I find it quite helpful. It doesnt have the "soom" sound, unless im thinking of something different. Hope it helps :)

Woops it helps if I add the link.

Error, missing URL. /

I think this is a pretty good site for sounds.

www.angelfire.com/nb/sugarglider/sounds/

I pull that site up a lot when friends who are new to gliders come over and have no idea the myriad of sounds gliders make. Some of the definitions might need updated and I would add the short "psst!" sound that they make for example when "you bit me instead of the grape!" or "get your foot outta my eye!" Much shorter than the fighting sound posted on that site. Perhaps with permission of the author we could take the sounds and put them in the gliderpedia?

As far as intros go, I have a new male that I rescued which leaves me with two un-neutered males and one female. Dezi (the female) doesn't seem to mind but Al doesn't want Scuttle (the new guy) around. Unfortunately I have NO place to put the cages other than side by side (one bedroom, very small). They now know his smell, but hopefully this won't affect my future plans too much. I'm going to have Scuttle neutered in 3 weeks (when I am home from school) and the cages can be separated then. After he recovers and his scent glands start to dry up (does anyone know how long this is?) I hope Al won't see him as such a threat anymore. I will then try bathtub introductions and try the diluted mouthwash. They have alcohol free mouthwash and you can dilute it so I don't think it would hurt them too much. The stuff in mouthwash is mainly for killing bacteria and if you get the kids kind it shouldn't be toxic.

Anyway if all else fails with Scuttle I might have to find him a new home because they won't be happy with their cages side by side in my tiny room at college. I was just hoping I could be his forever home instead of him going out over craigslist (I was glider sitting for a friend who was planning to give him away).

Their CHATTERING is what I call clicking which is the offensive posture more often done by the males when hunting or searching and such.

Their CRYING sound is one of my original three recordings on Gliderpedia.

I am wondering if their SINGING sound is actually what I call Chattering when the mother is bothered by the baby biting on the nipple. I missed some great opportunities to record that last month.

CHIRP isnt really a verbalization, but more of a slurp while eating. All animals make eating noises. You should hear Eric.

Terry - you need to tape Eric so we CAN hear him!!!

Here is another link to some sounds:

http://goodgliders.com/sounds.aspx

Saturngirl: It took me over 2 months of working with my 3 girls EVERY evening to get them to like each other. They did ball up and fight a few times in the process - with lots of screaming and crabbing and thankfully - no one hurt. Now - they all 3 love each other and all is well. But Weasel still has to tell off Tilly and Tosca at least once a day. There is nothing physical about it - but she gets pretty loud and it sounds so much like fighting that I always have to check on them when I hear it. And -they all look up at me as if to say "WHAT???"

This is a good audio link. The videos are useful.
[url]http://goodgliders.com/sounds.aspx[/url]

People are interpreting the "[url="http://i214.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid214.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/Stac2goode/MomSinging.flv"]SINGING[/url]" incorrectly. Gliders do not sing and that event is not a cutesy event either it is the mother being extremely agitated at having babies STILL in pouch and on nipple. I have seen it time and time again and am not sure how anyone could interpret that as singing. I am glad to finally get a good example of what folks are calling singing and it is one in the same as I had thought. I call this CHATTERING which may not be a good name. Not a happy thing.

I just played that "SINGING" video for my niece and the first thing she said is that it sounds like something in pain.. Hahahaha a 9 yr old got it right.

quote:

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Originally posted by kyro298

As far as the mouthwash goes, there are kinds that are safe for kids to swallow so if I were willing to let my kids have it, I'd be willing to at least try the suggestion for suggies. Also, as stated already, it was advice that was ASKED for. I have no problem with people objecting to what they find/assume questionable but newbie is right, calm down..that isn't helping anyone and drives people away from the post altogether. It was also stated that quantity of posts doesn't equal quality. Well, either does lack of posts equal quality so all you are doing is confusing people. Now, someone has to decide WHO is giving better advice. MY advice? Try what you're are comfortable with AFTER hearing everyone's suggestions. You are getting suggestions from people with gliders and experience with gliders and people experienced in introducing gliders. If you're uncomfortable with a suggestion, move to the next...period.

Back to the "posting quantity" comment...if I were a new owner in here reading for advice (which I once was), I would (and did) lean towards accepting the suggestions of someone with hundreds more posts that reacted calmly with specific and tried solutions as opposed to someone with a lot less posts that seemed angry and condemning...Just my honest opinion which I'm always VERY careful at giving. Sorry if that upsets anyone but it's my turn to state my own.

Saturngirl, you've been given lots of different types of advice...if you've decided that one way seems more "doable" for you, then go for it. Keep us posted!

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I agree with this totally. I got my gliders because I was supposed to be babysitting them for a little while. I fell in love with them and it looked like the owner really wasn't able to take them back so I hinted that it would be okay to leave them with me. I started reading everything about them and some things I take with a grain of salt. Mostly what I read I do more research on. And I pretty much agree with what Kazko said about the "easier and quicker and firmer solution" after all these are wild animals and they manage to take care of themselves in the wild without our help. My son thinks I have gone a little nutty with a lot of the things I do with them but he was wise when he said get a grip Mom. The dog care books will tell you the same outlandish things and most of it is not all that necessary. I have had dogs all my life and I have read some really silly things about the care of them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rita

Terry - you need to tape Eric so we CAN hear him!!!

Here is another link to some sounds:

http://goodgliders.com/sounds.aspx

Saturngirl: It took me over 2 months of working with my 3 girls EVERY evening to get them to like each other. They did ball up and fight a few times in the process - with lots of screaming and crabbing and thankfully - no one hurt. Now - they all 3 love each other and all is well. But Weasel still has to tell off Tilly and Tosca at least once a day. There is nothing physical about it - but she gets pretty loud and it sounds so much like fighting that I always have to check on them when I hear it. And -they all look up at me as if to say "WHAT???"

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i like this one. very cute

mine give me that WHAT???? look also

"8) Mouthwash: Mouthwash can contain boric acid which is highly toxic to dogs. Symptoms of poisoning by mouthwash include vomiting, drooling, seizures, and coma."

Hmm.. this little quote above came from a website that lists all of the toxic things to have in your house when you own pets. Now, keep in mind that they generally make these lists with DOGS AND CATS in mind.. Now DOGS AND CATS are much MUCH bigger animals. If something like this is toix to them, just IMAGINE how much a little sugar glider would need in order to ingest a toxic amount and become violently ill.

Really, there are much better ways to introduce gliders to each other.

and to answer the question of
"What to do if all else fails?"

KEEP TWO CAGES. Everyone says that when you buy a suggie to be paired with your current gliders, be prepared that they MAY NOT get a long and you MAY need multiple cages. THATS IT.. if you're not prepared for that, DONT GET ANOTHER ONE!!

It is not a natural thing for gliders to be introduced to a strange glider from another "colony" which means that we as their caretakers have to realize that every time we try to introduct our gliders, we are going against nature and that it might not always work for us!!

Owning an exotic pet is a privledge, and if you cant accept the fact that these are NOT domesticated animals, and they WILL have their own instincts. We, as their owners, must do our best to accomodate these creatures and give them the best domesticated lives we can.

http://canine-health-care.com/dog-training-collar/benefit-health-owning-pet.php

Have you checked the boric acid levels in your tap water lately?

We appreciate all of the opinions and points of view here. Keep them coming. Im ok with being called crazy. Everyone here does it.

And dont forget that we have the anonymous posting capability. You are welcome to use it to state your real opinions on a thing but please dont use it to flame, just state facts or opinions which is why we are all here.

LOL, its sorta funny that some people will neuter any animal in a heart beat to "modify their behavior" and not think nothing of it. And when someone suggests another method(that doesn't include surgery)they get bashed on 2 different web sites. And then ask to have it locked. That wasn't nice saturngirl.

Catman - Well said! Thank you.

Yep - that post is now gone. The only reason I can think of for someone to start all that drama is to make themselves look good by cutting someone else down. (there seems to be a lot of that in the glider community)

Saturngirl, you should have had the courage to say what you thought of the advice here where you got it. IF bad advice is given, what good does it do to go to a different forum??? You seemed so worried that someone new would come here and take it as gospel. If you are THAT concerned about anyone else's suggies being tortured, sprayed with alcohol, force fed soy or whatever - you need to post it HERE where they would see both points of view. Then they can make up their own minds how to proceed. Only makes sense to me...

I've seen quite a few "over there" that said our advice "over here" was either not helpful or just bad. Funny, that's why I'm here and not there. I even saw one where I had personally given advice and I've never said anything someone would consider extreme or bad, yet it appeared on another site in another post. I just don't care. I know that was off topic, sorry...